spring reverb damping

[Surfman]

How can i use a Noise gate or a Ducking unit to create Palm muting spring reverb jarring effects?


I don't want to use my Palm of my picking hand so how would i do this electronically?


I need a electronic Damping effects to jar and spring the reverb how do i do this?


can the Noise gate or Ducking unit create Damping to jar the reverb?

[jchas]

Hey Walters
Sorry I can't help with the spring jarring - as a drummer I would just kick the amp once in a while...

I see you've been working on your english skills since last we met - good job.

[Surfman]

I'm trying to get more of that springy sounds how do i get more springy sounds?

How do i change the "muting" of the springs inside the reverb tank?

[Surfman]

when i palm mute my guitar i get a different attack/decay sound from the reverb why is that the spring reverb changes when palm muting?

[Surfman]

I need to change the Sustain whats the reverse or recipical of sustain?


Whats the opposite of sustain?

[jchas]

There isn't an opposite of sustain
The lack of sustain is pizzacato

[Surfman]

How do i get audio signal to pizzacato?


What piece of gear would make the audio signal pizzacato?

[tINY]

The opposite of sustain is attack or decay, depending on how you think.

....to change the damping on your tank, try different mufflers. I had to try several on my Sheman before I found one that had the right sound. Don't use you hand on the muffler, though: It'll get burned.......



-tINY

[Surfman]

what type of Reverb mufflers is there?

Where do u get these reverb mufflers?

[jchas]

Originally Posted by tINY

The opposite of sustain is attack or decay, depending on how you think.

....to change the damping on your tank, try different mufflers. I had to try several on my Sheman before I found one that had the right sound. Don't use you hand on the muffler, though: It'll get burned.......

-tINY

I respectfully disagree...
If sustain is the holding of a note for a specified period of time the the opposite would be holding for a negative period of time (theoretically impossible), or not-
holding for a specified period of time (which would appear to be pizzacato but since pizzacato is actually a very short period of time it is still a 'specified' period of time). And since it is Walters we're dealing with it really doesn't matter anyway.

I do agree with your assesment of damping a tank however. And a muffler used on a Sherman would probably be overkill on an audio signal but a muffler that you wrap around your neck (aka scarf) would probably be effective in most cases. Simply wrap it around the reverb springs (once for mild damping, twice for medium damping, and three times for a pizzicato effect).

[tINY]

I don't know. Sustain is a steady state - attack and decay are both non-steady states...

Good call on the scarf!





-tINY

[7 Hz]

Guitars and spring reverbs don't 'sustain' - its all attack and decay unless you are getting feedback. Or playing the guitar with a bow.

Asking whats the opposite of sustain is like asking whats the opposite of food.

To get LESS sustain, you either damp the strings / whatevers vibrating, or turn it down with a volume control, either manualy or automaticaly. Violins pizzicato because they have a short natural decay (as do all the violin family, they are designed mainy to be bowed).

It's an annoying question. Be clearer.

[2leod]

Originally Posted by Surfman

How can i use a Noise gate or a Ducking unit to create Palm muting spring reverb jarring effects?

Well Wal... - I mean Surfman, you can't. A Ducking unit, when it quacks, doesn't reverberate.

Originally Posted by Surfman

I don't want to use my Palm of my picking hand so how would i do this electronically?

You need a "Palmer" DI Box. You'll thank me later. Conversely you might try one of these.

Originally Posted by Surfman

I need a electronic Damping effects to jar and spring the reverb how do i do this?

I got nothing.

Originally Posted by Surfman

can the Noise gate or Ducking unit create Damping to jar the reverb?

If I was going to apply damping on the reverb I wouldn't use a jar, I'd go with a packing blanket or some Auralex if you want to get fancy. I haven't tried jchas' method though, that sounds like it might work too!

[Surfman]

Simply wrap it around the reverb springs (once for mild damping, twice for medium damping, and three times for a pizzicato effect).

This would make the springs not shake as much= pizzicato

When i palm mute on the guitar its make the reverb springs shake more?

When i palm mute on the guitar its make increases the drive current to the transducer? driving the springs harder?

How can i set up a GATE to act like palm muting or damping the audio signal so the audio signal is triggering like pizzicato effect

Set up the GATE = pizzicato effect how can i set the GATE dials for a pizzicato effects? for input audio?

[Surfman]

to make sustain shorter.

How do i do this please?
What piece of gear would make sustain short like pizzacatto
so its variable sustain pedal to make it shorter?


Sustain is measured in positive time - seconds or milliseconds.

Most Sustain gear makes the sustain time longer in positive time
i need "shorter" sustain

what piece of gear make the sustain short or the positive time shorter?

If you want to reverse this, you will definately need negative time.

How would i get Negative Sustain?

[7 Hz]

It's hard to do with any gate because the electric guitar string 'sustains' so long (it has a slow decay). It is very hard to set a noise gate to cut the note in an even manner, it doesnt sound musical usualy. Try it and see, these's only about 4 or 5 knobs max on a noize gate.

To get pizzicato play with muted strings or palm mute or a sock under the bridge. Sounds loads better.

To get it so the muted sound only goes to the reverb, and the dry sound is normal (full decay) - On a guitar amp this is difficult (impossible) unless your amp has an insert in front off and in series with the reverb send. much easier in any studio.

[7 Hz]

Originally Posted by Surfman

How would i get Negative Sustain?

You are getting your terms mixed up (to be pedantic), but -

To get your negative sustain, an expander would do this without the harsh or random 'cut off' like a noise gate. You need to expand the dynamics. What you are looking for is quite radicaly expanded dymanics. The problem with this is it relies still on the dynamics of your note.

Why not just damp the string?

[Surfman]

To get it so the muted sound only goes to the reverb, and the dry sound is normal (full decay) - On a guitar amp this is difficult (impossible) unless your amp has an insert in front off and in series with the reverb send. much easier in any studio


how would this work?

What is the muting sound ? the reverb with a gate u mean?

Why would it be a "insert in series"?

[7 Hz]

Come on man, you have got to know what you want. Look it up on Google.

[jchas]

Perhaps if you replay the part on a Banjo?

[Surfman]

Sustain is measured in positive time - seconds or milliseconds.


Is the sustain is 1 second how do i make it shorter? what piece of gear would make the sustain shorter or its positive time shorter?

[Surfman]

If the sustain is 50ms how do i make it 20us?

If the sustain is 100ms how do i make it 10us?

if the sustain is 350 ms how do i make it 80us?


Would a GATE or Noise GATE or ADSR do this?

[jchas]

I think you've brought up some excellent points for product developement for 2006. MOTU could engineer their Timepiece clock into a 'Negative-Timepiece' Clock. By simply adding negative time to any audio signal you could then shorten that signal to fit any timeframe. This would eliminate the artifacts associated with time-shortening via the bit removal method. Maybe they could even add a 'Artifacts' control for those that have learned to like the strange 'glitchiness' you get when trying to shrink or stretch a wave. And if you turn the control to 100% you could get no dry signal at all - just Artifacts. How cool would that be? And as the price of 'negative memory' drops ( I would assume it to be pretty pricey at first) they could expand it to 5, 10, maybe even 30 seconds. This way, if you were to record something really stupid, instead of just erasing it, you could add 30 seconds of negative time and it would have never happened in the first place.

And I really think the reverb muffler is WAY ahead of it's time. How many times have we gotten the perfect track only to find that it's washed out with 90%, 8-second reverb right in the track? Just insert the Lexicon Reverb Muffler (soon to be out in plug-in format) and bring the dry signal right to the forefront again. Brilliant idea. Wish I would have thought of it first.

[Surfman]

very funny

[yeloocproducer]

Walt pheonixing from the ashes....

jason jason jason... kill kill kill...

[joeq]

Originally Posted by jchas

. And if you turn the control to 100% you could get no dry signal at all - just Artifacts. How cool would that be? And as the price of 'negative memory' drops ( I would assume it to be pretty pricey at first) they could expand it to 5, 10, maybe even 30 seconds. This way, if you were to record something really stupid, instead of just erasing it, you could add 30 seconds of negative time and it would have never happened in the first place.
.

That's only scratching the surface. Once you have 'negative memory' you could use it to build a 'digital advance line'. The echo would appear BEFORE the dry signal. It could be used to create pre-echoes and print-through simulations for a more tape-like experience.

And if you can get the negative time up to several minutes, you can solve that problem of lack of inspiration - i.e. not knowing what to play. Just put the Digital Advance Line to 100% wet and listen to what you WILL play a few minutes from now.

[tINY]

This reminds me of the "Talent Gate with ego suppessor" spec I read from Rane.....

I think that we can help Surfman with a gate followed by a compressor with a huge GR - the attack now controls the decay - hold-off now controls how long the sustain holds on -

I still think you should thow your mute in a palm, though - just watch out for any coconuts you might knock down.




-tINY

[Surfman]

What kind of gate would make the sustain time period shorter?

If the sustain is 50ms how do i make it 20us?

If the sustain is 100ms how do i make it 10us?

if the sustain is 350 ms how do i make it 80us?


What Gate would do this please?

[GearHunter]

Just listen to anything by the Astronauts. I think they had one guitar-player who did nothing but do the muted plucking, which then made the spring reverb go "splash splash splash". There's no electronic or non-manual way to make that sound. At least that I know of.

And Surf Guitar playing or recording questions should be directed to me!

[GearHunter]

Originally Posted by GearHunter

Just listen to anything by the Astronauts. I think they had one guitar-player who did nothing but do the muted plucking, which then made the spring reverb go "splash splash splash". There's no electronic or non-manual way to make that sound. At least that I know of.

And Surf Guitar playing or recording questions should be directed to me!

Unless you're Walters that is. In which case....um, NEVER MIND!