best kick mic for that "pantera" sound.

[maskedman72]

what kick mic will get you that pantera kick drum sound best without grabbing for an eq or a sample?

im looking for a mic to have just for metal bands that want that type of kick sound. and we all know they all want that sound.

[huarez]

The AT 2500 could be a suggestion, at least it´s not only the mic but a lot the drum, the tuning ,the position of the mic, the beater and the player. The drummer of Pantera glued a coin where his wooden beater hits the drum

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by huarez

The drummer of Pantera glued a coin where his wooden beater hits the drum

This is true. Also, lots and lots of EQ. I actually have a sample of the 5 minutes alone kick.... PM me and I'll give it to you as a reference.

[toolskid]

Drum issues aside - you could try a lavalier mic on the beater side thru a TD4 + a royer R122 on the fok! I get a good slappy kick like that!

[Matt Grondin]

I've heard lots of mention of the Audix D6 for this sort of thing... that, or I'd imagine a D112 would work... you'll probably end up boosting the shit out of 5k anyway to get some attack.

[PRobb]

Just hit a phone book with a pencil and sample that.

[dbbubba]

I could find out for you because I know people that did that stuff with them.
My very good friend was their vocalist before Phil.
He knows a lot of the "tricks" but then again things evolved.
They grew up in dad's studio, so they were no idiots!

I do know that Vinnie used Remo Diplomat heads on his toms for recording.
He probebly had to change them a lot.
He wasn't a perticularly hard player though.

I recorded/mixed them live on a few radio shows in the late '80s, but I don't recall anything out of the ordinary.

Interestingly enough, Vinnie used to call me daily back in about 1997 about working with them.
He wanted me to show them how to install and use their home studio.
This is where they recorded everything after that record with the guy getting hit in the face. SEE! I don't even know the title of it!
I just couldn't hang with a rock band since I already had a 9 to 5 studio job and a family. (They weren't gonna' offer full coverage insurance!)
I can hear Vinnie now now, "Dude! We can pay you a lot of money!"
I just couldn't do the rock-n-roll thing any longer at that point.
I had already toured and recorded a major label band and I had gotten off of that locomotive.
Plus, they were SERIOUSLY into their lifestyle.

They are (were) good guys at heart.
They just liked to drink and live like pirates!

Danny Brown

[u b k]

Originally Posted by maskedman72

what kick mic will get you that pantera kick drum sound best without grabbing for an eq or a sample?

wow, good luck with the purist approach! they have one of the most processed, tricked-out, unnatural drum sounds of any band ever, imo.

i say screw it, grab a d112 and a whole lot of eq, compression, gating, keying, and sample layering. why not? metal clients care about the sound, not the method, and ime the methods are generally as extreme as the sound itself.


gregoire
del ubik

[drew]

i heard that it was a 414 in figure 8 with the null facing the beater. it does have a sort of bottle type resonance to it although i've never tried it myself. try it.

[cdog]

Originally Posted by huarez

The AT 2500 could be a suggestion, at least it´s not only the mic but a lot the drum, the tuning ,the position of the mic, the beater and the player. The drummer of Pantera glued a coin where his wooden beater hits the drum

The quarter trick sounds like ass.

A plastic or wood beater sounds the best for this.

DW pedals seem to be the standard for metal:

http://www.dwdrums.com/pedals/9000Pedals.htm

Really, you're going to have to use lots of compression and EQ to achieve that sound.

You're not making a jazz record. Processing is your friend.

I would go with a condenser mic inside the drum right on the beater, and a speaker type mic (yamaha subkick) a foot outside the front head.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to twist the EQ knob till it comes off.

[ZEUSS]

There isnt a mic that will do it with no eq. Start with a nice drum 18" deep at least. A head like a clear evans EQ3. Stay away from coated heads. Some sort of kick pad for the beater. A hard beater either wood or a DW plastic style. Make sure there is no dampning whatsoever inside the kick. Part of the sound is the reflections. Tune the front head so it is as loose as it can be without falling off. Use a nice snappy mic like a Audix D6 or Senny 602. Place it about a quarter of the way in the drum aiming at the beater.Scoop some low mids and add some high mids. Maybe a hair of Comp or none. done deal.

[clipgod]

Shure Beta91


in combination with any other common kick mic

you still need to roll off lows and mids on the beta, but that`s the mic that`ll give you the kick

[Jay Kahrs]

You're ALL wrong.

Well, mostly wrong.

About 80% of that sound is a sample.

The other 20% or so is a real microphone in a real drum.

But all the low end push & attack on the top end?

Sample.

[ZEUSS]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

You're ALL wrong.

Well, mostly wrong.

About 80% of that sound is a sample.

The other 20% or so is a real microphone in a real drum.

But all the low end push & attack on the top end?

Sample.

Well of course its a sample.
The point is how to get the sound of the sample.

[everybody's x]

this will get you close

tune the kick to sound that way

powerstroke 3
falaam pad
wood beaters

Audix D6



tuck a sample from an alesis D4 underneath to get the rest of the way

[warhead]

Audix D6. That mic has a very wide slap attack that could get terribly annoying on any other kind of music...makes kick hits sound like processed samples.

War

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

You're ALL wrong.

Well, mostly wrong.

About 80% of that sound is a sample.

The other 20% or so is a real microphone in a real drum.

But all the low end push & attack on the top end?

Sample.

He only does the sample thing live.
Originally he did the quarter trick, recently he uses a Danmar pad. On Cowboys from Hell, he used a D112. I don't know after that.

[C_F_H_13]

Alrighty guys, I got way more PM's than I thought I would so I'll just post it on here for everyone. I was told I can share!!

I can't tell you exactly bit rate or any of that stuff, all I can say is that it works great as a reference and as a SR sound.


Hope this works for you guys, cause it certainly does for me.

[Dougie Murray]

the way to do it is to use a hard plastic beater hitting a large coin gaffa taped onto the drum skin

no resonant head on the drum

mic this with a single EV RE20 1 to 2 inches from the head where the beater is hitting

that will give u one F*UCKING HOSTILE kick

[desol]

Originally Posted by C_F_H_13

Alrighty guys, I got way more PM's than I thought I would so I'll just post it on here for everyone. I was told I can share!!

I can't tell you exactly bit rate or any of that stuff, all I can say is that it works great as a reference and as a SR sound.


Hope this works for you guys, cause it certainly does for me.

Your sample is only 19KB big...that's tiny....it doesn't work.
As for the pantera kick sound...it's as only as good as it's played...
The rest is a descent mic...descent pre...and descent comp....no mystery.

[thethrillfactor]

Two words:

Andy Wallace.

[desol]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Two words:

Andy Wallace.

lol... that too.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by desol

Your sample is only 19KB big...that's tiny....it doesn't work.
As for the pantera kick sound...it's as only as good as it's played...
The rest is a descent mic...descent pre...and descent comp....no mystery.

It's a mono wav file that's like 50ms long maybe. I just DLed it to make sure it works.... All it is, is a sample of the kick they used. It's super short and punchy. As I said in my post, it's great for SR or a REFERENCE!!! I never said it's the worlds greatest kick sample.

And trust me it's not just mic,pre,comp,drummer,kit,room!!! I have watched a certain producer/mixer get drum sounds for this style of music and there's alot more to it than that....those are just the building blocks.

[everybody's x]

sample worked here, it's a 24 bit file! thanks


heres my approximation with the gear I mentioned earlier, no sample mixed in

24bit/44.1

[maskedman72]

thanks for the replys! it seeme that the d6 is the mic that will put you closest to that type of sound right offf the bat. the quarter thing does suck ass imho. if you get a drummer that has that bounce off the head thing going it sucks.

yes i know that pantera sound is mainly a sample im just looking to get as close to it as possable with the mic itself than process from there.

i think zeuss hit the nail on the head here.

why didnt vinnie paul do a sample library cd? that would have rocked for us metal head ae's.

[picksail]

Two more words:

Sound Replacer

Perhaps they did not employ Sound Replacer per-se, but triggers were involved.
Also, try to make the toms sound like the kick or vise-versa.

I think it was Aquarian who made those kick click things that you aply to the head where the beater lands. Maybe it was Evans...I don't remember.

[Dahmen]

Originally Posted by maskedman72

what kick mic will get you that pantera kick drum sound best without grabbing for an eq or a sample?

im looking for a mic to have just for metal bands that want that type of kick sound. and we all know they all want that sound.

To me that stuff sounds very much like it is taken from the standard DDRUM-Module Sounds and then heavily EQed. Maybe a bit TOO much, but i like though.

[Lindell]

y'all is making it way to complicated here. Check this:
Shure SM91 $150 bux used, an Electrovoice RE20 $200 bux used. Place the SM91
inside the kick on the floor and the RE20 oustide. SEE HOW SIMPLE AND CHEAP!
And don't forget the eq the hell out of the mics....

The more exlusive route to go would be switching the RE20 to a U47fet.

[drew]

first of all, i wouldn't be so sure about a sample being involved. and please, if you don't have actual first hand knowledge, at least put "IMO" in with your comments.

secondly, Andy Wallace never worked with Pantera, you're thinking of Terry Date.

[Almost Human]

Originally Posted by everybody's x

sample worked here, it's a 24 bit file! thanks


heres my approximation with the gear I mentioned earlier, no sample mixed in

24bit/44.1

Sounds great. Can you share a little about mic placement and how it was EQ'd? Thanks! thumbsup