10th November 2010
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#61 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,465
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Originally Posted by FocalPro  No, it's just on the side panel. | whoops!
that's not going to be very convenient for switching back and forth during a mix.
you should definitely do something about this; allow connection of a footswitch, or any kind of remote control that is possible... something, anything!
__________________
Regards,
Richie.
"a paradigm of restraint and good taste at a time of frequent excess"
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10th November 2010
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#62 | | Gear addict
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 463
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The question is if you have to switch the focus button on both monitors or if its somehow linked... The former variant could get annoying, Richie is right on that...
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10th November 2010
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#63 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,465
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even an optional simple IR remote control like for a telly!
seriously, having to get up, walk around the console, navigating racks and cables and whatnot, to flick a switch on both big monitors just to check some midrange honk on the "nearfields" would be a nightmare.
something, anything!
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10th November 2010
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#64 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: UK
Posts: 1,107
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Yes, maybe, but there's a price issue here. Once you start adding some means of remotely switching the function it's just going to increase the cost for something that the majority of users are happy to have on there but dont really NEED. Most serious users, the sort of people who are going to buy a costly three way already have devices in place to perform this function...whether that be a boombox, an auratone/avantone, computer speakers etc. We're going to be interested to hear what Focal have done with that function but it's not going to be a factor in our purchase in all probablility. So why pay extra for it in this economy?
J
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10th November 2010
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#65 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Ruston Yes, maybe, but there's a price issue here. Once you start adding some means of remotely switching the function it's just going to increase the cost for something that the majority of users are happy to have on there but dont really NEED. Most serious users, the sort of people who are going to buy a costly three way already have devices in place to perform this function...whether that be a boombox, an auratone/avantone, computer speakers etc. We're going to be interested to hear what Focal have done with that function but it's not going to be a factor in our purchase in all probablility. So why pay extra for it in this economy?
J | I think that the FOCUS mode makes problems in the mix more obvious than most boomboxes or avantones since you're using high-quality amplifier and drivers. The goal was not to make a cheap sounding speaker but rather a bandwidth limited, high-quality "midrange magnifying glass".
In any case, even if you were just to get the SM9 for its 3-way capabilities (which most people are obviously going to use 90% of the time) you're not paying extra for the FOCUS mode. Adding the extra crossover on an existing board is merely adding a relay and a few more components. It's essentially the same price to have it or not.
The vast bulk of the price of the monitor is the amplifier boards, cabinet, drivers and power supply / transformer. the entire input section (crossovers, EQs and relays) is a tiny section of the price of the monitor and removing a few components would not affect the price at all.
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10th November 2010
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#66 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: UK
Posts: 1,107
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Absolutely Simon...What I was saying (obviously not that clearly) was that it's one thing to impliment the feature as you have done, but another thing to start developing all sorts of remote switching for it. There's a balance between price and convenience which I think you have struck well in the way you've designed this. Sure we'd all love to be able to switch it without getting up and moving to the speakers, but there are associated costs to consider for you as a manufacturer and for us as end users.
Product threads on GS often end up with a cycle of people saying 'Well if it could just have done this, or that etc' but there's always a cost. And these the little extras add up. From my perspective as a Focal user, the recent success of the Twins (for example) has been that they provide a level of sonic quality above their price point. In contrast, you don't see many pairs of SM11's knocking around, and I believe the relative lack of uptake with that product was that it was overly complicated, and thus expensive. It provided a lot of clever extras over and above it's core function. This prevented it from punching above its weight for most users.
I think the balance is right here...You have primarily a great monitor, and the added functionality is simple and adds little in the way of cost.
J
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10th November 2010
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#67 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,465
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ah here, how much does a simple footswitch circuit cost?
peanuts!
you don't even have to include a footswitch, to save a few pennies... even though plenty of cheap gear like cheap guitar amps and keyboards do include them... along with the simple, cheap footswitching circuit to connect them to.
i'm only trying to help.
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11th November 2010
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#68 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Durham, NC USA
Posts: 8,891
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Do Solo/Sub6 owners get a free upgrade to sm9?  | |
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11th November 2010
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#69 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2003 Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,540
| Quote:
Originally Posted by dubrichie ah here, how much does a simple footswitch circuit cost?
peanuts!
you don't even have to include a footswitch, to save a few pennies... even though plenty of cheap gear like cheap guitar amps and keyboards do include them... along with the simple, cheap footswitching circuit to connect them to.
i'm only trying to help. | Seems like a good idea to me..............not that anyone's asking..........but I'm lazy and I'd rather not get up if I don't have to, some kind of remote control would be cool. Thanks for reading!  | |
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11th November 2010
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#70 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
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Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi Seems like a good idea to me..............not that anyone's asking..........but I'm lazy and I'd rather not get up if I don't have to, some kind of remote control would be cool. Thanks for reading! | I'll relay the message to the engineers in France!  | |
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11th November 2010
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#71 | | Gear Head
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 54
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Good idea Simon!
Remote control is a must.
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11th November 2010
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#72 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 12,491
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Originally Posted by FocalPro the frequency response is 30Hz - 40kHz at +\- 3dB
but the 40Hz - 40kHz is +\- 1dB !
Definitely the most accurate and precise monitor we ever built. |
(can't respond without getting in trouble) Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules yeah - I heard em.. They were v good! | Mmm. I stopped by Sunday and they had shut them off saying, "not well balanced, prototypes, not fit for demo"
Jules where can I rave about your party? That was a good time, amazing place. (ed: found it ...)
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12th November 2010
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#73 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2003 Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,540
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Originally Posted by FocalPro I'll relay the message to the engineers in France! |  | |
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12th November 2010
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#74 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
| Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey [/i]
(can't respond without getting in trouble)
Mmm. I stopped by Sunday and they had shut them off saying, "not well balanced, prototypes, not fit for demo"
Jules where can I rave about your party? That was a good time, amazing place. (ed: found it ...) | Hey Brian,
We literally had a problem on one of them starting late saturday, it had a problem with the input stage. These are one off prototypes so problems can unfortunately happen. They worked beautifully Thursday night, Friday and most of the day Saturday. sorry you could not hear them.
You have been one of our most hardest critic and I have no problem with that. In fact, I would be more than happy to drive a pair to your place with a pair of SM9 for you to test drive if you wanted to.
Looking forward to meeting you!
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12th November 2010
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#75 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 12,491
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Originally Posted by FocalPro Hey Brian,
We literally had a problem on one of them starting late saturday, it had a problem with the input stage. These are one off prototypes so problems can unfortunately happen. They worked beautifully Thursday night, Friday and most of the day Saturday. sorry you could not hear them.
You have been one of our most hardest critic and I have no problem with that. In fact, I would be more than happy to drive a pair to your place with a pair of SM9 for you to test drive if you wanted to.
Looking forward to meeting you! | hi Simon. Sure you're welcome to bring something over on a slow day. The Event owner Peter feels the same way you do, and wants to send a pair of his new things in 8 weeks or so (once he gets them broken in and matched beyond off the shelf status, Sweetwater is only 3 hours away, but oh well). Anyway, we could have a nice little party.
I'm glad you have used an analog eq, but still, is this needed? So many parts in the way. As to my previous criticisms, yes I initially found your SM series with AD DA and digital eq impossible to take. No center definition from all the distortion, and bright, and just wrong. You heard that and bailed on the ADDA loop. And so the Solo 6 was okay, still that tweeter and that cone but okay. The Twin 6 low end is a mess. Those tweeters may break in someday, but I've yet to year it.
If these have improved in linearity, cohesion, and distortion you're going the right direction! I do wish you all the best with it, I'm just picky.
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12th November 2010
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#76 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
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hi Simon. Sure you're welcome to bring something over on a slow day. The Event owner Peter feels the same way you do, and wants to send a pair of his new things in 8 weeks or so (once he gets them broken in and matched beyond off the shelf status, Sweetwater is only 3 hours away, but oh well). Anyway, we could have a nice little party.
| Yikes, did you just compare with with Peter from Event? I don't think I have ever stated that Focals were the best monitors in the world and then "challenged the world to prove me wrong"  Quote: |
I'm glad you have used an analog eq, but still, is this needed? So many parts in the way.
| That's why there's a bypass button Brian. If not needed, remove the hardware for a cleaner signal path. makes everybody happy. Quote: |
The Twin 6 low end is a mess. Those tweeters may break in someday, but I've yet to year it.
| Hey, you went from loving Barefoot to selling Sonics Anima so who knows, we might be doing a video in 6 months from now saying how the SM9 changed your life  Quote: |
If these have improved in linearity, cohesion, and distortion you're going the right direction! I do wish you all the best with it, I'm just picky.
| We like picky people. Too bad I didn't FINALLY get to meet you at AES. where was I when you came to the booth? I only left it for about an hour on Sunday!
Cheers!
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13th November 2010
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#77 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 12,491
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Originally Posted by FocalPro Hey, you went from loving Barefoot to selling Sonics Anima so who knows, we might be doing a video in 6 months from now saying how the SM9 changed your life | Not likely, you've never made a speaker that lived up to the hype IMO. And I still love Barefoots as a Mini Main, but as a nearfield, low level, mixing-only speaker the Anima SE is superior in terms of linearity, dynamics, resolution, distortion, musicality, etc. Newer technology and superior design to me ... and in the opinion of some of the mixers who have used them both for mixing. As an all around speaker the MM27s are still great, always will be.
Since your speaker (like the new ATC) is simply trying to keep up with the market created by the innovative MM27s that I correctly predicted were a game changer, I don't expect to be wowed by this new design for mixing. For power it may be good, but that tweeter is still not to my liking, and passive radiators are not for me. I do expect it to better the Event, that's for sure.
The idea of turning off the sub is a good one, and you should go with the Gearslutz footswitch idea fo sho!
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14th November 2010
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#78 | | Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004 Location: New Zealand/Switzerland/guitar case
Posts: 8,942
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Originally Posted by garryrobson If you're referring to the passive radiator, Focal have used that before, long before Barefoot (unless I am mistaken). | AFAIK (I don't own them) The Barefoots do not use passive radiators. People seem to be getting confused, these Focals have one passive radiator on the side and a front mounted bass driver, the Barefoots have two opposing active subs, one per side, an entirely different thing.
Whilst the quality may be comparable (or not, I don't know) the way they get there is entirely different.
Matt
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14th November 2010
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#79 | | 3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 260
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Originally Posted by matt thomas AFAIK (I don't own them) The Barefoots do not use passive radiators. People seem to be getting confused, these Focals have one passive radiator on the side and a front mounted bass driver, the Barefoots have two opposing active subs, one per side, an entirely different thing | You are correct, Barefoot uses 2 opposing in phase drivers (driver = powered).
The passive radiator is on the top of the Focal (according to the picture in the first post of this thread).
Another point, a lot of folks seem unaware that a passive radiator is basically just a more expensive way to do a ported enclosure -- there are some slight benefits, but it's a tradeoff even disregarding cost, there are inherent drawbacks as well. Those interested should see the excellent treatment of this subject by Dick Small (Thiele-Small) AES journal circa 1973
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14th November 2010
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#80 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
| Quote:
The passive radiator is on the top of the Focal (according to the picture in the first post of this thread).
Another point, a lot of folks seem unaware that a passive radiator is basically just a more expensive way to do a ported enclosure -- there are some slight benefits, but it's a tradeoff even disregarding cost, there are inherent drawbacks as well.
| The driver on top of the SM9 is indeed a passive radiator. And you are also correct by stating that the overall concept is similar to bass-reflex designs. However, the advantages are more than slight. Absolutely no port noises and a much smaller cabinet. Remember that a port tuned that low would require a very lengthy port inside the cabinet, reducing drastically the available volume. A bass-reflex SM9 would be 15-20% larger.
As for which design (bass-reflex, passive radiator, sealed or even transmission lines) is the best, I think they all have their advantages and drawbacks. Out there there are great designs of all of these and bad ones as well.
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14th November 2010
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#81 | | Gear interested
Joined: Aug 2007 Location: NYC
Posts: 3
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It was great hearing these speakers at AES. Their versatility was impressive, as well as their range.
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20th December 2010
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#82 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Franklin TN
Posts: 2,409
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Anyone else have an opportunity to hear these monitors yet?  | |
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4th January 2011
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#83 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Cowboy California
Posts: 556
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Update Simon. Is there a definite North American release date yet? Any issues? Remote in works?
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4th January 2011
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#84 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
| Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain Update Simon. Is there a definite North American release date yet? Any issues? Remote in works? | At AES we announced that the SM9 would be available by the end of April 2011. It might May or June but it's not 100% sure. The thing is, with a product like the SM9, we need to be absolutely 1000% that we have enough EXACT same parts (caps, resistors, etc) of everything to ensure that they are all identical. That always takes a bit more time. we're also fine-tuning the protection system.
Still, we'll be doing some demontrations in many studios in the next few months with the prototypes (99% finished products) so stay tuned!
As for the remote, there won't be one. it would require delaying the product another 6-9 months, it would add to the cost significantly as well and we think that "FOCUS" is a bonus feature that needs to be used at the end of a mix to check the final translatability. It's still faster to push the switch than going in the car or checking on your home system | |
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6th January 2011
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#85 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Cowboy California
Posts: 556
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The design seems very efficient and if it translates in superb sound then Focal might have a winner. Please give us any updates in the coming weeks. I look forward to hearing them and hope the bass is as tight and defined as stated. Lord knows the twins need some help in this area for the music I do. Thanks Simon.
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28th March 2011
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#86 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,345
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anyone else actually heard these yet? | |
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2nd April 2011
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#87 | | Gear interested
Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania, Europe
Posts: 3
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Sick indeed!!! Can't wait to hear these beauties!!!
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9th April 2011
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#88 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 633
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I heard these yesterday and I am impressed. They sound really good.
Transients, soundstage, frequency response, etc.
I wasn't really a fan of the CMS line, but this SM9 monitor kicks a$$!
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23rd May 2011
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#89 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2007 Location: PA
Posts: 988
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Anyone else yet hear these monitors? I like my Twins, but they lack the depth I am looking for that some 2 way monitors like the PMC TB2A's provide.
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25th May 2011
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#90 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Germany
Posts: 274
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Quiet excited to hear those.
But why´s there no wooden finish anymore? The clients love it.  | |
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