Compression to "tape" or in the mix?

[BruceTheProduce]

I've been doing this for about 4 years or so. when I record drums or percussion I try to only use compression when recording, only so I don't overload and to mantain a steady sound, Not for any artistical approach. I do this very very subtly so I don't regret it when my ears are fresh and the drummer is gone and it just sounds aweful. Then in the mix I can push it way more. Do you folks compress to " tape" or preffer to do it in the mix?

Bruce

[Jay Kahrs]

Both.

Usually it's tamer on the way to 'tape' and I'll push it real hard on the mix side if needed. Lots of compression going on, but all in small amounts so nothing is getting slammed. Well...some stuff gets killed some of the time, but not everything all of the time.

[No4PCs]

Hi, im learning recording methods too, and i think use compressor a bit, if the instrument need, mean, the compression for drums to tape is needed a litlle to correct the dynamics of the beats?

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Both.

Usually it's tamer on the way to 'tape' and I'll push it real hard on the mix side if needed. Lots of compression going on, but all in small amounts so nothing is getting slammed. Well...some stuff gets killed some of the time, but not everything all of the time.

yes, both. what he said.

[Mike Caffrey]

Effects kind of stuff, like limiting room mics, I'll put to tape. Mild stuff too if there is any, but it's fairly rare.

Then most of my compression happens during the mix, but even then, there maybe be a lot of compressors, but not necessaily a lot of compression.

[JDN]

I track most instruments/vocals with mild compression...I think the basic theory is error on the side of caution, better to undercompress tracking than over compress since you can't take it off...I think it actually helps the mix cause at the end of the day you have the nice sound of compressors being run in series(tracking and mixing)

[u b k]

everything ends up with at least a little compression in my mixes, so everything gets at least a little bit on the way to tape. compression is sweeter pre-conversion than post conversion, comps seem friendlier reacting to a pre than a converter.

ime, on things like drum overs, acoustic guitars, and vocals, every 1db of good compression or limiting applied before tape results in 2db less compression i'll need come mix time.

i have no idea why that is.


gregoire
del ubik

[84K]

there are many ways to compress and many sounds that can be gotten out of compressors. It is very subjective to the type/amount of compression and how hot you hit the tape (God Bless You) that you are recording to.

I have a drum kit set up for tracking a new project in the live room right now. Out of the 12 mics being used, the only compression on the kit is:

the room mics ( 2 Chandler TG Abbey Road Compressors: Channel 1 compress into Channel 2 on limit for Left and Right) the center room mic is compressed with the Pendulum Audio 6386. The snare (mic'd with a Josephson e22s) is being naturally compressed (you would never know there was any compression if I didn't tell you) with an Atomic Squeezebox. The tape does the rest.


The mixer can let it rip from there. Slam, Squash, Beat, Trash, whatever. I deliver an open palate that sounds natural and bad-ass. I use a lot of EQ when tracking... much more EQing then compressing.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by 84K

the room mics ( 2 Chandler TG Abbey Road Compressors: Channel 1 compress into Channel 2 on limit for Left and Right)

You run the compression after the limiter? I'll have to try that. I've been using my 2 pair in limit first, compression second, also on the L/R rooms.

Where is yout center mics, right between the stero pair?

I"ve been running mine either low, front and center or randomly against a a wall. It tends to be either level loc or a 1073 run too hot into a Distressor on nuke.

Are you using ribbons too?

[84K]

Hey Mike,

Sorry to be unclear... I am running 3 room mics.

Audience's Perspective

Left and Right Room Mics Are Elam 251s
Left Room (down low... in line with floor tom) and Right Room (again low.. in line with the rack tom) are going into some old custom brittish mic pres, then into a Pendulum stereo Pultec style EQ (the only one in the world ) and then each into a Chandler TG Compressor, first in channel one on compression then channel 2 on limit. (that requires 2 Chandler TG compressors to do... 4 channels total). The center room mic is a Innertube Mag Mic which is going into a Shep SN8 and uncompressed. We have a very large live room, so I enjoy trying to capture it the best I can.

There are Coles 4038s as overheads and a RCA BK-11 behind the drummer's head. None of those are compressed.... other than the tape.

[Mike Caffrey]

That's pretty similar to what I do, except I prefer drummer's perspective.

I used my Coles as the stereo room mics for a while, with a pair of LDCs for overheads, but lately I've ended up with the Coles as overheads and a pair of M160s as the room mics. The 160s go first to an older Chandler EMI from before the taper was adjusted on the input and I run that in limitm then to one of the newer ones in compress, so my compressing and limiting is backwards from yours. I tend to use TG-2s or the 5012 with those and some HPF from the 5012 or from a pair of Freqs if I'm using the TG-2.

I've got an M260 that I throw in a corner or out infront of a kick that goes to either a level loc and then a 1073 or to a 1073 and the a distressor or a Culture Vulture.

You said something about compressing the center one with a 6386 in your eariler post.

How different is the Pendulum "Pultec" EQ from the Quartet II's EQ?

[84K]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

That's pretty similar to what I do, except I prefer drummer's perspective.

I used my Coles as the stereo room mics for a while, with a pair of LDCs for overheads, but lately I've ended up with the Coles as overheads and a pair of M160s as the room mics. The 160s go first to an older Chandler EMI from before the taper was adjusted on the input and I run that in limitm then to one of the newer ones in compress, so my compressing and limiting is backwards from yours. I tend to use TG-2s or the 5012 with those and some HPF from the 5012 or from a pair of Freqs if I'm using the TG-2.

I've got an M260 that I throw in a corner or out infront of a kick that goes to either a level loc and then a 1073 or to a 1073 and the a distressor or a Culture Vulture.

You said something about compressing the center one with a 6386 in your eariler post.

How different is the Pendulum "Pultec" EQ from the Quartet II's EQ?

Hey Mike,

The Pendulum Stereo EQ is a bit more versitle then the Quartet 2 EQ but it is basically the same. It has a high cut band and the mid dip. The Low Boost a Low Cut have separate frequency controls. So it is like an EQP-1a with mid dip and separate frequency control in the low cut/boost sections. It retains the passive aggressive switch and all other features. From the last I heard, it is going to be the next product released after the Peak Limiter.

The center Room mic is the Mag Mic. It is going in to the 6386 which is in bypass right now. Depending on the song, I kick it in for more of the Bohnam sound. With it out, it is more of a natural 'in the room drumming' sound. Makes a big difference. Kick it in and it "pounds" in that familiar way. I also mult the the L-R mics (pre compression/limiting) into the Thermionic Cult Vult... (but SSHHHHH! don't talk about that box... that's the secret sauce...)

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by 84K

Hey Mike,

The Pendulum Stereo EQ is a bit more versitle then the Quartet 2 EQ but it is basically the same. It has a high cut band and the mid dip. The Low Boost a Low Cut have separate frequency controls. So it is like an EQP-1a with mid dip and separate frequency control in the low cut/boost sections. It retains the passive aggressive switch and all other features. From the last I heard, it is going to be the next product released after the Peak Limiter.

The center Room mic is the Mag Mic. It is going in to the 6386 which is in bypass right now. Depending on the song, I kick it in for more of the Bohnam sound. With it out, it is more of a natural 'in the room drumming' sound. Makes a big difference. Kick it in and it "pounds" in that familiar way. I also mult the the L-R mics (pre compression/limiting) into the Thermionic Cult Vult... (but SSHHHHH! don't talk about that box... that's the secret sauce...)

The secret sauce in additiona to two TG-1s in series?

How much sauce?

I tried sauce only on the room mics a while back, but I think I overdid it. I was trying to get teh crunch, without the cymbal movement.

My new thing with the rooms is the just one TG-1 on the insterts of an S&M box with the center limited and the sides compressed. IT's still big, but a little cleaner that two inseries.

[Push845]

I Put a Little comp. and gates during tracking. I run my snare and Bass drum into a UA2-2610 for thickness and at mixdown I buss thru a SSL mastering Comp. to a Manley Vari-Mu. I'm loving life! : ) and my mixes!

[84K]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

The secret sauce in additiona to two TG-1s in series?

How much sauce?

I tried sauce only on the room mics a while back, but I think I overdid it. I was trying to get teh crunch, without the cymbal movement.

LOL. I try to not abuse the compressor and limiter too much, leaving room for a little vulture to blend in.... It all depends on the sound you are getting in the room mics. I try to get as little of the cymbals and all the 'meat' of the kit. Its tricky, took a long time with placement. Low to the ground and angled in FO8. But, I am sure your room would have a different sweet spot, and doing that largely depends on the drummer. Have you ever tried to get the drummer to do crashes as overdubs? I have on a few instances, luckily the drummer I am working with now is good about not to bashing the cymbals when the red light is on.

My new thing with the rooms is the just one TG-1 on the insterts of an S&M box with the center limited and the sides compressed. IT's still big, but a little cleaner that two inseries.[/QUOTE]

Sounds great! I will have to try that. Thanks Mike!