Toft Console as your Summing Box

[Kenny Gioia]

I was just wondering, as a lot of us are using Summing boxes to mix:

If you could trade in your summing box for the Toft 16 Channel Console that is coming soon and the summing buss sounded identical to what you have now in your summing box:

Would you?

Would the time spent recalling 16 EQs, Faders, Pans, Aux sends, FX Returns etc. deter you from purchasing a console?

Do you have room for the console in your current setup?

I'm just curious if losing that instant recall that we have now would be too much to overcome, even if it comes with 16 high quality EQs.

Thanks.

BTW - If you wanted to keep using your summing box, you could by patching the direct outs on all 16 channels into your box. It's like having 16 outboard EQs in a flat lunchbox. ($150 each)

[not_so_new]

Hmmmmm

[Lek]

Man, I've been thinking about this exact situation
I can't stand most digital eq, and I HATE mixing on a computer. I have thought about this toft and the fact that I could have 16 analog eq's all lined up (and insert analog compressors). I do however, like fader automation, changing 'scenes' with the push of a button that have different pan and effects settings.

But you know what, for me it's getting the best tone...as I've upgraded equipment it's easier and easier to get good tones without having to fight. I think I'd settle without automation, and I could foresee myself at least trying out an apogee da16x with that toft at some point just to see...

[Crushed]

I think it's a fabulous idea. I'd easily give up computer automation if it sounds tits.

Allen

[Kenny Gioia]

I never said that you can't use your automation in the DAW.

You could still setup all your faders in your DAW at 0VU and automate from there.

I'm more talking about having to recall 96 EQ knobs, 16 Faders, 16 Pans, and 96 aux sends (if you use them)

[rainsinvelvet]

I'm totally down with that idea. I'm hoping to do that exact thing if the console lives up to the talk.

ERic

[subspace]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I never said that you can't use your automation in the DAW.

You could still setup all your faders in your DAW at 0VU and automate from there.

I'm more talking about having to recall 96 EQ knobs, 16 Faders, 16 Pans, and 96 aux sends (if you use them)

You only have to recall it if you fuk it up the first time though, right?
Which I do on a regular basis, so the projet folders are stuffed with my dirty little JPGs...
Little tip... write the channel number real small about every 4" along that module. When you zoom in on that lo mid frequency knob from channel 13, you'd be surprised how closely it resembles the one on channel 14...

[Unknown soldier]

For the money and what you get, what makes anyone think that this would be better than a soundcraft ghost? Looks like the money will be the same, even cheaper. Is it the hope that this board will be a leap ahead in quality because of the designer? the EQ?

Just wondering. I hope it's great , but fail to see what all the fuss is about. Another 8 bus console is what it looks like.

[Kenny Gioia]

My hopes are based on the EQ.

I've used Trident Series 80 and 70 EQ, and I would pay double the price of this board for sixteen channels of it.

I haven't used every mid priced console ever built but all the ones I've used have had horribly bad EQs.

[Lek]

Originally Posted by Produceher

My hopes are based on the EQ.

I've used Trident Series 80 and 70 EQ, and I would pay double the price of this board for sixteen channels of it.

I haven't used every mid priced console ever built but all the ones I've used have had horribly bad EQs.

Assuming the eq is nice but the mixer/summing/etc is not as great as a good console or summing unit, imagine if he sliced off the 16 channels of eq and made that into a separate or rackmount unit. I'd be interested in a product like this - run tracks through that on the way to a top notch summing unit (or use a summing unit's inserts if available). Then again, if it's good enough sounding, I'd rather use the entire mixer with all of its features, aux sends, etc etc.

[Unknown soldier]

Originally Posted by Lek

Assuming the eq is nice but the mixer/summing/etc is not as great as a good console or summing unit, imagine if he sliced off the 16 channels of eq and made that into a separate or rackmount unit. I'd be interested in a product like this - run tracks through that on the way to a top notch summing unit (or use a summing unit's inserts if available). Then again, if it's good enough sounding, I'd rather use the entire mixer with all of its features, aux sends, etc etc.

So looks like the EQ is the big deal on this board. I'm sure it will be at least good, maybe very good. But the rest of it will be your standard IC's and cheap op amps. Maybe the design will be good and they can get the best possible quality for the money they spend to make the board, but does anyone expect to take their studios to the next level with this piece? How much better can it be than a ghost? I've been through plenty of 8 bus boards, and while they can add something, I've found that ITB has higher fidelity than any cheap console. The crud they add isn't worth it for me...anyone else feel this way?

[Falken]

Originally Posted by Unknown soldier

The crud they add isn't worth it for me...anyone else feel this way?

I think the crud they add IS worth it but I'd rather not have the crud either.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Lek

Assuming the eq is nice but the mixer/summing/etc is not as great as a good console or summing unit, imagine if he sliced off the 16 channels of eq and made that into a separate or rackmount unit. I'd be interested in a product like this - run tracks through that on the way to a top notch summing unit (or use a summing unit's inserts if available). Then again, if it's good enough sounding, I'd rather use the entire mixer with all of its features, aux sends, etc etc.

This product can provide both functions. They've mentioned in the "New Products" thread that they have no plans on making different versions for summing etc.

If you don't like the summing or any of the other stuff on this console, just patch 16 outputs of your DAW into the line inputs, and come out of the direct outputs back into your summing box.

At this price, you're basically paying $150 per channel.

Search reviews of the Toft ATC-2 for thoughts of the EQ. It's supposed to be the same.

Here are Fletcher's Thoughts.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Unknown soldier

So looks like the EQ is the big deal on this board. I'm sure it will be at least good, maybe very good. But the rest of it will be your standard IC's and cheap op amps. Maybe the design will be good and they can get the best possible quality for the money they spend to make the board, but does anyone expect to take their studios to the next level with this piece? How much better can it be than a ghost? I've been through plenty of 8 bus boards, and while they can add something, I've found that ITB has higher fidelity than any cheap console. The crud they add isn't worth it for me...anyone else feel this way?

At this point it's just a guess.

It may fit in with the rest (although the EQ's alone could change things) or it may shock the Audio World.

We shall see.

[Ernest Buckley]

Good thread. I was considering using the TOFT alongside a Mackie Control Universal. That way I`ve got faders for volume automation and I`ll use the TOFT for the EQ.

[MacMike]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I was just wondering, as a lot of us are using Summing boxes to mix:

If you could trade in your summing box for the Toft 16 Channel Console that is coming soon and the summing buss sounded identical to what you have now in your summing box:

Would you?

Would the time spent recalling 16 EQs, Faders, Pans, Aux sends, FX Returns etc. deter you from purchasing a console?

Do you have room for the console in your current setup?

I'm just curious if losing that instant recall that we have now would be too much to overcome, even if it comes with 16 high quality EQs.

Thanks.

BTW - If you wanted to keep using your summing box, you could by patching the direct outs on all 16 channels into your box. It's like having 16 outboard EQs in a flat lunchbox. ($150 each)

Yupp!

I would definitely use the Toftconsole IF it sounds as nice as any summingbox and IF the Eq will be as good (or close to) as ATC-2. I've been using the ATC-2 a lot and I must say I like it VERY MUCH. For now we just can dream about it but what if the dream come true somehow, then we will have 16/24/32 channels with great Eq combinated with a hopefully decent summing...not bad...at all ;-)

I'm looking for a new console to my studio and I would lie if I didnt say I have consider the Toft...but if Toft will be better than an Audient or Neotek console...well...I dont know, its in the future to tell. But then I might have bought a desk already...we'll see.

/Mike

[thesteve]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the issue with fader automation in the box then having analogue comp in the insert on the toft is that it will change the way the comp engages because you will alter the level before it hits the compressor.

[Hershal Pearlma]

I love this idea too Kenny......in theory of course!

The Toft ATB mixer will have great sounding EQ's on all 16 channels, eliminating the need for a rack of API or Neve modules, unless of course you are rich and already have these...then you don't really need to bother with this thread! Go get an SSL or something!

For the rest of us...provided the line inputs of the mixer are relatively transparent and the summing amplifiers are nice, open, and non-destructive to the RAW DAW tracks pumping into the line inputs of this puppy, a shitload of us will be very happy with this mixer as a way of combining all of our audio and outboard.

Here is my plan for the Toft ATB-24:

1. Samplitude with Apogee D/A spits 16 tracks into 16 channels of the Toft ATB-24

2. Insert my distressors and my SansAmps on channels of my choice

3. Strap my Neve Portico 5012 (with silk) and the Neve Portico 5043 comp/limiter across the stereo master bus insert while mixing to give the mix a Neve color and thick Neve compression to glue everything together.

4. Run my 2290, Eventide, PCM80, PCM 70 off the 6 aux sends and return them on the last 8 line input channels to have the EQ's to use on the effects returns for a lot of flexability.

This kind of setup will provide a much smoother workflow that requires very little patching and re-patching. It's a far cry from working with any of those summing rack units but hopefully the sonics will equal or surpass the summing boxes with yukky ITB plug-in mixing. Our friend Bang mixed a ton of stuff on a midas Venice which from the audio samples I heard, completely killed the Mixdream summing box in a comparison. Hopefully the Tofts' line ins and summing will be as good as the Midas Venice. Then we will be a very fortunate group here.

I am hoping that this will give me the amazing results that will impress me enough to call the gear collection madness quits for quite some time.

I hope this works out for me and you as well Kenny.

[TonyBelmont]

Here's an idea... Instead of torturing ourselves with what if scenarios, let's wait until the thing comes out and see how it sounds. We all know what happened last time we got this excited, right?.....

[Hershal Pearlma]

What happened? and what were we excited about then?

Was it the DS (TWO) U thingy? What ever happened to those dicks?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

Was it the DS (TWO) U thingy? What ever happened to those dicks?

I was just thinking about that the other day...

[Hershal Pearlma]

I haven't been redefined yet.

You?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Hershal Pearlma

I haven't been redefined yet.

You?

[streetbeats]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

e, that chap was funny man, redefining

[daryllh]

Originally Posted by subspace

You only have to recall it if you fuk it up the first time though, right?
Which I do on a regular basis, so the projet folders are stuffed with my dirty little JPGs...
Little tip... write the channel number real small about every 4" along that module. When you zoom in on that lo mid frequency knob from channel 13, you'd be surprised how closely it resembles the one on channel 14...

Holy crap that is some wide open mixing you got goin on there!!!!!!!