Music and Picture***** NEED A SOLUTION FAST!

[darkwater]

Ok, out of you guys who are working to picture, I need some fast solutions. We just got 2 40" flat screen monitors over here mounted so that clients can look at picture while listening to our sound design and music. The monitors have component video, DV, and S-video inputs. We really would prefer to use the component for better quality.

One room runs Logic Pro with PT HD3 hardware. The other room runs Logic Pro native with a LYNX AES16 card and AD-16x (that's me.) Both rooms use G5 Dual 2 Ghz machines that have the bogus AMD-8131 chip on the PCI bus. Maybe more info than you need. Anyway, yesterday we thought we were going to have to buy a 002R system for my room to make this all work with the AVID MOJO. Now, it seems that may not be enough. Logic is the DAW of choice for composing around here. I'm not even sure it's compatilble with the MOJO.

I need solutions for frame accurate quality picture playback with Logic Pro. What do ya got???

[BruceTheProduce]

if you wanna get component outs, you can use the canopus HDSC1. S video and RCA canopus ADVC110, these are really good. You can also get a RADEON 9800 Pro Mac edition, it is cheaper and delivers great results.

Good luck shopping

[musikman88]

Is that some relative of Tony Little, the obnoxious TV exercise guy that you used to model that animated icon from........don't take me wrong, no offense, but it just struck me that way this afternoon.

[darkwater]

That's Will Farrell in an SNL skit as the cowbell player in Blue Oyster Cult cutting on Don't Fear The Reaper. A great skit guest starring Christopher Walken as the record producer.

[gsilbers]

i dont understand well your question. are u looking for the optional video output in logic pro and its settings? this option will let you output the video through the different outputs youve got. if it doenst recognize or "see" one of the cards try 1st loading the video
on the card's regular program ( avid, Premier, FCP etc) and exporting it with the same settings (48k 16bit and same framerate). i dunno why but it hapens that sometimes
the video output of logic and pro tools wont send to 3party video cards or will send it all wierd looking.
if youre looking just for better quality, well i cant help u there as most of the post studios have the same problem. just tell the clients to understand.

are the 2 monitors connected together , so you can drag the mouse across both screens or seperate? you can choose in mac control panel monitors.
try different settings 1st with the monitors linked. try millions of colors then thousand of coloers.

then send in logics
video output to the different monitors. or just have the 2 monitors linked and use logics movie screen and drag it to the other screen, which will mean that youll have to share the movie with clients.

[kennyd03]

You might want to look into firewire devices as well. I use a second monitor for my clients, but I know some people use products like the Canopus and Dazzle.

Good luck,

-Kenny D

[ndogg]

We have 3 ProTools rooms running with Canopus ADVC110 (one may actually be an older ADVC100) and they work great. Very simple to use. In our 'big' room, the signal goes to a video distribution amp and runs to all video monitors, including a big plasma TV. It looks great. Not HD quality, I guess, but definitely decent.

I believe one of our writers uses this also and with Logic.

ndogg

[darkwater]

Guys thanks a TON. I'm going to look into this. We do want to try to use component video for better quality. Does anyone know if the Avid Mojo is even compatible with Logic Pro? I'm only asking because that's what these guys have been trying to sell us all along, and now that we have the monitors, suddenly I can't reach anybody to tell me what's compatible, etc.

Yesterday they told me it would work with PTLE hardware and the HD3 hardware, but I'm not sure that they are clear on our composing DAW of choice; Logic Pro. We do occasionally cut live player sessions to PT, but for the most part Logic gets the session because the MIDI functionality.
AND, now I find out that it doesn't work with LE. It's lookiing more and more like the Canopus options are the only ones we have.

Anybody verify?

[darkwater]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

i dont understand well your question. are u looking for the optional video output in logic pro and its settings? this option will let you output the video through the different outputs youve got. if it doenst recognize or "see" one of the cards try 1st loading the video

on the card's regular program ( avid, Premier, FCP etc) and exporting it with the same settings (48k 16bit and same framerate). i dunno why but it hapens that sometimes
the video output of logic and pro tools wont send to 3party video cards or will send it all wierd looking.
if youre looking just for better quality, well i cant help u there as most of the post studios have the same problem. just tell the clients to understand.

are the 2 monitors connected together , so you can drag the mouse across both screens or seperate? you can choose in mac control panel monitors.
try different settings 1st with the monitors linked. try millions of colors then thousand of coloers.

then send in logics
video output to the different monitors. or just have the 2 monitors linked and use logics movie screen and drag it to the other screen, which will mean that youll have to share the movie with clients.

What we thought we were going to do was have this beefy box that would relieve some of the strain from our computer to run DV QTs over our head for the clients to watch. Isn't it more taxing on the CPU to run a huge image out of the computer's DV output AND drive an intensive session, as well? I guess maybe I don't understand enough about the video end of this process. We don't want to be stuck with crashing every time we try to playback for the client.

What about the Canopus? Why should I buy one? Does it take a lot out of my CPU to run through that box? Less?

Thanks to anyone who takes an interest in helping me out here.

[D Pinder]

The Mojo needs some sort of Avid/Digi product to run it. It looks as though PT LE has lost support for MOJO in v7.0. For now, anyways.

I think Logic Pro will work with any DV box and the Aurora cards should be fine, too. I'm not sure what it is that you guys do over there, but every one of our composers, whether they compose in Logic Pro or Cubase all have a Pro Tools system which acts both as their video machines (one session per reel) and as the mixer that all the Gigas and outboard synths return into, complete with all the necessary bussing for printing stems, 5.1s, stereos and synth masters for mixing with the orchestra. Any Pro Tools machine that can take a MIDI in (that's all of them, even an MBox) can lock up to MTC (quarter-frame accurate). From a film/TV music standpoint, running video within the sequencer is a pain, since every cue you do requires you to import new picture back in, and when picture changes are turned over, you have to import that video and guide tracks for each cue again and again. Like I said, not sure what you're doing, so it may be no factor.

To answer your questions directly, the Canopus does take some CPU away and some FW bandwidth, but usually it's not THAT bad. Having said that, I use one every day, but with a PT TDM system, so I'm not running a lot of native stuff.

[D Pinder]

Also, have you thought about a Doremi V1 or the new Rosendahl box? They are standalone recorders you capture to from a tape and they lock to MTC and MMC, LTC (VITC for the V1 I think). The downside to these is the capture time, which is real time. If you get tapes only, it's ok, but we often get DV Quicktimes from the cutting room so we can start working in as much time as it takes to copy the files.

[D Pinder]

Originally Posted by darkwater

We do want to try to use component video for better quality.

S-Video should be adequate. What kind of picture should require component? I don't believe MOJO has component outs natively. There is a cable kit you can buy for it that converts it from S-video, so there may be no benefit.

Yesterday they told me it would work with PTLE hardware and the HD3 hardware, but I'm not sure that they are clear on our composing DAW of choice; Logic Pro.

Again, I vouch for the utility of a separate PT video machine/mixer.

AND, now I find out that it doesn't work with LE. It's lookiing more and more like the Canopus options are the only ones we have. Anybody verify?

You're right, it looks like LE lost MOJO support for v7.0. This may change, but I'm not sure why it is gone. If believe you can run 6.9 with Mojo.

I forgot to mention the Aurora Fuse-X card, which will play out most Quicktime codecs, including DV, MPEG-4 and Motion JPEG.

[XSergeantD]

Originally Posted by darkwater

That's Will Farrell in an SNL skit as the cowbell player in Blue Oyster Cult cutting on Don't Fear The Reaper. A great skit guest starring Christopher Walken as the record producer.

"we need more cowbell, and can ya give it a bit more energy"

But back to the question. How are you capturing the videos, what rate?
I'll give props to the canopus (around here it's pronounced can-o-piss). I've used and personally own the ADVC100, and have the ADVC110 at the studio here. I've done lock to picture with quicktime with no hickups, but when someone was working in HD, we used the HDCAM or whatever device for playing back and locked with synchronizers so they'd maintain the high resolution. But even then, they usually just dump to quicktime and send that over and we work via the Canopus w/ it's S-video out.

[darkwater]

Hi guys,

I really appreciate you guys offering up the info.

Mostly we do commercials and they give us QT to work from. So there is nothing to capture. D Pinder are you saying that your composers have 2 separate computers, running Logic and PT respectively? I'm kind of liking that idea, but it might be difficult to get the money man on board.

I don't know anything about any of the Aurora cards or any of the other options you mentioned. I did run my old "Can o' puss" today S-video into the new monitor and it worked ok for a minute, but then choked my session. CoreAudio error, blah, blah. The session is not even that intense yet. That's what scares me. I don't want to sacrifice precious CPU to do this. Have you experienced any SMPTE delay when using the Canopus?

[darkwater]

Originally Posted by D Pinder

Also, have you thought about a Doremi V1 or the new Rosendahl box? They are standalone recorders you capture to from a tape and they lock to MTC and MMC, LTC (VITC for the V1 I think). The downside to these is the capture time, which is real time. If you get tapes only, it's ok, but we often get DV Quicktimes from the cutting room so we can start working in as much time as it takes to copy the files.

So the DOREMI will copy a QT and that's all there is to it? I'm searching online for this now....

[ndogg]

hmmm... I'm not sure about how much CPU load the canopus is responsible for. I'll run some tests tomorrow.

As for SMPTE delay, on our ProTools systems we need to put in a 22 quarter frame offset (there is a special place to put this in) when running video out of the Canopus. Then we set it back to zero if running the video window in ProTools (ie, on the computer monitor).

I can ask our main writer tomorrow if he's got any other info regarding the Canopus with Logic.

It sounds like a stand-alone video playback system may be your safest bet if the Canopus is choking your system, though.

[D Pinder]

Originally Posted by darkwater

So the DOREMI will copy a QT and that's all there is to it? I'm searching online for this now....

No, the Doremi V1 only captures. The capturing idea doesn't sound good for you guys.

Yes, the composers have 2 machines, but depending on your needs, you can run the PT machine on a Mac Mini and an Mbox or a 002R. Here, it's all-sorts. Some guys are doing the Mbox/002 route but the guys doing the heavy lifting all have HD systems, purely for the inputs/DSP etc. It depends on your needs. you could theoretically print all your stems in Logic (though multiple passes is almost certain) but if you don't do stems, then it's really not a problem—just get a PT native system. You'll thank yourself for taking the video load off Logic.

Feel free to PM if you wanna.

[waves]

I'm having trouble with Pro Tools recognizing my Canopus ADVC 100. Anybody have any issues with this that can lend a hand?

Thanks