Does this exist?

[hollywood_steve]

After tracking to my hard drive, I want to remain digital and avoid any back-and-forth trips to the converters. (I hope to use any analog signal processors on the way to "tape")

But things never work out the way we want them to, so I wondering about some sort of digital processing for signals that are already recorded. Is there anything like a hardware box with 8ch of digital EQ and/or compression? who makes stuff like this? and are they any good?

(this is a location recording rig built around a Genex GX9000. There is no computer available, so "plugins" are not a solution. I'm looking for a real hardware solution.)


thanks

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

[littledog]

I don't own one, but sounds like you need one of those Kurzweil thingies. (Can't remember the model # - someone help out?)

I've never heard anything but high praise from those who've used them. But they aren't cheap...

[littledog]

OK, I felt guilty about giving such half-assed advice, so I looked up a link for you:

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/ksp8.html

It's called the KSP8 and it definitely is 8 channels, so sounds like exactly what you need. However, it looks like eight channels of digital I/O is actually an option and not included in the standard box. So it will be a little more money.

[3rdpath]

i recently had a kurz rep drop off a ksp8 for me to demo and it is indeed impressive. there were about a gazillion fx presets that sounded very nice and enough processing power to chain multiple fx on every channel. and a bazillion parameters for adjusting these fx...

having said that, i didn't try out the EQ's or compressors( i'm assuming it actually has them...) since i don't need 'em. i'd check it out. and i'd look at the optional remote...quite nice. if memory serves, you're probably looking at close to 4k for the unit, i/o and remote.

if you're just needing generic eq and compression maybe one of the small digital yamaha boards would work. i think the 01v has 40 channels of eq's and compressors of which 16 are avail digitally. they're precise and transparent...if you're looking for cool coloration-they ain't it. i've seen mint used models of these boards for $1,200.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by 3rdpath
i recently had a kurz rep drop off a ksp8 for me to demo and it is indeed impressive. there were about a gazillion fx presets that sounded very nice and enough processing power to chain multiple fx on every channel. and a bazillion parameters for adjusting these fx...

having said that, i didn't try out the EQ's or compressors( i'm assuming it actually has them...) since i don't need 'em. i'd check it out. and i'd look at the optional remote...quite nice. if memory serves, you're probably looking at close to 4k for the unit, i/o and remote.

if you're just needing generic eq and compression maybe one of the small digital yamaha boards would work. i think the 01v has 40 channels of eq's and compressors of which 16 are avail digitally. they're precise and transparent...if you're looking for cool coloration-they ain't it. i've seen mint used models of these boards for $1,200.

The KSP8 EQ is excellent, especially the top end. Compressors are not great as preset, but if you fiddle with them, they can be very good.

BT

[Magnus]

Check out the TC Electronics System 6000. It's a great piece of gear.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/System6000

Regards,
Magnus

[clipgod]

If this helps :

I got my KSP8 hooked up via the AES/EBU card to an old 888 ( still 24bit on the AES bus ) and so I can use the KSP as an insert in Protools.
I am using the comps and eqs all the time and they sound very good. Check the 3band mastering compressor !!!!

[e-cue]

Originally posted by hollywood_steve
Is there anything like a hardware box with 8ch of digital EQ and/or compression? who makes stuff like this? and are they any good?

(this is a location recording rig built around a Genex GX9000. There is no computer available, so "plugins" are not a solution. I'm looking for a real hardware solution.)


thanks

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

8 channels of DSD eq/compression? Good luck...

The Digital EQ in the M5000 is much slept on. As is the compressor. Since you can't chain within that unit, you'd need 4 of them which makes the TC6000 sound like a better choice to me, but I have very limited time on the 6000. (or maybe the KSP which I've never used- buy one from Fletch and take it back if it ain't up to pair)

[Plush]

You require a SADiE, but you already know that. Other than that, you require a Sony Sonoma or a Pyramix. Set aside $25,000 and you're in bidness. DSD is being abandoned wholesale in pro recording. DSD is going down.

[hollywood_steve]

8 channels of DSD eq/compression? Good luck...
*******************************************

I should have been more clear; 8ch of PCM digital EQ/comp. (many folks forget that the Genex GX9000 also includes 8ch of 24b/192kHz pcm recording, through the very highly rated Genex converters. But I am still looking for a local SADIE owner to partner with when a project requires DSD post-production.)

Although I am sold on DSD as a tracking and archiving medium, I realize that 95% of my final product will be delivered in PCM format (at least for the time being....) And the only time that I would be using any processing would be when preparing final product for a client. All tracking will be through analog outboard and then hitting the analog - DSD converters just prior to the hard drive. When I need to perform any post production EQ or comp processing, I will use the Genex converters to go from DSD - 192kHz PCM and process at that format (if the hardware is capable.) The last step would be a format conversion to whatever sample rate and bit depth the final product requires.

It looks like my first real test of the Genex system will be later this month; I'm going to be recording an acoustic folk/country duo live to 4ch of DSD. Its just a simple demo project but it will allow me to try out the Genex under real conditions. (so far, I've only used the Genex to record myself and friends while I learn how to drive the damn thing.) I'll post any interesting findings to the forum.

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

[Plush]

Actually I think it's not too early at all to say that there is piss poor demand for anything DSD. There are decent tools to process it, but no one is willing to pay extra for it (so you or I can buy it).
The air is going out of it at a fast pace despite the push from recording rags and Sony itself.

In order for DSD to be widely adopted, record companies and producers must pay extra for it. Since that is not happening, I thusly predict, with authority, that DSD is going down.

Best from Chicago,
Plush

[hollywood_steve]

Actually I think it's not too early at all to say that there is piss poor demand for anything DSD
******************

Don't tell Genex; their entire staff is working 100 hour weeks trying to keep up with the demand for the new GX9000 and GX9048 machines. As these are the first two DSD capable multi-track recorders ever offered for sale, I'd say demand is quite strong, certainly outpacing supply. (just try and get a GX9000 delivered any time soon) But I guess you know something the rest of us don't.....

But none of this really matters because some of us view DSD as a fantastic tracking & archive format. Even if the SACD was officially killed off tomorrow, I've already decided on DSD as my "in-house" format of choice. I'll do all of my tracking and archiving in DSD and only convert (to PCM or analog) when its time to provide a client with final product.

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

[Plush]

DSD multi-track recorders have ben available for a good 4 years.
The Genex 8500 could do it and, in fact, any Tascasm or ADAT could do it with the proper outboard converter and cables. Did you know that you can record DSD on any 8 track capable 16 bit machine?

Genex is a good machine if the particular unit one bought works.
Genex responded to the interminable problems of the 8500 with undeliverable promises of fixes for those problems---and then with the 9000 series. Pooof----no more fixes for the 8500. Look, I'm not bashing Genex, they're good people who were undercapitalized in their business and now are trying to get back on track.

The sales and demand for the new series says nothing about the demand for DSD. For as you pointed out earlier, the machines are also PCM multi-tracks. Unless you're in the classical two track recording business, I fail to see how you can standardize on DSD. As an early tester of the benefits of DSD vs. PCM, I find that 24/192 is basically equivelent to DSD and with a higher amount of information recorded by the 192.

Until a premium is paid to engineers to use DSD (because of the cost of re-equipping to record, edit and process the non standard data stream,) I fear that the format is at a stand still.

[Simon Burges]

You're all posting interesting personal theories about DSD. You can't realistically record DSD on any 8-track 16-bit recorder, not if it's tape-based anyway as the PCM-based error correction on the tape machine can make a right mess of the DSD.

But at any rate, DSD is not going down at all. A series of high-profile SACD releases provides some proof of that and SACD inventory amongst standard CDs at the same price is starting to happen. Producers large and small are getting really excited about DSD.

Anyway, enough of this. Unqualified statements of any kind don't help anyone's understanding of a situation, so please stop doing it.

Simon Burges
Genex

[Plush]

Dear Sir,

I reject your call to stop commenting with so called "unqualified
statements." My comments are not unqualified at all but instead are born of direct and extensive experience since 1998 with DSD.

I will agree to make no more mention about your company, Genex, as I am not a user and I want you and your staff to continue to make good equipment unemcumbered by side commentary.

We are in the classical business here and I'm afraid that no amount of cheerleading or producer optimism can interest me in DSD any longer. Not only because of the flawed technical problems with noise shaping the DSD prior to output and the gobs of high freq. noise, but more to the point, because we are unwilling to totally re-quip our studios. New recorders, new converters, new in wall digital wiring, new editing systems, new processing equipment and new ways of working stymie the adoption. Perhaps your perspective is skewed because many of your customers might master to a DSD capable machine for SACD release. This is much different than originating on the format and seeing it thru to final release.

Several months back some were speaking of Universal adopting
hybrid SACD as the new release medium. In my very recent talks with them they've now soured on this strategy. Audiophile releases and re-mastering pcm and dusty analog tapes will not a success make. The cynical alternative that record companies have suggested is to take your pcm production and just master it to DSD for release.

As for your comments re recording DSD on a tape based 16 bit 8
track, you certainly can do it. We do it with dcs converters. Go ahead and try it--it's real DSD. The problem arises when one stops the tape and a large spike of white noise appears. (later one could edit this out)---it's just an experiment obviously.

Time and time again under my direct supervision and control, we have recorded double system both pcm (24/192) and dsd. In switching between the mic feed and the two flavors of d/a converters, we find the 24/192 to be the equal of dsd without the penalties to be faced in later processing.

By all means continue your dialogue, but we wish to disabuse you of the notion that objections from equipment manufacturers will stay our skepticism or silence our real world experience.

[jazzius]

Look into pyramix ..........you can swap files between it and your genex as they use the same file format........

........as i understand it, all processing of DSD (eq, compression etc) involves downsampling to PCM of one form or the other.......Pyramix downsamples to 384k for this purpose........some will complain about this but i doubt anyone will run out of the room screaming "oh my god, they down-sampled to PCM!!!" when listening to your recordings.......

.........bear in mind i may be speaking out of my brown-eye!