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Apogee AD-8000/888/Pro Tools 9
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redbull
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#1
19th November 2010
Old 19th November 2010
  #1
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Apogee AD-8000/888/Pro Tools 9

We're currently running a 888/24 system with an Apogee AD-8000 for 16in/8out, running PT 5.

We'd like to use PT9, and we're trying to figure out a configuration that'd let us do this as cheap as possible while still retraining the AD-8000 and the same number of I/O's.

I'm thinking if we got the AD-8000 DAC VIII expansion card and used the 888/24 as standalone A/D, that would give us 16in/8out. But I'm not sure how this would all wire up with a soundcard.

We could use the AES/EBU outs on the AD-8000 and 888/24 to something like the Lynx AES-16E, but how would the output from the DAC VIII link up with this?

We really only use the outs in our current system for monitoring and sending headphone mixes.

Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks.
#2
24th May 2011
Old 24th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
We're currently running a 888/24 system with an Apogee AD-8000 for 16in/8out, running PT 5.

We'd like to use PT9, and we're trying to figure out a configuration that'd let us do this as cheap as possible while still retraining the AD-8000 and the same number of I/O's.

I'm thinking if we got the AD-8000 DAC VIII expansion card and used the 888/24 as standalone A/D, that would give us 16in/8out. But I'm not sure how this would all wire up with a soundcard.

We could use the AES/EBU outs on the AD-8000 and 888/24 to something like the Lynx AES-16E, but how would the output from the DAC VIII link up with this?

We really only use the outs in our current system for monitoring and sending headphone mixes.

Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks.
Hey redbull I would like to make similar upgrade. So did you try if it works?
#3
11th July 2011
Old 11th July 2011
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Hey guys,
Any reports on your adapting the AD 8000 to PT9?

And btw, how have you enjoyed the AD 8000 into the 888/24's? I never made the change to the front end of my 888's but have recently been seeing people selling the AD 8000's, so I've been considering getting a couple for my setup.

Thanks
Joey
#4
27th August 2011
Old 27th August 2011
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Any news or tricks to get the ad8000 working with PT9? I upgraded my 888's to the ad8000 and it was a huge improvement btw. I'd love to get out of pt6.4 and into pt9 for as cheap as possible. I'll upgrade convertors later if I can.
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#5
27th August 2011
Old 27th August 2011
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You'll need an interface of some sort that PT9 sees and will permit 16 AES I/O, and you'll have to decide who is the WC master. Then there's the issue of calibration and and the consideration of cross-conversion latency differences.
All of that aside (and I would believe them to be the secondary considerations), how do you want to get stuff in and out of your host computer? the Lynx card (RME has one too)? firewire?
it's a simple matter of cabling once you decide this, then clock, then calibrate.
The DAC VIII is a dsub out IIRC. These are how you monitor and send headphones I'm assuming...how do you get into your monitor controller and headphone system now? you can get a cable made that goes to an xlr fanout to connect to whatever you need.

Not a tough thing...but those converters are both long in the tooth, so there may be easier ways to accomplish what you need if you're concerned with being state-of-the-art.
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#6
27th August 2011
Old 27th August 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeycapucino View Post
Hey guys,
Any reports on your adapting the AD 8000 to PT9?

And btw, how have you enjoyed the AD 8000 into the 888/24's? I never made the change to the front end of my 888's but have recently been seeing people selling the AD 8000's, so I've been considering getting a couple for my setup.

Thanks
Joey
do it, the metering is brilliant.

Depending on your 8000's and what options you have installed, there are a number of ways to skin the proverbial cat:

-If they're bone stock, you're going AES... you could get the Weiss box that's a FireWire bridge, or you could buy the lynx or the RME card for your computer

-if they have the ADAT card option, go for something like the ProFire Lightbridge.

Last edited by kooz; 27th August 2011 at 02:36 AM.. Reason: removed stutter
#7
27th August 2011
Old 27th August 2011
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Hmmm. Makes me want to give it a go but I'm certainly nervous. I need to buy a Mac Pro, and probably the Lynx/RME card and PT9. I'm worried the jump from TDM to native, especially with an old converter, will add lots of latency. I've stuck with my old TDM system because of this.

I keep wondering if an mbox pro or babyface would be a cheaper and safer route, tho I don't need any preamps… just converters and an interface that can work with PT9 and let me track with a few plugins.


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#8
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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It's a BIG upgrade you're talking, mang...you may need to consider new converters...hopefully seperation anxiety isn't a thing with you.
work thru your pro audio dealer. they'll find a way to make the transition less painful.
#9
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamike View Post
Hmmm. Makes me want to give it a go but I'm certainly nervous. I need to buy a Mac Pro, and probably the Lynx/RME card and PT9. I'm worried the jump from TDM to native, especially with an old converter, will add lots of latency. I've stuck with my old TDM system because of this.

I keep wondering if an mbox pro or babyface would be a cheaper and safer route, tho I don't need any preamps… just converters and an interface that can work with PT9 and let me track with a few plugins.


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I guess it really depends how many I/O you need. PT9 will do 32 I/O max. If your machines have AES/EBU, than they could be interfaced with PT9 through cards like the RME AES32e or the Lynx AES16e, and then just getting some 110ohm AES DSUB snakes, your rocking. If you want to be seamless and bounce the old computer and TDM cards, then this would be the way, to avoid buying new hardware converters, but the choices open up when if your going to launch the entire TDM system, computer/converters and all.

I recently installed the Mbox Pro + PT9 into a clients studio running a powerful Imac. I tested it on my laptop, and also my Mac Pro 8-Core Machine. You can buffer to 32 samples with this hardware, and still be rock solid, in PT9, so I think its a great option to transition into a Native PT system. Maybe as things evolve, keep it as a mobile system for the future, if you require many more I/O. It does have some mic amps, and instrument amp's too, along with onboard GUI control mixer too, if you need it for input mixes for headphones. But latency is very low with these Mac Pro's, they are really powerful

FW Devices generally draw more DSP in the environment, but in my experience using the Avid FW hardware, your bullet proof with PT. I think this little interface is great for the money, it sounds fantastic, and build quality is high. Its actually pretty heavy in your hands and doesn't feel like a toy. The Stereo Attenuator is also fantastic on it, and the outputs are pristine and they sound similar to the HD I/O to me, right off the bat. Seems like there is very clean and high headroom electronics on these. The Headphone amps also sounded great to me.
#10
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Thanks guys.

I definitely DON'T have separation anxiety. I DO however have a fear of upgrading to a less powerful and insufficient system.

My current thoughts are to just get the M-Box 3 Pro (is this what you meant Moc Mixwell??) you said the M-Box 2 but i'm assuming you meant 3 by your description.

I rarely every need more than 2 inputs at once, i just figured since i already have the AD8000 that would be an easy way to get more I/O for the occasion i want to record drums.

My fear with the M-Box Pro is latency while tracking with heavy plugins in the session or a big plugin on the recording track. Also the inability to run sessions with lots of tracks/aux/bus/plugins.

I'd really love to test a system like i'm looking into. If not, at least get some secondhand specs on how many plugins/tracks and all that, that people are able to run and stay solid.

Lastly, ditching my AD8000 will help support the costs of the upgrade. Then i could get some cheaper 4 channel converters for the rare occasion i need to record more than 2 channels.
#11
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Wow. I just checked the specs a little closer here:
Avid Mbox Pro (Mbox Pro - Hardware Only) | Sweetwater.com

Looks like i had my info mixed up. I didn't realize M-Box Pro was firewire or that it had up to 8 I/O. I'll still have to look a little closer to make sure it does what i need.
#12
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamike View Post
My current thoughts are to just get the M-Box 3 Pro (is this what you meant Moc Mixwell??) you said the M-Box 2 but i'm assuming you meant 3 by your description.
Sorry, it is this one;
Avid | Mbox Pro

I guess its just "MBOX PRO" now....
#13
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Sorry, it is this one;
Avid | Mbox Pro

I guess its just "MBOX PRO" now....
Yes. . . we're referring to the same one. It's the 3 or 3rd gen apparently.
#14
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Hi. I have enjoyed latency free tracking for years with an apogee ad8000SE/888 (x2) rig. I have 24 i/o. Only issue is not many plugins available. I am running this with a G4. It is Rock Solid.

I also have a mac mini and I purchased an Avid Mbox Pro with pt 9 upgrade, so that I could experiment with new plugins and to finally have Automatic Delay Compensation.

Trust me on this, the mbox "pro" is not gonna be pro enough for you. Also, it is advertised as being 8x8... but I find it's actually 4 mic inputs, 4 line inputs, and 6, not 8 analog outs. If you want an additional 2 outputs, you will have to buy a spdif d/a converter. or you could route your channels 7/8 to the unbalanced headphone outs, which may or may not feel like working on a given day.

I am having a tough time familiarizing myself with the glossy look of pt 9 as well. I still much prefer 6.4.1. There are a few really annoying small differences such as F5 +F6 or F7 won't switch to smart tool.

However I am enjoying having cool new plugins. Honestly, you're probably much better going with the m-audio profire and keeping the ad8000 in your setup wired with adat. no experience with that though.

Actually, if I had to do it all over again, Remember this: you don't need to buy an interface to use pro tools anymore!! So just buy PT9, run it on your core audio, mix in the box with headphones connected to your computer. You're still gonna wanna track with the apogees. Seriously.
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31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danly View Post
Hi. I have enjoyed latency free tracking for years with an apogee ad8000SE/888 (x2) rig. I have 24 i/o. Only issue is not many plugins available. I am running this with a G4. It is Rock Solid.

I also have a mac mini and I purchased an Avid Mbox Pro with pt 9 upgrade, so that I could experiment with new plugins and to finally have Automatic Delay Compensation.

Trust me on this, the mbox "pro" is not gonna be pro enough for you. Also, it is advertised as being 8x8... but I find it's actually 4 mic inputs, 4 line inputs, and 6, not 8 analog outs. If you want an additional 2 outputs, you will have to buy a spdif d/a converter. or you could route your channels 7/8 to the unbalanced headphone outs, which may or may not feel like working on a given day.

I am having a tough time familiarizing myself with the glossy look of pt 9 as well. I still much prefer 6.4.1. There are a few really annoying small differences such as F5 +F6 or F7 won't switch to smart tool.

However I am enjoying having cool new plugins. Honestly, you're probably much better going with the m-audio profire and keeping the ad8000 in your setup wired with adat. no experience with that though.

Actually, if I had to do it all over again, Remember this: you don't need to buy an interface to use pro tools anymore!! So just buy PT9, run it on your core audio, mix in the box with headphones connected to your computer. You're still gonna wanna track with the apogees. Seriously.
How can i track with the apogees, thru the profire or something similar?

4 i/o is enough for me, for now. I do hip-hop 98% of the time. Some acoustics and other things.

I've heard about latency with the 3rd party converters though, and some aren't super stable apparently. 3rd party's can only go down to 64 buffer so i'm told. This makes me really nervous.

The most annoying part is buying a Mac Pro too. My G5 won't cut it on a native system, and i'd hate to buy a new Mac to find out it's not enough, or there is latency during tracking. Ahh!
#16
31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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I've had great success using 888/24's & AD-8000's via a Lynx AES16 or a Lynx L22 with AES daughter boards.
Slave the Lynx & AD8000 to incoming AES & use superclock between the 888/24's in standalone mode.
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31st August 2011
Old 31st August 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamike View Post

I've heard about latency with the 3rd party converters though, and some aren't super stable apparently. 3rd party's can only go down to 64 buffer so i'm told. This makes me really nervous.
Where did you hear this? Standalone converters have the same speed/limitations as built in audio interface converters. What you might be thinking of is that PT "somewhat" compensates for it's manufactured I/O boxes.

For most tracking/monitoring tasks it's a non issue. If you keep grouped channels on the same converter type your all set. There is an offset between different converter boxes of a few samples. Only a problem if you do parallel processing over the different i/o boxes.
If your a perfectionist like myself you can time-align everything following my tutorial.

DAW + Audio Interface & multiple AD\DA timing calibration. | 1313



...
#18
1st September 2011
Old 1st September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythminmind View Post
Where did you hear this? Standalone converters have the same speed/limitations as built in audio interface converters. What you might be thinking of is that PT "somewhat" compensates for it's manufactured I/O boxes.
I've read it enough times on here to get scared. It's not that the 3rd party's are inferior by any means. . . what i've read is that PT gets all weird when you try to run under 64 buffer with a non-avid box.

I'll look into the Lynx.

I don't mind ditching everything I have. I just want minimum 2 channels of mid to high end conversion, low latency, and stability.
I don't need preamps.
I run between 50-80 tracks. 6-12 stereo busses. A bunch of sends. And a bunch of plugins (waves renn, echoboy, massey, autotune, mcdsp filterbank).

Lot's of rappers require tracking thru autotune or echoboy, I don't mind doing it (don't start that discussion either, my clients want it so i give it to em), so latency while tracking a big session and having a plugin on the record track --- that's why i'm so scared.

It's super easy with my old TDM system, but i need the new versions of Pro Tools and I really want ADC.
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1st September 2011
Old 1st September 2011
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I see. Well if you only need two channels for i/o , I highly recomend staying away from anything usb if you need to run with low buffers. Get something pci- based. Lynx l22 is really hard to beat. Other then that I would pickup an audiophile192 & a two channel larvy , etc

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1st September 2011
Old 1st September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamike View Post
It's super easy with my old TDM system, but i need the new versions of Pro Tools and I really want ADC.
OLD TDM? Mix or HD? HD is still current and supported, but Mix support has been dropped I think. You need to talk with your pro audio dealer, sir. They'll point out the options.
#21
1st September 2011
Old 1st September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kooz View Post
OLD TDM? Mix or HD? HD is still current and supported, but Mix support has been dropped I think. You need to talk with your pro audio dealer, sir. They'll point out the options.
I have a G5 running Pro Tools Mix+++++ TDM 6.4.1 on OSX 10.3.9

It's been unsupported for 5 years or more.
If i had HD none of this would be an issue, since I could just upgrade right to PT9 and call it a day
#22
3rd September 2011
Old 3rd September 2011
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doesn't (shouldn't) owe you anything...time for change. The improvements in conversion and software since those days have been pretty sizable...are you sure you can't do a hardware exchange/upgrade??? A dealer could tell you (if you're the registered owner, that is...) There HAS to be a path for you.
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