Synthesizers and such

[not_so_new]

Hi all.

So I want to learn a little about Synthesizers, I have been out of that game for a few years (when I get the chance to play keys it is usually piano or organ now-a-days) and I know things change pretty quickly in that arena.

Specifically I am looking for the keyboard sounds that are used in heavier stuff like Nine Inch Nails. What would I look for, what would I stay away from, what is the deal with soft synths vs. hardware etc.

Thanks!!!

[r0ck1r0ck2]

well Nine" Nails used a ton of synths no?
i'm sure there are tons of synth lists for that band...

but i always seem to hear a dx-7 in there...
metalic slash...
oberheims? theres this single space analogue oberheim that pretty cheap..
moogey fuzzy basses...

don't care for too many soft synths...because i like toob amps with keys...bla$ting you dig..

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Specifically I am looking for the keyboard sounds that are used in heavier stuff like Nine Inch Nails. What would I look for, what would I stay away from, what is the deal with soft synths vs. hardware etc.

Thanks!!!

A place to start is to go buy a computer and get Reaktor 5.


Reaktor 5 is by far the coolest and most creative synth/sample program by far.


Its also probably one of the most difficult to learn.


The synth/fx ensembles that are out there are mind blowing.


Trent as well as a lot of different guys use it for sounds.

[not_so_new]

Thanks guys.

So call me old school (because I am to a degree) but how do you use soft synths like Reaktor 5? Can they be used in the same computer along side say Samplitude? How do you get the "sounds" out of the soft synth into Samp? Is it better to run a separate computer? In that case I need a whole new set of converters then.... kind of confused here. (I know, I know read up more on the Reaktor 5 site)



Thanks again.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by r0ck1r0ck2

well Nine" Nails used a ton of synths no?
i'm sure there are tons of synth lists for that band...

but i always seem to hear a dx-7 in there...
metalic slash...
oberheims? theres this single space analogue oberheim that pretty cheap..
moogey fuzzy basses...

don't care for too many soft synths...because i like toob amps with keys...bla$ting you dig..

Cool man.... I had a really cool Oberheim Matrix6 back in the day, way cool. I forget how much I got for it back then and I know that I miss the board more than what ever I spent the cash on. Goes to show, never sell gear, even if you think you are not going to use it!!!! GGGGGrr....

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Hi all.

So I want to learn a little about Synthesizers, I have been out of that game for a few years (when I get the chance to play keys it is usually piano or organ now-a-days) and I know things change pretty quickly in that arena.

Specifically I am looking for the keyboard sounds that are used in heavier stuff like Nine Inch Nails. What would I look for, what would I stay away from, what is the deal with soft synths vs. hardware etc.

Thanks!!!

Ok, finally a question for me!

Are you going for old analog synths or new? If you are going for new, then look at these:

Access Virus (A,B,C or TI) - Can produce a lot of sound - fat sounding - on board effects.
Clavia Nord Lead (1,2,3) - Espeacially good at FM modulated wierd sounds - A little thinner sounding then the Virus - no effects.
Clavia Nord Modular - Good for everything, but timeconsuming to program.

If you are buying old synths the check these out:

OSCar - The king of producing aggresive, squeeling sounds.
Korg MS20 - Verry good at metallic modulated sounds.
Obeheim (2 voice, four voice) - Not a lot of paramaters but the best fatest sound.

If you want more info just ask!

/Cojo

[not_so_new]

Thanks Cojo

Well like I said I am looking for sounds NIN'ish, is he using older sounds or newer stuff?

Also I do have a question about soft synths...

Originally Posted by not_so_new

So call me old school (because I am to a degree) but how do you use soft synths like Reaktor 5? Can they be used in the same computer along side say Samplitude? How do you get the "sounds" out of the soft synth into Samp? Is it better to run a separate computer? In that case I need a whole new set of converters then.... kind of confused here. (I know, I know read up more on the Reaktor 5 site)

Thanks again.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

oh and i finally tried out the Dave Smith Evolver...
newer version w/keyz...really freaky... i could see getting some good sounds out of that bastard..

and the Matrixs are going for around $300 for keys
and much less for the rackmount Matrix 1000..
CHEAP!!

[r0ck1r0ck2]

i would assume you would do it on the same comput0R....
samplitude uses VST? i dunno
i would be shocked if it wouldn't work...

you won't need 2 compuT0Rs...no way..

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by r0ck1r0ck2

i would assume you would do it on the same comput0R....
samplitude uses VST? i dunno
i would be shocked if it wouldn't work...

you won't need 2 compuT0Rs...no way..

Yep Samp is VST, I just have no idea how to get the two to work together. *shrug* Does something like Access Virus or Reaktor show up as a plug-in? Really I know allot about computers and allot about recording but when it comes to MIDI and softsynths I am just confused to all hell and back (in fairness to me, I know how MIDI should work but it rarely comes out that way in the wash if ya know what I mean).

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by r0ck1r0ck2

...

you won't need 2 compuT0Rs...no way..

You might to if you want to run Reaktor or a Gigasampler.


Even though i use a Mac to make music, i have a suped up PC just to run Reaktor,Wavelab and Fruity Loops.


Reaktor is a processor hog.


If you want to run multiple ensembles it taxes the computer immensely.


And yeah you can run it simultaneously with Samplitude.

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Yep Samp is VST, I just have no idea how to get the two to work together. *shrug* Does something like Access Virus or Reaktor show up as a plug-in? Really I know allot about computers and allot about recording but when it comes to MIDI and softsynths I am just confused to all hell and back (in fairness to me, I know how MIDI should work but it rarely comes out that way in the wash if ya know what I mean).

I don't know Samplitude, but Reaktor and many other soft-synths come both as stand-alone applications and as plug-ins in the same purchase.

They usually have install instructions and yes, when used within an application, they appear just like a plug-in, usually on an auxiliary input.

All you need to do is make output assignments (like bussing to a track for printing) and also route MIDI to the plug-in from an external controller.

[not_so_new]

Great guys thanks (even after how long I have been here I am continually surprised how much this place rocks!!).


So to combine Thrill's and StoneinaPond's last posts. So it looks like I can use it as a VST plug-in with Samp but something like Reaktor will be pretty hard to use with a large project, that might push the limits of my processor. If that is the case is there any way to "record" the sound of the soft snyth somehow to make it a .wav file and free up some CPU cycles?

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Great guys thanks (even after how long I have been here I am continually surprised how much this place rocks!!).

So to combine Thrill's and StoneinaPond's last posts. So it looks like I can use it as a VST plug-in with Samp but something like Reaktor will be pretty hard to use with a large project, that might push the limits of my processor. If that is the case is there any way to "record" the sound of the soft snyth somehow to make it a .wav file and free up some CPU cycles?

Hate to quote myself, but put it on an auxiliary input and....

Originally Posted by stoneinapond

....All you need to do is make output assignments (like bussing to a track for printing) ....

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Great guys thanks (even after how long I have been here I am continually surprised how much this place rocks!!).


So to combine Thrill's and StoneinaPond's last posts. So it looks like I can use it as a VST plug-in with Samp but something like Reaktor will be pretty hard to use with a large project, that might push the limits of my processor. If that is the case is there any way to "record" the sound of the soft snyth somehow to make it a .wav file and free up some CPU cycles?

Yeah i am pretty sure you will want to track it.


I would probably suggest to get a demo on it.

It really is an amazing sonic tool.

It will change your view of synths in general.

The ensembles out there are amazing.

I trade them all the time with people all over the world.

Some of the best comes from Europe(where the best Electronica is done).

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by StoneinaPond

Hate to quote myself, but put it on an auxiliary input and....

Oooops.... (rubs foot on the ground in front of him) Sorry....



Yeah that is cool thanks for the info.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Yeah i am pretty sure you will want to track it.


I would probably suggest to get a demo on it.

It really is an amazing sonic tool.

It will change your view of synths in general.

The ensembles out there are amazing.

I trade them all the time with people all over the world.

Some of the best comes from Europe(where the best Electronica is done).

Thanks Thrill.... so about how much does Reaktor 5 street for and are the ensembles free to trade (I would assume so but.. you know...).

[r0ck1r0ck2]

elolver...knobs...
knobs help..
makes it easier when you're lit..

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Thanks Thrill.... so about how much does Reaktor 5 street for and are the ensembles free to trade (I would assume so but.. you know...).

I am not sure what the street price is these days.



And yeah you can either trade them or download them off the website.

[radiospace]

I'd recommend the Polyevolver Keyboard. It has quite a bit of real analog components in it and it gives it that extra "oomph" that you simply don't get out of a purely digital synth (whether it is a plug-in like Reaktor or a standalone like the Access Virus). Basically the Polyevolver combines components and architecture from two classic Sequential Circuits synths, the Prophet 5 and the Prophet VS. Plus it has a built-in 4-track step sequencer, and some crazy effects that make for real nasty, gritty mayhem (for example there's something called "output hack" which seemingly overdrives the D/A converters to produce a unique digital distortion).

As far as digital synths, the Access Virus is probably the best at producing "heavy" sounds, i.e. warm, distorted, punchy stuff. The new Virus Ti is quite cool but you might consider picking up a Virus Classic, which sells for half the price, and while lacking a considerable number of features from the Ti, still delivers the basic sound that has made the Virus popular.

The Nord stuff is very clean sounding in a way that strikes me personally as a bit clinical. However, the G2 modular is a pretty amazing system both in terms of software and the brilliant hardware controller they've designed for it. If you're uncomfortable working with plug-ins (and that seems to be the case) you'd probably get more done with a G2 modular than with Reaktor, and you wouldn't have to build a second computer + buy another audio interface. (That said, Reaktor and the G2 sound completely different, with Reaktor better at warmer, dirtier sounds and the G2 more 'pristine'... IMHO).

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Thanks Thrill.... so about how much does Reaktor 5 street for and are the ensembles free to trade (I would assume so but.. you know...).

Reaktor 5 goes for about $400. You can also buy ensembles for it very cheaply.

As has been mentioned, Reaktor is a hardware hog and depending on your configuration, may give you problems.

But it is in many ways the Rolls Royce of synthesizers. And you can build your own "synths" known as the ensembles.

Be aware that there are many, many software synthesizers out there. EastWest also do dedicated sample playback instruments that, depending on your style, can provide great sounds.

Also look at ilio's Atmosphere, Arturia's emulation of Moog synths and just keep looking. There's a ton out there.

[Cojo]

Reaktor is verry complex, you have to read alot to make use of it properly! If you are going "soft modular" I would suggest Nord Modular G2 as radiospace said. That is a really good and easy synth considering being modular.

In cubase a softsynth apear as a midi track, where you do all your midistuff, and as an audio/vst track where you assign your outputs and apply effects and so on. You could render the the whole file and get a wav track if you want to free up cpu power.

/Cojo

[not_so_new]

Cool guys, thanks.

So how about Minimonsta, any good at doing heavy cool sounding distorted NIN stuff?

Also this is going to be a stupid question but what exacly is VSTi? I know the "i" is instrument but what is the deal with it and what does it have to do with soft synths anything?

[radiospace]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Also this is going to be a stupid question but what exacly is VSTi? I know the "i" is instrument but what is the deal with it and what does it have to do with soft synths anything?

VST, which stands for "Virtual Studio Technology", is a standard for developing software plug-ins for DAWs developed by Steinberg (now a division of Yamaha) in conjunction with their sequencer Cubase. A 'VSTi', which may just be a homemade abbreviation rather than an offical Steinberg designation, would simply be a VST plug-in that is meant to be used primarily as an instrument rather than as an effect.

If you don't use Cubase you might not use plug-ins in VST format but it has become, like "Coke" or "Xerox" in their respective fields, shorthand for the general category of DAW plug-ins, so that when someone says VSTi, if you are using a host that supports a different standard (such as Apple's Logic), you understand to not necessarily take it literally, depending on the context.

[juicemaster1500]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Specifically I am looking for the keyboard sounds that are used in heavier stuff like Nine Inch Nails.

I think these guys used kurzweil v.a.s.t equipped synths a lot.

I don't think reaktor or any of the Native instruments synths really has much to offer, besides ridiculous features you don't need.. expect the FM7 synth, which is kinda cool. I use native intstruments kontakt a bit, cos it's so easy and quick to use, but it really is the worst sounding sampler in the universe. Crap crap crap.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by juicemaster1500

I don't think reaktor or any of the Native instruments synths really has much to offer,

That's your opinion and he does use Reaktor.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by radiospace

VST, which stands for "Virtual Studio Technology", is a standard for developing software plug-ins for DAWs developed by Steinberg (now a division of Yamaha) in conjunction with their sequencer Cubase. A 'VSTi', which may just be a homemade abbreviation rather than an offical Steinberg designation, would simply be a VST plug-in that is meant to be used primarily as an instrument rather than as an effect.

If you don't use Cubase you might not use plug-ins in VST format but it has become, like "Coke" or "Xerox" in their respective fields, shorthand for the general category of DAW plug-ins, so that when someone says VSTi, if you are using a host that supports a different standard (such as Apple's Logic), you understand to not necessarily take it literally, depending on the context.

Thanks man.

Yeah I already know what VST is and were it came from the "i" is really what I am wondering about. I believe that Samplitude specifically states that they offer VST and VSTi plug in support. They make it sound like different things but I could be wrong, hence the question. You may be right, it might be a home-brew kind of term.

Thanks.

[Kevin Stone]

http://www.virsyn.de/en/E_Products/E..._minitera.html

Cheap, fun, easy to mess with and they have a demo. Not "full featured" but pretty darn cool. The slot machine button is fun for getting random settings. Some of the sounds I've gotten would fit NIN.

[stevep]

Should checkout the Roland V synth .......... Super cool !!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by juicemaster1500

I think these guys used kurzweil v.a.s.t equipped synths a lot.

I don't think reaktor or any of the Native instruments synths really has much to offer, besides ridiculous features you don't need.. expect the FM7 synth, which is kinda cool. I use native intstruments kontakt a bit, cos it's so easy and quick to use, but it really is the worst sounding sampler in the universe. Crap crap crap.

I don't know man, I was just checking out some of the samples on the Reaktor 5 page and it sounds pretty darn good to me..... What do I know but I think Thrill is on to something here.