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| Lives for gear | Oktava MK219 stock versus mod head basket versus mod electronics
Okay folks, this is a thread for your reading pleasure that attempts to compare the Oktava MK219 stock, with the head basket mods and then with the head basket and electronics mod. I have seen and listened to a number of things online (including on Gearslutz) where the MK219 and MK319 are compared with other microphones which was helpful in deciding that I wanted to get into the wonderful world of the Oktava microphones, but I really had not read very much or heard anything comparing the 219 in the varying stages of modification. My inspiration and direction for the project came from many sources, but most notably from an article by Mr. Scott Dorsey. You can read it for yourself right here: - Oktava MC-219/319 Upgrades : Recording Magazine - Of course there is all the wonderful and useful information at Oktavamod Award-winning microphone engineering from Michael Joly, but naturally everything there points a person to sending a mic to Mr. Joly for him to do the work and I like a good DIY project, so the Dorsey article gave me a good deal to mull over. I found through my searches for more information Mr. Bill Sitler who has some DIY kits and that is where I ended up acquiring my electronics from: Oktava MK-219 Modification Kits and Service It made sense for me to utilize Mr. Sitler's kit because going through seeking all the parts myself was too time consuming and probably not cost effective. (But I could be wrong about the cost effective part) So what I did was acquire three MK219 mics and then set them up and compared them. Two of the mics sounded very similar and true to the claims of many people on here, one of the mics has a different sound--so it is true, they are not consistent in their sound. But not wildly different either, at least not in my experience. So I took what was the best sounding of the three in its stock form and kept that as my example of a stock 219. The other two mics I took apart. Some things to watch out for if you are brave enough to try this out... there is a little copper tab between the two mic body shells at the XLR jack. Do not lose this. It joins the two shells with the ground. You need it in there. Also, the single screw that holds the shell together also has a secondary thread to it that holds the circuit board to half of the body shell. You must unscrew that to get the thing completely apart. So I removed the inner mesh on the head baskets, nipped the head baskets frames apart, filed down the little metal parts sticking up from the head basket cage I nipped away, added the silicon to the interior of the bodies to dampen resonances, and then painted the raw metal exposed from the filing and cutting. I removed the black plastic resonator disc from both mics. I then replaced the inner mesh to the bodies using a hot glue gun to hold everything in place. If you ever take the black plastic resonator disc off your MK219/ 319 mic capsule be VERY, VERY careful. It would be way too easy to punch a screw driver through the membrane of the capsule. At that point one of the two mics I planned to mod was done--I put it back together. The third mic I then used the electronics kit to replace parts on the circuit board, as per the kits and the magazine article's directions. It was not hard. Everything was well marked. One of the capacitors has a larger diameter set of leads though and it required boring out the through holes on the board for that one part. Now for the good stuff... Or mostly good, anyway. I have three sound sources here for you to listen to and judge for yourself the merits of changing the mics up or not. Be advised, that while great care was taken to make sure the three mics received the same signal, the same signal path treatment and set to the same output volume level, great care was NOT taken in providing a pristine take. So if the singing gets flat or sharp or if you hear a drum stick hit the rim, get over it. What we have is an acoustic guitar, a mono OH for a drum set and a vocal take. It is the same song and if you wanted to, you could probably figure out how to combine all the parts on your DAW if you wanted to hear everything at once. The takes are not very long, but they should give you enough information to draw some conclusions about the performance of the mics. We will start on this post with the acoustic guitar... |
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| | #2 |
| Lives for gear |
okay, here are the mono OH drum clips:
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| | #3 |
| Lives for gear |
and here are the vocal file clips:
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| | #4 |
| Lives for gear |
Everyone needs to draw their own conclusions from this sort of thing, but it was really easy for me to hear the differences. I was sure there would be differences, but I was not certain if it would be worth the effort or not, or if simply changing the head basket and no electronics changes would be enough. Well I think it is pretty clear that the mic with the mods to the head basket AND the electronics is superior. It is not sibilant, it is more open sounding, has better detail and definition and the frequencies seem better represented across the spectrum to my ears. I fully intend to change up the other two mics in the near future. I also really like the microphone. It sounds very good. Plus it is different from the other mics I have, so it was totally worth buying and modding (or if you chose to do so for yourself--have someone else mod it) I will probably even buy a fourth mic so I have a nice little set--I like them that much. Just speculating, I am pretty sure Oktavamod would be different from what I have. Mr. Joly is quite clear in his writing that he has spent time researching to find the best FET for the mic mod to his ears. I am sure it is a great fit. And I guess the same could be said for the JJ Audio folks with their MK219/ 319 mods. I am very happy with my DIY effort, but you do need some electronics confidence to pull this off. This is not really a first-time sort of DIY project if you have never spent any time getting to know your soldering iron. So I am not suggesting in any way that everyone should do what I did here. But I am suggesting that if you have a 219 or 319, get that puppy in the shop and have it modified! Electronics AND head basket both, because to my ears, it is the way to go--well worth it. |
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| | #5 |
| Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 206
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I agree that the second clip (headbasket mod with electronics mod) sounds the best. The electronics-only mod sounds very present, almost to the point of being harsh. The highs sound more pleasing in the headbasket mod version. The stock version sounds dull and lifeless. BTW I listened to these on small laptop speakers so it was impossible for me to judge the lows.
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| | #6 |
| Lives for gear |
Hmmm... maybe I was not clear... the samples listed as head basket mod DO NOT have any electronics change to them. The clips that say electronics mod have both the head basket and electronics mods. Unless that is what you were saying as well.
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| | #7 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2006 Location: Glenwood MD
Posts: 639
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__________________ Best, Jim Jacobsen Founder JJ Audio ![]() Making Music sound better, one mic at a time ![]() Available at: Sales and customer support: | |
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| | #8 |
| Gear maniac Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Vancouver, Wa
Posts: 234
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Thanks for posting this. I have a 219 that I think sounds great on my voice and have been considering mods but didn't want to change the things I like about the mic either. Some times it's best to leave good enough alone...know what I'm saying? I would have been interested to hear the electronics mod without the headbasket mod but you can't please everybody. I think with the mods it increased the clarity which could be good or bad, depending on the source. This certainly gives me somthing to ponder. thanks again for taking the time.
__________________ Gear: Onyx 400F, Focusrite Scarlett, VP312 Oktava MK219, MXL 2003A, AT Pro25 (2) 603's, SM57, (2) CAD M179 Symetrix 501 |
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| | #9 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Central, IL
Posts: 1,102
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Sounds good to me! I love modding the oktava mics, the improvement is so quick and satisfying. And cheap! What is your next mod project? I've considered an apex 460 w/a peluso cap, but then I read that the peluso caps are probably just re-named decent chinese caps, and got discouraged from the whole project. But then you can't believe everything you hear!
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| | #10 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
For me, the things I like about the stock mic are greatly improved with the mods.I know what you mean about wishing to hear the mic modded with electronics but not changing the head basket. I had three mics and this is just the way I decided to go. I also thought it would be of most interest to folks since the article by Mr. Dorsey gave the recipe for changing up the head basket and THEN the electronics. I guess I get an A for effort but a C for original thought. But then, I never claimed this was new ground, just an academic exercise to maybe hear a little more completely the differences between stock and the two stages of modification. I am glad you found some measure of this helpful. When trying to decide if you will have your microphone changed, I think there can't be enough information. And since I am not trying to sell anything, I thought it would be nice to have another view of these mods from one consumer to the rest of everyone else. | |
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| | #11 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
I figured you good people at JJ Audio, Mr. Joly, Bill Sitler and anyone else doing these mods all have their own take on changing up the circuit. I think it's interesting how people take different paths to get to the same (or similar) place! I suppose in a world where I had unlimited funds, I would get pairs of 219/ 319 mics from all you people, but that is not my world. | |
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| | #12 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
After that I have an old Ampex AM-10 that I am in the middle of figuring out, fixing up and making useful. It is the solid state mixer/ mic pre they made. The one I have has only two of the pramp cards left in it and someone 'upgraded' the boards with lower quality capacitors. I foolishly leapt into this project before I really gave the whole thing a good look. The person who had it before me also 'upgraded' the power supply to something that is likely to catch on fire. So I am looking at a new power supply OR using 48volts of phantom power to do the power supply work. I am finding that the audio output transformers on this thing rolls of the low frequencies, so I think they are going bye, bye.After THAT, I am not sure, but maybe another microphone or a Five Fish project, or maybe a Baby Animal pre. That might not be until the end of 2011 or into 2012, the way life gets moving. | |
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| | #13 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
I know that the Cinemag transformer in my Royer Country boy build with my MK319 capsule, is HUGE compared to the transformer in the MK319. And I love the sound of that microphone! I even got a bit of JJ Audio in there with a nice giant film output coupling cap! My absolute favorite mic on out kick, pure chocolate! If there's any way a certain someone (who likes venison burritos) could squeeze a bigger/better transformer, maybe even something like a Tab Funkenwerk tranny I would love to hear it HAR HAR. Peace Illumination
__________________ Langston Masingale Sales and Customer Support @ JJ Audio Mics, USA ![]() **JJ Audio Custom Mics and Mods!!** JJ Audio Mics Email (Langston/Sales and Customer Support) Artists recently recorded with JJ Audio Mics: Ronnie Spector, Baby Bash, Paula DeAnda, Z-Ro, Slim Thug and the list continues to grow... http://soundcloud.com/illacov/jj-cd-vo-demo | |
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| | #14 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
You know I have a good friend in Maryland who can bring that thing back to life for ya! Peace Illumination | |
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| | #15 | ||
| Lives for gear | Quote:
The output transformers are generic ones produced by some outfit from Indiana or someplace like that. The company must have won a contract for the production of the AM-10, because their history is strictly electrical transformers, not audio. Anyway, the output transformer does not do anything all that impressive. Naturally it isolates the signal, but the OT rolls of the low end VERY noticeably--starting at around maybe 500 Hz. With a low-mid boost of e.q., you can bring it back, but if I pull the OT out of the circuit, the low-end loss does not happen, so THAT seems like the way to go. If I really feel like I am missing something via the OT with the AM-10, I'll pick up some Cinemag trannies at a later date. Or not. Quote:
Do they like venison burritos at Cinemag? I have had good dealing with those folks, even amidst serious family tragedy. Plus their transformers sound great. Good service and good products. You have got to love it. Did you pirate the 319 capsule out of something else for your Franken-mic, or were you somehow able to obtain one from Russia? That'd be pretty sweet if those folks would sell their capsules outright. To the best of my knowledge, that is not an option. | ||
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| | #16 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
Regarding the venison burritos, that was me poking Jim in the ribs. Since he and I enjoy discourse on things such as the stock transformer in the MK319. I think Marik made a good point regarding the transformer in the 319, its very tiny and by upgrading to a larger or differently made transformer you can change the sonic performance of the circuit, possibly to your benefit. I can understand how this simple principle applies. If you don't mind a bit of conjecture, one of the things that was modded in the U87 was the transformer, which for all intents and purposes is small considering the job it performs. However the transformer in the U87 is a huge part of the sound of the microphone. This didn't stop folks like Klaus Heynes from utilizing Oliver at Tab Funkenwerk to make a "better suited," transformer for the job, by maximizing the size of the transformer that the space inside the microphone allowed, to gain an increase in performance. Mind you I have NEVER heard a Klaus Heynes modded U87, however, considering that we have added the rather beefy JJ GRY to our U87 modded V67G and 2001 (Greyhound and Chocolate Lab respectively) which greatly improved the sonic performance of the microphone, headroom and tone wise, I feel that Klaus' feelings were justified. Therefore I still feel that if its at all possible, there's still a bit of tweaking to be done with the MK319 circuit/transformer combination. I'd also love to throw an MK319 capsule inside one of the modded V67Gs with a Jensen JJ GRY, leave the filtering intact and all! I'd wager it would sound SUPERB!thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup Peace Illumination | |
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| | #17 |
| Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 206
| OK, I was a little confused there. I do still prefer the headbasket mod clips for some reason. The electronics mod clips are the cleanest for sure, but they are almost a bit too bright in my opinion. Of course, take this with a grain of salt. I currently have no monitors, so I'm listening to these on laptop speakers. If I heard these on real monitors my opinion might change drastically. Either way, both of the modifications completely blow away the stock version. Good job! thumbsup
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| | #18 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
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| | #19 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2003 Location: Gilbert Az
Posts: 527
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I modified my head basket, and dampened the body. Huge difference for me.
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| | #20 |
| Lives for gear | further MK-219 info regarding the head basket
UPDATE--I recently added the electronics mods to the other two MK-219 mics and left the head basket intact on one of them to hear the differences with the stock head basket, but modded electronics. I really sort of hoped the stock head basket would have a good sound, because I actually like the look of these microphones, despite their ugly step sister appearance. Well I finally had the opportunity to do some serious listening this past week... Well, to cut directly to the chase, the stock head basket did not in any way sound as good as the modded head basket, even with the electronics mods. Bummer. It's not like it is difficult for me to make the additional changes to the mic body by removing the grill, I just think it looks cool. However, looks are not everything--the sound is more important here, so I will be switching that mic body out the rest of the way as well.I do not plan to post any audio examples of this comparison, even though maybe I should just for the sake of being thorough. I can't remember if I kept any of the files! If I did, maybe I'll post some stuff, but do not hold your breath on this one. The bottom line is the stock head basket is NOT worth keeping in tact when compared to the modded, open head basket. I could not think of any situation where I would have ever wanted to choose the stock head basket over the modded version--ever. I would choose another mic before I would do that. So changing it up the rest of the way is an easy choice to make.The end of the story is--all the mic modders are right--the MK-219 stock is okay, but with the head basket, body resonance and electronics mods, it is top shelf, first rate, and rather unique in its excellent sound reproduction and fits snuggly into its own place in a mic locker (at least it does in MY mic locker!). |
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| | #21 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 549
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My Joly modded 319 probably gets the most use out of all my vocal mics. It's also wonderful on cello and violin, and overheads, and guitar amps, and...well, you get the idea.
__________________ Dave recordla.com www.myspace.com/dbwproductions Logic 9.1.5, DP 7.24, PT 9.3, Reaper 4, Apogee Symphony, professional studio great for songwriters and producers. |
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| | #22 |
| Lives for gear |
i have one Bill Sitler modded 319, and am waiting on a second one. I love the sound of this mic, easily among the best I have. However I do think the transformer is the weak link, as in a direct comparison to another mic I have with a Tab tranny, the 319 is not quite as "fulsome" sounding in the lower register. Not bad by any means, but I believe the stock tranny is holding the mic back, just a little, from being a true world-beater. IMHO. YMMV. Thanks to the OP for a nice thread.
__________________ _______________________________________________ Ed Billeaud - Snowflake Studio ___________________________________________ The human species, with few exceptions, is a crime against nature. Be an exception. |
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| | #23 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 990
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@ Puffer Fish Quote.. The other two mics I took apart. Some things to watch out for if you are brave enough to try this out... there is a little copper tab between the two mic body shells at the XLR jack. Do not lose this. It joins the two shells with the ground. You need it in there. Also, the single screw that holds the shell together also has a secondary thread to it that holds the circuit board to half of the body shell. You must unscrew that to get the thing completely apart... end Quote Where exactly does it fit ? Could you explain a little further please. Thanks Macky |
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| | #24 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
If you unscrew the clam-shell body, it will pull apart into two pieces--where the XLR jack/ shaft goes between the clam-shell body, there will be two little copper tabs about a 1/2 long and a 1/16 inch wide--they make the grounding connection between the clam-shell body and the ground on the circuit board, and presumably the ground from pin 1 on the XLR cable. Without those copper tabs in there, the ground will not happen between the circuit board and the clam-shell body and 'BBBZZZZZZZZZUUUUMMMMMMMM' happens. tutt And the crews holding the two clam shell body parts and the circuit board together... There is a single screw on the exterior of the microphone. If you take that out, you will be able to pull apart the front half of the clam shell and the circuit board remains attached to the back of the mic/ clam shell. In the same exact spot where the first screw unthreaded from the circuit board/ body of the mic, you will see the hole where the screw attaches--this screw hole has a slot on top where you use a flat head screw driver to remove the screw that holds the circuit board onto the back half of the mic body--it is a compound screw, or a screw within a screw, for lack of better description. In the machine shop world, I am sure there is a name for these little things, but I do not know what it is. | |
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| | #25 |
| Lives for gear |
On those copper tabs... one more thing... they squeeze inbetween the XLR shaft that connects to the circuit board and mic body/ clam-shell halves.If you pop apart the body, they could come flying out of there, and if you were not observant, you'd not realize where they fell out of or worse yet, never realize they had even been in the mic. Then you would be scratching your head and thinking you really screwed up when it all went back together (minus the copper tabs) and heard the horrible buzz from the incomplete ground.
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| | #26 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
That is an interesting thought: If there is space available in the MK-319 bodies for a more robust (typically bigger) transformer, then that would be another reason to own both MK-219 mics and MK-319 mics besides the midrange difference imparted by the different head basket designs. Hmmm... what an interesting thought. ![]() So again, please, please, please---if you drop another transformer in your 319, post the results. Let us know what you found that would fit into the space and how the sound changed. thumbsup | |
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| | #27 |
| Lives for gear |
Marik of Samar Audio makes a transformer that goes in the MK319. I am dying to try it out in a modded MK319. Peace Illumination |
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| | #28 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 990
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![]() IIRC you are the first person to mention these ..thanks See the first pic with the copper tab it has a kink at one end. In the other pic i have placed it in the small slot in between the case and the xlr shaft... is this where it goes ? Is there one or two per Mic ? ![]() Cheers P.F. Macky | |
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| | #29 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
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| | #30 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 990
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Excellent, thats good to know. The first stage mechanical mods really are a great improvement i think. |
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