Which way? Midas Venice board or a dedicated summing box?

[limey222]

I've been getting pretty close to buying an Audient Sumo or a Mixdream XP lately but I have also been considering using a Midas Venus 240 desk which comes highly recommended. It could be used for both tracking and sum-mixing since it has 16 direct outs that I believe can be modded for post EQ/fader quite easily.

While some summing boxes are designed to be neutral and impart no signature sound to the mix, others specifically do add their own. The Midas may perhaps add "warmth", or "that British EQ sound" etc. Any comments or opinions would be appreciated.

[Earwitness]

I have the same question and does anybody know any samples of albums/songs that have gone down the Midas Venus series console? Any smaller studios project studios using these for this application?
sam

[indie]

I use a Midas Venice. I think it's great for the dough..sonics I would describle as "warm-ish" and can sound a little soft when pushed, but I like it. The eq is great for aggresive sounds. I need to get a great mix buss compressor for it -- I'm just using an RNC now.

I'm sure the Chandler mixer sounds way better because of the sweet transformers and better electronics though. If Chandler ever comes out with that little console with auxes and faders..I'm in!


Here's a short clip

Micah

[Fletcher]

Midas stuff is usually pretty decent... the SPL "MixDream" is a small joy to behold [and the insert points can be damn handy!!!]... from what I heard of the other Audient stuff we auditioned late last year I'd probably go for either of the other two before the Audient... but I'm an asshole.

Best of luck with your search.

[limey222]

Fletch, we know each other NAMM shows and possibly TapeOp conventions.

The Mixdream XP is the "lesser unit" that doesn't have inserts etc, have you heard this unit, I assume that the basic sound signature is the same as the more expensive version?

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by indie

I use a Midas Venice. I think it's great for the dough..sonics I would describle as "warm-ish" and can sound a little soft when pushed, but I like it. The eq is great for aggresive sounds. I need to get a great mix buss compressor for it -- I'm just using an RNC now.

I'm sure the Chandler mixer sounds way better because of the sweet transformers and better electronics though. If Chandler ever comes out with that little console with auxes and faders..I'm in!


Here's a short clip

Micah

To my ears that clip has a sort ot ticky, lip-smacky high end, almost artifact-like. Is that the Midas eq? (sorry, but it seems like something's nuts are gettting squeezed a little too hard)

-R

[indie]

I don't know what to tell you...?
Here's the same basic clip length without mastering...

[nvtmusic]

hi
I run protools out to a midas venice 16 I can offer this - I had a control 24
which i sold and got the midas and a drawmer 1968 compressor (accross the mix bus ) To me the sound is nite & day comparing it to the mixes done "in the box " with the control 24 . the control 24 is a great controller if I could - I would have kept it - just for the wow factor alone. - business is business and clients come in and look at that little midas and say = "what did you do with that big fancy mixer you had " - in the end the sound will speak for itself .
Best of luck in your choice.
Mike

[indie]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

To my ears that clip has a sort ot ticky, lip-smacky high end, almost artifact-like. Is that the Midas eq? (sorry, but it seems like something's nuts are gettting squeezed a little too hard)

-R

Oh forgot to say...the "lip smacky high end" is compression on the vocal EMI TG1.

[dbbubba]

The Midas Venice series are great consoles for the money.
There is no mystery why the big tours ALL have a large frame Midas on the rider.
While those are EXTREMELY expensive consoles the Venice series have the exact same input pre and EQ section. There is one advantage to the Veice though... the signal path after the EQ is shorter, so this means less sh*t to go through on the way to the mix buss.

My impression of a Midas Venice?

We own two (a 240 and a 320) and we use them live all the time. They are usually run with a Nexo S Series line array and are top notch equipment.

I also recently used the 240 to mix a project after giving up trying to TWICE to get an acceptable mix ITB using DP4. I used the Midas with 1176s, dBx165s, dx 160s, dBx 160x a Lexicon 200 and a Ultra Harmonizer. I ran 16 outs from a pair of MOTU 2408mkIIs and the end result sounded great.

Also, understand that I say this after mixing professionally for thirty years and using these consoles daily over this period of time: UA 16x3 with 610s, Sphere Elipse, MCI 500, MCI 600, Neve 8128, Neve 8068 mkII, and an SSL 5000e. I put the Midas very high in that list. It is a very professional piece.

The EQ is very musical.
I don't know why anyone talks about the sound of the console "pushed hard" because it sounds good as it is.
The gain structure is as good as it gets.

I would say that there would be no comparison.

Danny Brwon

[papawhitehead]

Originally Posted by limey222

It could be used for both tracking and sum-mixing since it has 16 direct outs that I believe can be modded for post EQ/fader quite easily.
.

The Midas comes stock with the direct out after the EQ. Look on the Midas site, they have channel diagrams there.

thumbsup

[clusterchord]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

I also recently used the 240 to mix a project after giving up trying to TWICE to get an acceptable mix ITB using DP4. I used the Midas with 1176s, dBx165s, dx 160s, dBx 160x a Lexicon 200 and a Ultra Harmonizer. I ran 16 outs from a pair of MOTU 2408mkIIs and the end result sounded great.

Also, understand that I say this after mixing professionally for thirty years and using these consoles daily over this period of time: UA 16x3 with 610s, Sphere Elipse, MCI 500, MCI 600, Neve 8128, Neve 8068 mkII, and an SSL 5000e. I put the Midas very high in that list. It is a very professional piece.

thanks for the info, Danny.

i used the venice 32 to mix a theater play once, i thought the eq is great as well. however, i couldnt get a feeling how it would fare in a studio mix situation.

anyway, i'm about to buy a smaller desk for my analog mixing (synths, reverbs plus fireface from DAW), and i can get a new Venice 32 for a pretty good price. otoh, i can also get a MCI series 500 console for about the same price, but 16 channels plus 8 groups plus 16 tape returns. problem is it needs new casing and is in parts.. needs new master pcb, probably in need of re-capping being 25 yrs old etc. translation: requires lot of work n extra cost involved.

i worked once on MCI 600, but too briefly to form an opinion, tho i'm pretty sure that 500 is in completely different league than Venice..


advice ?


thanks

Tom

[Surfkat]

I had a Venice 32 chl in my B Room with a PT TDM system and it was a great sounding rig. Plenty of headrom and lots of depth and a solid punchy sound, especially for rock. I would say it sounds like good "modern analog." We have a Trident 80C in the A Room so that's immediate my point of reference, it sounds like "vintage analog", a bit warmer.

My only complaint would be that I found the Venice EQ to be too aggressive for acoustic music. I loved the EQ for rock stuff though, reminded me of API, but I couldn't get it to be subtle enough for acoustic stuff. That Trident EQ is subtle.

I recently sold the Venice and am currently redoing the B Room with a small ITB system since it is mainly used for overdubing, preproduction and editing.

[dbbubba]

Get the Venice!

I'd say that the venice probebly sounds better than a MCI500.
The Venice has etter EQ for sure!
I have used MCI 500s for years and while they were pretty OK in their day they are definitely not great.
If you invest the time in the MCI you will NOT end up with a restored great console.
You will end up with a restored MCI500 and thats like restoring an '80s Buick station wagon.
When you get it running it will be a maintenance nightmare.

A little story...

My friend bought a Neve 8128 from a studio that I worked at.
The consoe had been simultaneously badly neglected and had bad repair work.
He bought the console VERY cheap nd drug it to L.A.
I flew out there several times and he finally got it running, but it had so many problems that you could barely run a session on it.
He sold it after four years of frustration.
On the otherhand he now has an even older Neve with 16 1073s, but it is from a better made era of Neves and the parts were all better consition.
It is a wonderful console.

In short:
The Venice works now and you can get on with making nice recording NOW.
The MCI will take a lot of time and the end result is not as good of a console.

I took over a studio space in 1990 and in a back room was an intact, but un-used MCI 500. There was also a Bosendorfer 9' grand that I could have for almost any price I wanted to pay monthly. I passed because I had to take the MCI 500 in the deal. I rented a Steinway for about $300.00 per month, but could have paid $200.00 per month for the MUCH better Bosendorfer. I didn't want that console!

I also sold a perfectly maintained 12 channel broadcast MCI 500 for $500.00 in 1997.
I was glad to get that for it, too!

Danny Brown

[vtone]

I have both a midas venice 320 and an audient sumo-- of course I love them both, that's why I'll never get rid of them!

I normally mix on the midas with great results, but the sumo has come in handy for my portable rig: sounds great ONLY if you don't hit the compressor too hard. you can always insert your own compressor but I've found that just a tickle on the mix buss is very nice sweetener.

I've also heard great things about the mixdream and nicerizer.

if you have the real estate you won't regret a midas. if space is limited, an audient sumo will put a smile on your face.

[clusterchord]

thanks. yes, the maintenance prospects scare me to no end. means even less time left for making music.

at first, i kinda thought 500 will give me some of the late 70s vintage analog mojo (damn buzzwords). i use a lot of vintage analog synths, and want to mix ambient and some berlin school electronica on it. other application would be mixing stems from VSTi orchestra (DAW).

i really dont like ITB sound. so, in a console, am looking for less "in your face" sound, more 3D vibe and warmth.

besides Midas and MCI, i have a Soundcraft 600 offered to me in very good shape. with EDACs and cabling arround 2.3k locally... 24/16/8.

would that perhaps be a better choice ? other suggestions?


excuse if this is side tracking the Venice topic a bit..

(affordable analog summing /mixing seems to be ongoing topic round here..)


thanks

[indie]

I've never tried the 600...but I do prefer the Midas to the Soundcraft Ghost...if that matters to you. My Midas mixes sound bigger than my one Ghost mix I tried years ago.
Good luck..GO MIDAS!
Micah

[natpub]

We also use a 320 and are very happy with it. I agree with the person who said the EQ can be a bit too aggressive for folk acoustic kinda stuff. The Pre's are good, and mildly coloured. I would not say they were "great" but they are quite usable. For the way we work, the Midas is ideal--we like to feel knobs and listen, not move the mouse and stare at a screen. Oh yeah, I sometimes wish they did not have short-throw faders. I could use a little more space to play with fades and gain rides. But oh well. A few more Aux would also be nice, but then price goes up a lot to the higher models. The board is not designed for all the studio convineinces, but is great for hybrid use, especially if you also sometimes take it out for live gigs too! That double-duty made is a good investment for us.

[Telecastr]

Originally Posted by natpub

Oh yeah, I sometimes with they did not have short-throw faders.

Amen to that!

[WideawakE]

can someone give me a quick explanation of a summing box..

take the digital recording and spit it out to the "summing box" to get some analog artifacts, compression etc. and then bring it back to digital? kind of a mastering/finalizing channel strip?

also, how do you guys mix out of the box with a digital recording computer setup? eq before going in and just record to PT/DP/Nuendo etc? or record without the mixer, then spit it back out to the mixer and then back into the computer? If that way, you would need muy outs on your soundcard correct?

Hmmm..someone help a newbie out, doesn't have to be long winded

also , how much does the venice run? 3K?

[natpub]

Originally Posted by WideawakE

also , how much does the venice run? 3K?

Depends on if it is the 16, 24, or 32 channel model. I think the 24 may be around that price. We got lucky and got a brand new 32 for an unspeakably low price:P I think they retail a bit over 5k.

[dieguito]

To go back to the initial topic, could someone tell me if a Midas Venice could be good for summing or is it better to have a dedicated summing box ?

[nigel saunders]

Originally Posted by vtone

I have both a midas venice and a summing box, but I haven't set up the midas yet. I've used it a bit and it sounds amazing-- the midas will sound MUCH better than a summing box IMO.

That has been my experience.

[John Eppstein]

A Midas is MUCH better than a smaller Soundcraft. The lesser Soundcrafts have reliability problems - the mic pres blow on certain models. Not so on the bigger ones. I have both a Soundcraft DC2020 32 input automated console (a big Soundcraft) and a Midas Venice 320. I've used the Midas for live recording and gigging and I love it. I also use it as a sidecar to the big Soundcraft in the studio for stuff like drum submixes etc. when I run out of channels on the big board running both my 24 track Studer and my 24 track digital rig together.

[alba63]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

A Midas is MUCH better than a smaller Soundcraft.(...)I have both a Soundcraft DC2020 32 input automated console (a big Soundcraft) and a Midas Venice 320. I've used the Midas for live recording and gigging and I love it.

Hi, this thread is very helpful to me, I am about to re-put together a small homestudio, my first concern is audio quality. I once had a Soundcraft ghost but had to sell it for time and space issues, now I wish I had kept it, the Sound of it was slightly warm with a great summing bus which gave a kind of full, punchy analogue sound and - compared with my previous smaller lower end mixers - also a "big" sound. If the Midas 24ch will give me the same type of performance, I'd prefer it for it's smaller footprint.

The ghost is more versatile because of it's inline technology and full parametric EQ, but my useage is rather basic, I use it mainly as a good sounding summing box with a bit of EQ and a bit of external FX, mixing 10-16 line channels from my Soundcard outs (Sampler, maybe a few VSTis) plus a few external synth channels, including some analogue synths. I hardly ever touch the mic preamps.

So, I still wonder: Again a used ghost, or a Midas Venice 24?

In any way, I prefer physcal boxes to virtual everything. Both for touch & feel and for sound. My music style is electronic and chillout/ ambient.

thanks
Bernie

[trashman]

I owned numerous summing mixers and line mixers including api 8200a, speck xtramix, ssl xrack, oram octamix and dangerous 2bus.

The midas venice sounds equally as nice if not better because it has more routing options and eq. I ran 16 channel mixes directly to the midas 320 and then api 8200a+8200 and the midas held its own with stereo image, punch and clarity. The api obviously sounded different, but Ive got an 2500 compressor for that sound when desired.

Workflow is every bit as important. Spreading out your tracks and having creative control can yield good results.

The midas is great because the eq can be switched out and you can drop in a favorite eq or comp or both and slowly build a system to taste. Ive got an xrack of comps a few mix bus comps for the subgroups and a few channels of hi end eq for critical tracks or just for character (like the api 2500).

This board or the toft or even a studer or neo trident are a better way to get into analog mixing than a summing mixer. I could see perhaps adding a summing mixer to the midas perhaps .... Maybe .... But i think you could get more mileage out of a new compressor or eq.

If you want to sum 8 tracks to take it to another level i dont think it'll happen. Buy a neve comp, api, obsidian etc and/or an awesome mic pre like a gtq2 for your DAW 2-bus.

Hope this was useful

[Gibson]

Im close to getting a mixer and spread 18 tracks out via apogee DAs, At a similar price i wonder what desk would sound better between a 24 ch Toft or Midas..
Which of the 2 has a better eq and better Imaging in the buss???

[once a roadie]

i'm seriously considering a small console and the midas is at the top of the list...I have heard some mention that they use the midas to feed a summing mixer...that got me thinking, can folks post / describe how they get the midas into their set-up?

[nigel saunders]

Originally Posted by once a roadie

i'm seriously considering a small console and the midas is at the top of the list...I have heard some mention that they use the midas to feed a summing mixer...that got me thinking, can folks post / describe how they get the midas into their set-up?

I don't see the point of feeding a midas into a summing mixer.
I had a summing mixer and I think the midas sounds a lot better.
In imho fact just running 2 channels into a midas to use its eq and coming direct out is often enough to get the OTB benefit (headroom, depth, stereo image etc).
I now come out to the midas with a ubk fatso on the inserts and print to an alesis masterlink and I really like the sound.

[once a roadie]

I've got 16 D/A outputs and am considering the venice 240...I already own a folcrom and am wondering if I can get by with the venice 160 and use the folcrom with the 160 to somehow get more functionality...

trashman, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion

also is anyone worried that midas was bought by the B-team? I see that as of this AM, sweetwater no longer carries midas and I get paranoid sometimes...