Preamp shootout - You may not believe this.

[absrec]

I originally posted a thread about these Calrec modules I just got. Well, today I did a shoot out with all of my other pres. The pres involved were as follows.

Vintech X73

Vintech 1272

Geoff Daking 52270

BAE 312

Calrec PQ15s

Demeter VTMP-2a

Signals recorded were kick, snare, oh (although, with little emphasis), bass and electric guitar.

Now let me just say that they all sounded good and were all more than usable. I wasn't even going to include the Demeter in the shoot out, but my partner convinced me to, just for a goof. I had to use Shure inline pads and knock them back 15 and 20 dB. But hey, it worked. Mics were typical. SM57 on snare, D112 in kick, 414B-ULS on oh, bass DI through countryman type 85, SM57 on elec guitar, standard placement. No eq. I made sure to hit the converters at roughly -10 (or +4 dBu as my inputs are calibrated to -14) on everything. I did this because I wanted to hear a little of what color everything had when you push it a little. We also took the time to automate the faders in protools from take to take so that everything was hitting the console the same way and that our judgements wouldn't be influenced by level differences.

There were a couple pres that shined in different areas. The 312 sounded the best on bass with the Demeter right behind it. On elec guitar, the Calrecs were great and the Dakings were out of site.

Now here is the shocker. On kick and snare, the Demeter VTMP-2a sounded the best out of all of them. It had the biggest image, the most (and coolest) bottom end. Now this is with the Calrecs on the overhead. There may have been some sort of happy marriage between them, but my friend and I were floored. Does anybody else know about these things? I bought it for like, $500. It seems like people are practically giving these things away.

[James Lugo]

I just shot out the same Demeter this week and loved it too. Very warm on vocals. Yummy!

[AB3]

Demeter is one of the most underrated pres. You can change the tubes on them and even increase their sound quality IMHO.

[absrec]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

I just shot out the same Demeter this week and loved it too. Very warm on vocals. Yummy!

You mean the one with almost NO options except a three step gain knob, phantom power, and a big output fader? Oh yeah, it has a DI, too. These pres were at an old garage studio I used to work in. I recently bought a U87ai and that thing for $1500. Honestly, the Demeter was kind of a throw in. I just love happy accidents! I mean, what are the chances that a tube preamp is going to crush a handful of Class A, discrete, transformer based units on kick and snare?

[Matthew Murray]

Hmm.. i can't figure out which preamp you guys are talking about. All of their preamps on their online store are far from $500.

http://www.demeteramps.com/store/

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Matthew Murray

Hmm.. i can't figure out which preamp you guys are talking about. All of their preamps on their online store are far from $500.

http://www.demeteramps.com/store/

its an older model than their available units.
usually found 2nd hand (or sometimes 3rd or 4th hand) for $500-$600.

[softwareguy]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[absrec]

I've been getting the "shush" quite a bit lately.

[softwareguy]

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. I just love that you can get these things for $300 a channel or less sometimes and I agree, they're really, really useful great sounding pres.

[swankdoc]

I notice the Vintechs didnt get mentioned in your results.......
hmmmmm.

[absrec]

Originally Posted by swankdoc

I notice the Vintechs didnt get mentioned in your results.......
hmmmmm.

Sorry, I said near the beginning of the post they all were "more than usable", or something to that effect.

I've had the Vintechs for a while. The Vintech snare in the mix, was pretty cool. Compared to everything else, it had SO much mids. Made the snare sound like a nasty trash can. Which was kinda cool, but there was some bottom end missing. The Daking wasn't good at all on snare. It was pretty nice on the kick. I generally use the Dakings on toms since they tend to sound enormous for that particular application.

I guess the point of my post was that I was just shocked that the Demeter sounded so good on kick and snare. I would think it would be cool for vocals, bass, gtr, etc. But drums?

[scott petito]

the demeters have been a go to bass pre for years for me...you can distort them just like a good tube amp it was/is literally my sound for fretless bass on about 300 albums.... I love my funkenwerks into a neve 1073 for my precision bass and my more modern basses like my parker fly or my bolin love the wunder pres.....

cheers
SP

[AB3]

The Demeter is good on almost anything, including flute and piano. However, I like changing the tubes on those preamps - Tele 12ax7s, Tele 12at7 or Mullard CV and if you can find them (tube outlet in England has them) - NEC 12bh7s. But the RCA 12BH7s can be very good too.

Originally Posted by absrec

Sorry, I said near the beginning of the post they all were "more than usable", or something to that effect.

I've had the Vintechs for a while. The Vintech snare in the mix, was pretty cool. Compared to everything else, it had SO much mids. Made the snare sound like a nasty trash can. Which was kinda cool, but there was some bottom end missing. The Daking wasn't good at all on snare. It was pretty nice on the kick. I generally use the Dakings on toms since they tend to sound enormous for that particular application.

I guess the point of my post was that I was just shocked that the Demeter sounded so good on kick and snare. I would think it would be cool for vocals, bass, gtr, etc. But drums?

[insomnio]

Demeter has been my favorite bass pre also. Huge and complete...
I wonder, what are the diferences between the a, b and c editions?

__________________
Insomnio

[fuzzface777]

Which daking model was used?

Has anyone compared the daking with other pres? Like a focusrite 430, gtq2, tg2, GR 2nv?

[Ruphus]

Sure I do.
Am recommending the brand since years.
No hype, all goods. thumbsup

Ruphus

[absrec]

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

Which daking model was used?

Has anyone compared the daking with other pres? Like a focusrite 430, gtq2, tg2, GR 2nv?

The 52270a vertical. I bought them in 2001 right before he stopped selling the vertical type. The Daking sounded ok on bass and snare. Kick, toms, oh, and gtrs sounded pretty damn good through them, though. I don't have access to Greatriver, Chandler, Aurora or Focusrite. Although I've heard great things about all of them. Unfortunately, the only Focusrite stuff I've used has been the Platinum series and the pres in the Digidesign Control24. I was not impressed in the least with either. But then again I've never been impressed with the Avalon 737 and people seem to like those.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by absrec

I did this because I wanted to hear a little of what color everything had when you push it a little.

Pupo

[absrec]

BTW, when I get a chance, I'm thinking about uploading the seven clips with the different pres as it's sitting on my desk at the moment. We recorded the riff to No Doubt's "Hellagood".

So, whatever pre was used on the kick and snare on any given clip was also used on the bass and elec guitar as well. We did it all to a click so if we wanted to, we could mix and match a little to hear the contrast between instruments, though we haven't done that yet.

Hopefully, I'll get around to dumping that stuff down tomorrow.

[absrec]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Pupo

I hope "Pupo" (???) is a good thing.

[absrec]

Aah... your name is Pupo! Ok. Forgive my lack of observance.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by absrec

I hope "Pupo" (???) is a good thing.

It' the best thing man! It's my last name!

Pupo

[jpupo74]

I just didn't understand that sentence. You wanted to push it after actually been recorded or before?????

[absrec]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

I just didn't understand that sentence. You wanted to push it after actually been recorded or before?????

What I was saying was, during tracking, rather than running everything at 0dBu (-14 on my converters) I ran stuff @ +4 dBu (-10 on my converters). In essence, I was driving them a bit to hear how they distort. Not full on clipping, just wanted to hear the color.

I hope this clears it up for you.

[Benjy King]

When I think back....everything Demeter I've ever used had an inherit fatness to it. I always just chalked it up to distortion! I recently listened to a record I did in 1993. The lead vocal chain was AT4033>Demeter Tube Mic Pre>Tube Tech EQ. Man, that shit sounded so *right*. I just finished mixing the best record I've made to date. The Bass was played by an incredible player using a beautiful sounding Lakeland Bass---chain: Demeter tube direct box>DBX160VU. Wow!

[AB3]

It is good to see Demeter mentioned here. I do not think they do quite the marketing as others do. Yet his designs have held up for many years and their equipment is well priced for what you get.

[max cooper]

Are Demeter mic preamps and Demeter guitar amps the same deal?

demeteramps.com wouldn't come up just now.

[chuckj]

I do freelance work in a home studio once a week or so. It has a 001 setup with only a Demeter VTMP2-B and the Demeter VTCL-2 for outboard. We pretty much track everything through it. It sounds really good on everything. I feel the comp is totally underrated also.

[insomnio]

...am I invisible here?
Again: Could anyone tell what the A, B and C stands for? What's the difference between those 3 models?
I'd always used a friends unit; don't recall which one though.

_______________________
Insomnio

[Jim Williams]

Anyone using the older Demeter stuff should be aware of safety issues. These use a brown lamp zip cord for ac, no grounding. The PCB sits just a 1/4 inch off the bottom plate. I find it's rather easy to bend the bottom up into the high voltage tube pins causing a short. Without the grounded AC cord, you become the discharge path. Shocking!

Put in a grounded AC cord and insulate the metal panel to avoid death.

I forgot to put this one into the "design flaws" thread.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades