Firewire 1814 input question

Poopypants · 25th January 2006

Hi fellas...

I've been reading up on my gear, testing the programs a bit and just now started to plug the stuff in.

I was advised to use some external pres for this thing, because the pres that are in it are supposedly not very good. Also, there are only two pres. I need to be able to run more than two mics simultaneously. So, I got a the Sytek four channel pre. Today, I'm just hooking everything up for the first time. Just doing a test recording of me playing drums. I've got a pair of OHs and a kick mic. Simple enough. Well, I just discovered that the damn 1814 has NO INPUT LEVEL CONTROL! What a simple, necessary thing. Couldn't have been too complicated or expensive to include one.

What the hell should I do? Putting something between the pres and the 1814 seems to potentially defeat the purpose. Anybody else have a similar situation? What COULD go between them and sound good or be really, really simple. I can't see going from the pres into some cheapass Mackie mixer as being any kind of solution. Would it be cheaper to get a better interface?

Goddammit!

Poopypants · 25th January 2006

Forgot to mention:

With the levels ALL THE WAY DOWN on the pres, they're still too hot for the 1814.

Somebody, please...

Cojo · 25th January 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poopypants

Hi fellas...

I've been reading up on my gear, testing the programs a bit and just now started to plug the stuff in.

I was advised to use some external pres for this thing, because the pres that are in it are supposedly not very good. Also, there are only two pres. I need to be able to run more than two mics simultaneously. So, I got a the Sytek four channel pre. Today, I'm just hooking everything up for the first time. Just doing a test recording of me playing drums. I've got a pair of OHs and a kick mic. Simple enough. Well, I just discovered that the damn 1814 has NO INPUT LEVEL CONTROL! What a simple, necessary thing. Couldn't have been too complicated or expensive to include one.

What the hell should I do? Putting something between the pres and the 1814 seems to potentially defeat the purpose. Anybody else have a similar situation? What COULD go between them and sound good or be really, really simple. I can't see going from the pres into some cheapass Mackie mixer as being any kind of solution. Would it be cheaper to get a better interface?

Goddammit!

Hello.

Don't you control the input level in your audio program?

/Cojo

Poopypants · 25th January 2006

Ah human! And it's talking to MEEE!

Really, thanks.

I confess that I am such a green newb, I should be spanked...

I think it's overloading at the inputs of the 1814, before I even get to Protools. Maybe I should see if I can find the input trim on the Protools...why am I thinking it won't have one either? The 1814 manual says that input level must be adjusted at the source BEFORE coming into the 1814 and the shit is pretty hot with the levels on the pres all the way down.

Ol' Betsey · 25th January 2006

You MIGHT have to use mic pads (attenuators) going into the 1814.

I have 4 lying around just in case.

They're also nice in that they let you crank your mic-pre a little to get some bump and grind happenin'.

I've never used the Sytek but I always use pads with my API/Apogee combo.

R.

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

Wouldn't pads go BEFORE the pres? I was actually using a pad on the kick mic. I'm thinking I need some kind of attenuator between the pres and the 1814. I'm also worried that such an attenuator could cause enough signal degradation to make the use of the pres moot, but that fear may be unfounded; it's just a worry. Would pads solve my problem? Would they go between the pre and the 1814?

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

Oh, please, noble and wise denizens of Gearslutz, help me with my technical problems...

Matt Hepworth · 26th January 2006

There's quite a bit of nice equipment without input controls - RME, etc.

Anyway, launch your M-Audio control panel and change the input level from -10 to +4 and your problems should be solved.

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

I don't think it does that, but I'm gonna try right now.

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

There is no input level control.

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

But thanks!

WideawakE · 26th January 2006

yeah, protools won't help either, that only affects after recording

sold my 1814 and got a fireface..mmm, fireface

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

Unless the control panel is something other than the mixer pages...

WideawakE · 26th January 2006

it actually says in the instructions you can't adjust the incoming levels....quite the pain

I'd have to adjust the %'s on my samples in my MPC just to track a beat out...BLAH!

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

Thanks, wideawake. i saw that in the manual. Can I buy attenuators? Is it just a stupid solution?

Matt Hepworth · 26th January 2006

Correction, just downloaded the manual and it looks like the firewire series doesn't have the +4 option. Does the Sytek have selectable output levels?

jslevin · 26th January 2006

You are using the 1814 as an AD converter. It's quite common for an AD converter not to have an input level control. In fact, other than a little bit of calibration range, I've never seen any on any Apogee or RME or Digidesign gear. You deal with line level with your mic preamp, and some unusually hot pieces need a pad or attenuator.

I would add, if they added an input level control as you suggest, they would just be adding an attenuator into the signal path ... which you can do on your own ... and which not everyone needs or wants.

Poopypants · 26th January 2006

Thank you, jselvin,

Is there a particular pad or attenuator that you would suggest?

Ol' Betsey · 26th January 2006

Just Google 'Inline Attenuators'.

I know Shure do them as well as others I'm, uh, sure.

They ain't cheap ($25) but they're mighty good having in the toolbox.

You can make em' yourself too but alas I'm a techno-monkey and prefer to leave the DIY to the pro's.

R.

25th January 2006	#1
Poopypants Gear nut Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 98 Thread Starter	Firewire 1814 input question Hi fellas... I've been reading up on my gear, testing the programs a bit and just now started to plug the stuff in. I was advised to use some external pres for this thing, because the pres that are in it are supposedly not very good. Also, there are only two pres. I need to be able to run more than two mics simultaneously. So, I got a the Sytek four channel pre. Today, I'm just hooking everything up for the first time. Just doing a test recording of me playing drums. I've got a pair of OHs and a kick mic. Simple enough. Well, I just discovered that the damn 1814 has NO INPUT LEVEL CONTROL! What a simple, necessary thing. Couldn't have been too complicated or expensive to include one. What the hell should I do? Putting something between the pres and the 1814 seems to potentially defeat the purpose. Anybody else have a similar situation? What COULD go between them and sound good or be really, really simple. I can't see going from the pres into some cheapass Mackie mixer as being any kind of solution. Would it be cheaper to get a better interface? Goddammit!

25th January 2006	#5
Ol' Betsey Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,035 1 Review written	You MIGHT have to use mic pads (attenuators) going into the 1814. I have 4 lying around just in case. They're also nice in that they let you crank your mic-pre a little to get some bump and grind happenin'. I've never used the Sytek but I always use pads with my API/Apogee combo. R. __________________ The Speaker Snuggy is specifically designed to compensate for the additive effect of using plugins which literally remove the blanket from your speakers. These plugins can sound good when solo'd, but when used across dozens of tracks they can leave your speakers sounding cold and insecure. (Casey / Bricasti) When I haven't any blue I use red. (Pablo Picasso) Ol' Betsey Satan - The Original Flower Shop 8 track - "She fought long and she fought hard..."

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26th January 2006	#6
Poopypants Gear nut Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 98 Thread Starter	Wouldn't pads go BEFORE the pres? I was actually using a pad on the kick mic. I'm thinking I need some kind of attenuator between the pres and the 1814. I'm also worried that such an attenuator could cause enough signal degradation to make the use of the pres moot, but that fear may be unfounded; it's just a worry. Would pads solve my problem? Would they go between the pre and the 1814?

26th January 2006	#8
Matt Hepworth Church of UAD Joined: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,982 1 Review written	There's quite a bit of nice equipment without input controls - RME, etc. Anyway, launch your M-Audio control panel and change the input level from -10 to +4 and your problems should be solved.

26th January 2006	#12
WideawakE Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 980	yeah, protools won't help either, that only affects after recording sold my 1814 and got a fireface..mmm, fireface

26th January 2006	#17
jslevin Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 2,714	You are using the 1814 as an AD converter. It's quite common for an AD converter not to have an input level control. In fact, other than a little bit of calibration range, I've never seen any on any Apogee or RME or Digidesign gear. You deal with line level with your mic preamp, and some unusually hot pieces need a pad or attenuator. I would add, if they added an input level control as you suggest, they would just be adding an attenuator into the signal path ... which you can do on your own ... and which not everyone needs or wants.