NOS tubes - Rode K2 - Why I don't hear any difference?

[DivineMusic]

i put a amperex bugle boy tube in my k2 and it sound a hole lot warmer. the highend is so much smoother and the mids are much warmer...

perhaps you need to upgrade your pre or converters...
what kinda pre and converters do you have

[Purusha]

I used Amek CiB as preamp and EMU 1820M (24bit 44.1Khz) waited 20 minutes for tubes to warm up before recording. I got them from a local tech guy who is really a great guy and I trust him 100% that he knows what he is talking about when he says that 20 minutes is enough to warm up a tube. He said this stock of tubes are very rear. The only thing might be that the guy who sold this tubes cheated him. The price for this tubes are 20$ but never the less, he is not a rip off guy like many others.

I will record my guitar and harmonium today for another test (24bit 96Khz). Maybe recording the monitors isn't enough revealing.

Purusha

[area51recording]

I don't use my NTK all that often. I like it on some male vox. I find that I like it more if I really let that sucker warm up good, maybe an hour or so. I'm still using the stock tube.

[Jack Pettit]

As far as I know you can't buy a NOS Telefunken tube 12ax7 for less than about $90.00

Have a look between the pins and if it does'nt have a diamond shape made into the glass it's not a Telefunken.

This information is based on nothing more than my experience with tubes,
but I am somewhat of a tube nut.

[wallace]

You should be able to hear a little bit of difference with a better tube in the Rode mics. I was able to with my NTK. Try a few different pres and see what you think. Record some stuff and make some CDs to listen to in a few different places. You should get a feel for what the tube sounds like then.

BTW, what's that harmonium like?

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by Jack Pettit

As far as I know you can't buy a NOS Telefunken tube 12ax7 for less than about $90.00

Have a look between the pins and if it does'nt have a diamond shape made into the glass it's not a Telefunken.

This information is based on nothing more than my experience with tubes,
but I am somewhat of a tube nut.

ya.... I just read info that said that there are a few company selling knockoff tubes or name brand reject tubes. be on the lookout and buy from a well know company.

[84K]

Not everything 'new' and 'old' sounds 'better' or even 'good.'

Tubes are inconsistant a lot of times. bad tube, maybe not the right tube to complement the mic, could be a million things. Just don't expect a tube to make the mic go from B to A in every instance. Best Of Luck!!

[gregl]

Looking at the emblem won't tell you much, since the rip off artists are pretty good at creating believable emblems. You really have to look at the internal
structure.

[Purusha]

Originally Posted by Jack Pettit
As far as I know you can't buy a NOS Telefunken tube 12ax7 for less than about $90.00

Have a look between the pins and if it does'nt have a diamond shape made into the glass it's not a Telefunken.

This information is based on nothing more than my experience with tubes,
but I am somewhat of a tube nut.

Does my attached picture reveale this diamond thing?

I am not so sure that only a company can provide you a good tube. My friend got them from the army stocks. As far as I know the army uses only the best tubes on the planet.

BTW, what's that harmonium like?

check it out here http://www.binaswar.com/harmonium1.htm

I will post two or three short samples of guitar and harmonium recorded with three different tubes. Any you can let me know which is which

Purusha

[Purusha]

Originally Posted by gregl

Looking at the emblem won't tell you much, since the rip off artists are pretty good at creating believable emblems. You really have to look at the internal
structure.

Would a few close up pictures reveal you this? I can make them if you are willing to give me this type of help.

Purusha

[C/G]

That is indeed a Telefunken tube. What kind of tube is it any way?

[Purusha]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

That is indeed a Telefunken tube. What kind of tube is it any way?

It's ECC 88 with space before 88, I heared that only the special ones have this space...


Right now I am warming the next tube for more testing

Purusha

[Purusha]

OK. I made some samples. 3 guitar and 3 harmonium takes. Let's take this more as a fun blind test. I am really curious who will hear the difference. This takes are done with original China tube, NOS Telefunken and NOS Gold pinned Siemens but not in that order.

Please let me know if you hear any subtle differences in these takes and if you can, than tell us at least which one was made with China tube

I did finally noticed some subtle differences in guitar takes, but I would never pay 50-100$ for such subtle difference. I will take a few of these NOS tubes for the future replacements since they are available to me for a price of regular china tubes.

Purusha

[Purusha]

Here we go

[Purusha]

And the third guitar....

[Purusha]

Oh, if you think the drums are just in the way I can post samples without them.

Purusha

[DivineMusic]

perhaps you need to let the tube warm up more or perhaps the tube has seen better days b/c they don't look new. and at $20 they can't be
i got my 2 bugle boy 6922's for $100 which was a great price imo
i let the k2 warm up for at least an hour before use.

i'm thinking of replacing the K2 with a Gemini

[Purusha]

For the last test I did let them warm up for an hour.

Yes they don't look new because they were made 35 years ago. Was your tube like new when you got it? Don't be pulled by the price. The price doesn't mean a thing when you come to such tubes in a different way than through some company who makes a fortune by selling you NOS tubes

Did you leasten the samples?

Purusha

[Purusha]

Hey DivineMusic are you willing to make a test with your China tube and new bugle boy 6922 for $50?

It would be fun to hear it.

Purusha

[gregl]

Originally Posted by Purusha

Would a few close up pictures reveal you this? I can make them if you are willing to give me this type of help.

Purusha

There are a lot of different NOS internals. There have been some excellent articles on this, the one I recall was in a magazine called "Vacuum Tube Valley". I know there are others but can't locate them at the moment. If I know the date code and I have (or can look at) a similar tube I try to make a comparison with the e-bay picture. But manufacturing processes and design changed on many tubes
(including 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 types) for any given brand over time. But if you can locate the Vacuum Tube Valley article on 6DJ8s this would probably be a great help(check their web site).

[Purusha]

Is there any good samaritan who would post his A/B test with his NOS tube vs midiocre China made tubes?

I would really like to hear what am I missing. I did some search and all my tubes seam to be the authentic NOS tubes, but somehow I am not impressed by the very subtle change which I hear. Some say it is a day and night change, so I guess the change should be more than just a subtle smoothness. Maybe I can't perceive it has anyone checked my samples?

Purusha

[Purusha]

I guess it's not a big interest in my thread anymore so I will just thank you all for giving your input.

One more thing, I am starting to notice pleasant differences in my guitar test recordings. The trick is that I leasten one track a few times before switching to another. In this way my ears and brain absorb the sound nicely and reacts to the next one with more obvious difference. So far the Siemens gold pinned tubes sound more smooth in high end than the Telefunken versions which I got for the "test before buy". I will keep two NOS Siemens tubes and maybe hunt down some more convincing NOS Telefunken versions.

Regards, Purusha

[DivineMusic]

Originally Posted by Purusha

Hey DivineMusic are you willing to make a test with your China tube and new bugle boy 6922 for $50?

It would be fun to hear it.

Purusha

man i'd do it for free but i don't even have the tube the mic came with anymore.
after putting the bugle boy in there and hearing a big difference in the mids and the highs being so smooth i tossed that tube. i bought 2 bugle boys and got a hook up deal b/c a nos bugle boy 6922/ecc88 will run about $90 each online
my tubes are a the holland issue too.. i love the way the bugle boy tube sound in the k2>focusrite isa220>apogee>002 via adat

when i used waves paz meters i saw an overall flater spectrum vs the stock tube.. and for some reason the stock tube had a big dip at 250hz... the bugle boy doesn't.
if you have paz meters let me know if you have a big dip at 246-252hz.. perhpas my tube was already going bad...

[sheltersoton]

hi,

i listened to the guitar takes i'm pretty interested in what the different tubes were... to my humble ears "b" sounded most like the only valve mic i have (a gt66 which has its uses) it had a kind of glassyness to it.. the other two sounded slightly clearer and less "affected".. this could just be rubbish though but i thought i'd stick my head out and say i prefered "a" and "c"

haha go on tell me they were all the same or A and C were the worst ones e

[Purusha]

Hi Sheltersoton,

thanks for your listening. I will wait a little more with results just for fun. I would really like to hear what others say before telling revealing it. Stay tunned.

Purusha

[Tubefreak]

Those tubes look like they have lots of hours on them. A good old Telefunken/Siemens/etc tube should sound much better then a Russian or Chinese version. Unless the old tube is worn out or of bad production. Looking at the photo's.... those are not NEW old stock. More like USED old stock.

I replace JJ's, Sovteks, Chinese tubes all the time in (my) gear with Mullards, Telefunkens, RFTs, Tesla, etc. And everytime the difference is nothing less then clear.....

Maarten
www.tubefreak.com

[Purusha]

These tubes were all kept in a military place. The guy who got them is convinced that they are not used. He says that they were not kept in a normall small carton boxes but all together in one bigger box.

Have you listened to the guitar samples?

What about JJ's are they the same as Chinesse or Russian? I heared otherwise.

Purusha

[Tubefreak]

Haven't listened to the samples. It's after midnight where I live.....

JJ's are ok, not great, but certainly ok. I prefer them over almost any other current production tubes from Sovtek, EH, etc. But.... they really do not come close to good NOS tubes. Recently changed the JJs in my Sebatron VEQC-2000 with Mullards. Difference was good

just my 2cents
Maarten
www.tubefreak.com

[69 Sound]

Originally Posted by Purusha

This takes are done with original China tube, NOS Telefunken and NOS Gold pinned Siemens but not in that order.Purusha

Ok, Listened to the guitar samples...

I noticed they are all mp3 files which makes it a little bit harder to hear subtle differences, but if I had to guess I'd say #1 is China #2 is Siemens #3 is Telefunken.

To my ears listening on my pc speakers(since my daw never goes online)

#1 is a bit boxy and muddy in the low mids a bit 2D

Both #2 and #3 seemed more open and even.

Out of the guitar samples #3 was my favorite.

Words I'd use to describe it would be open, balanced, smooth with a higher harmonic content.

Who knows I may have just picked the Chinese tube but IMO it sounded the best from the samples posted and if that's the case then all it really means is it was the best match for the K2.

Looking forward to hearing which tube is which...

Regards,

Chris