All of you who rag on and on about MP3's...

[joelpatterson]

I've got news for you.

First, my lack of credentials. I don't have an Ipod, I don't have any trove of MP3's at my beck and command. The listening I do to MP3's is unwitting. I do have a few CD players, from the proud to the mundane, and I utilize them mostly to see how when you degrade the mixes I end up with, through a boombox, through a Walkman, how it affects them. You can say without much excess that modest playback systems will ruin the music to some extent, blur details, mush it all together.

So, in one of my first forays into making an MP3 out of something, I converted a song from a band I did last year into an MP3. I just got OSx on my Mac, it's got a big empty iTunes application, I imported it into the player, like a pro!

You know what? The "MP3"ishness of the track in no way, no even slight way detracts from the strengths of it as a whole--the overall balance is maintained, the dynamism of bass-y pull to cymbal-y blast, the glory of the shouting vocal. It's all there. It's no different than the transistor radios of old. It's the same song, same performance, same frenzy.

MP3's are ****ing fine, get over it!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I've got news for you.

First, my lack of credentials. I don't have an Ipod, I don't have any trove of MP3's at my beck and command. The listening I do to MP3's is unwitting. I do have a few CD players, from the proud to the mundane, and I utilize them mostly to see how when you degrade the mixes I end up with, through a boombox, through a Walkman, how it affects them. You can say without much excess that modest playback systems will ruin the music to some extent, blur details, mush it all together.

So, in one of my first forays into making an MP3 out of something, I converted a song from a band I did last year into an MP3. I just got OSx on my Mac, it's got a big empty iTunes application, I imported it into the player, like a pro!

You know what? The "MP3"ishness of the track in no way, no even slight way detracts from the strengths of it as a whole--the overall balance is maintained, the dynamism of bass-y pull to cymbal-y blast, the glory of the shouting vocal. It's all there. It's no different than the transistor radios of old. It's the same song, same performance, same frenzy.

MP3's are ****ing fine, get over it!

Better get your flame suit on..



In many ways I agree with you. I do think MP3's degrade the sound for sure but if the music is good then the music is still good on an MP3. I don't know about everyone else but I can tell the difference between a high quality mix and a bad bedroom recording on an MP3. The recording quality still matters and the MP3 can convey that.

Also your analogy to the transistor radio of old hits the nail on the head and to quite a few people the transistor radio repersents the golden age of the industry.

All of that said, I would still prefer to listen to music on a great sound system than a transistor radio and I would still rather hear music off a turntable or at the least a CD before an MP3.

[squeegybug]

Was someone trying to take your mp3's away from you?

Steve

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I've got news for you.

First, my lack of credentials. I don't have an Ipod, I don't have any trove of MP3's at my beck and command. The listening I do to MP3's is unwitting. I do have a few CD players, from the proud to the mundane, and I utilize them mostly to see how when you degrade the mixes I end up with, through a boombox, through a Walkman, how it affects them. You can say without much excess that modest playback systems will ruin the music to some extent, blur details, mush it all together.

So, in one of my first forays into making an MP3 out of something, I converted a song from a band I did last year into an MP3. I just got OSx on my Mac, it's got a big empty iTunes application, I imported it into the player, like a pro!

You know what? The "MP3"ishness of the track in no way, no even slight way detracts from the strengths of it as a whole--the overall balance is maintained, the dynamism of bass-y pull to cymbal-y blast, the glory of the shouting vocal. It's all there. It's no different than the transistor radios of old. It's the same song, same performance, same frenzy.

MP3's are ****ing fine, get over it!

Some time ago, Lindell posted an mp3 and it´s the first time I ever said.. man, mp3´s can sound good.

I agree with you.. the mp3 thing is a bit of a exageration. It´s not as bad as many people put it and it will definetly not make a difference on what people perceive of the song, if it´s got energy and it rocks it will rock on any medium.

On a side note, mp3´s still suck from an engineering perspective. The harshness in the highs is not cool.. if you switch off the fan mode, they suck ass. But like you said it´s not that big of a deal after all when you put song first.

[h4nc0]

256-320kbps mp3s sound pretty good, no?

[djui5]

Don't blame mp3's for crappy sounding tracks.

Low quality (160k or lower) mp3's do sound pretty weird on the top end, but even still if the track is good it will still sound like a good track with weird high end.

If your tracks are unlistenable on mp3's, you need to seek fixes somewhere else.

[Charles Dye]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

MP3's are ****ing fine, get over it!

That, and the fact they're sonically irrelevant since mp4s came out.

[5down1up]

i like & love MP3s for many reason ... and i hate em just for one :

THEY DONT SOUND GOOD

but if your just listening to mp3s, like a lot of people do nowadays, youll not hear a difference . ABing with the original source is another story .

still, the flexibility of those lil files are GREAT .

[jdunn]

[edit]If you set your I Tunes Advanced/Importing/Import Using settings to "AAC Encoder" instead of MP3 Encoder, that's an improvement. Then you'll have your tracks in the m4a format, which is better than mp3. Check out the Custom settings too. There's the option of using VBR (Variable Bit Rate) encoding, and you can set the bitrate. 256 VBR AAC is pretty good sounding for a lossy format.

Then if you right click Get Info on the track in your I Tunes, you can add a photo, track info, etc...

[Charles Dye]

And then if you stand on your left leg + jump up + down, while cntrl-shift-opt-cmd-clicking with your right hand on...

[jdunn]

That last one got garbled up anyway. Just trying to show the guy how not to use mp3.

[5down1up]

then what will happen ... @ charles ?

[djui5]

Originally Posted by 5down1up

then what will happen ... @ charles ?

You're mix will launch to the top of the billboard charts.

[Mike Lapchick]

it just kills me to be spending the time and money I do - we all do - tweaking the most minor details – in our signal paths, our effects, resolution, etc - to have it dumbed down to a 128k mp3 and have some zit faced kid say he can't hear the difference. I can, the seasoned folks here can, but if the listening audience can't - then what are we fighting for. So frustrating. I feel like a f'n activist.

m

[5down1up]

Originally Posted by djui5

You're mix will launch to the top of the billboard charts.

why didnt you mention that earlier @ DJ ?

[6strings]

It's just the LP vs. cassette tape all over again. Quality vs. portability.

But you can get excellent quality cassettes/mp3s if you make your own copies rather than buying retail. (retail cassettes sucked major ass, much like streamed or low to average bit rate mp3s)

That said.... I mostly buy on iTunes now for the portability/ease of use. I spend so much time in my studio, my "pleasure" listening is usually done in the car anyway. Home listening usually is reserved for music video/concert DVDs up in the home theater...

JP

[Zeppelin4Life]

I am a purist, and I love analog sound. But I have to admit, I hear no difference between anything over 196kbs mp3 or wav

[bunnerabb]

128k .mp3 are crunchy and ... um.. there's no air there.

However, after they get blown through a crusher at hard-knee, "fvck you : 1" ratio, there's no air ANYWAY.

[Marky]

Yeah, AAC does a great job I feel. I've never been into MP3s though I do have enough of them. But I don't mind owning AACs over CDs ....

[AlexLakis]

I usually test my mixes in MP3 format before I let them go, both in 256-320 VBR, and 128 (which I also include in a seperate "mp3 mixdown CD." Sometimes, I actually like what it does to the sound (this is only on hard rock/metal/hardcore stuff, mind you). Compresses it a little bit, makes it more raw, brash, and rocky.

I used to think there wasn't as big a difference between .wav and high-bitrate mp3s, and between 192/256/320, etc...but the more and more I listened, and the more critically I worked with mixes and converted them...the more I noticed. There definately is a big difference. This is most easily recognized in the high end, although all bands "suffer," in my opinion.

As was said before, it's pretty hard to make a great mp3, and very easy to make a crappy one. A great mix with quality encoding will definately help. Also, the lack of any acoustic instruments will help too, which I think are destroyed by mp3s for the mostpart.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by jdunn

[edit]If you set your I Tunes Advanced/Importing/Import Using settings to "AAC Encoder" instead of MP3 Encoder, that's an improvement. Then you'll have your tracks in the m4a format, which is better than mp3. Check out the Custom settings too. There's the option of using VBR (Variable Bit Rate) encoding, and you can set the bitrate. 256 VBR AAC is pretty good sounding for a lossy format.

Then if you right click Get Info on the track in your I Tunes, you can add a photo, track info, etc...

i got my girls a ipod for Christmas.
i took a listen and thought it had to be the wort thing i had ever heard worse then a bad radio station.
better head phones did not help much.
i thought it might be the unit so i tried the other one, no better.
i will try the AAC Encoder.
i can see this has a convenience but nothing more without some improvement.
i will admit i like the size and the ability to load albums and make changes, but the sound so far is not that great to me.

[Charles Dye]

Originally Posted by jdunn

That last one got garbled up anyway. Just trying to show the guy how not to use mp3.

I was just bustin' your ballz, Jason. But I was totally kiddin'. I just kinda forgot the smilies.

I puttem' in now.

Best,
Charles

[Charles Dye]

Originally Posted by djui5

You're mix will launch to the top of the billboard charts.

DUDE!!! You let the secret out!!!

Shit, now what are we all gonna do?!?!?!

Crap.



Well, @ least you didn't show'em the secret handshake.

[absrec]

I couldn't agree more with the people that say that that's just where we're headed. I mix to 24bit .wav, bounce a 16bit version, stick it in iTunes, burn a CD, and send my client home with it. The call me and say "sounds great, bring that little part up in the second verse...", etc...

Who cares if vinyl LPs sound better? You know what? NOONE LISTENS TO THEM ANYMORE!!!

I don't know that I've ever heard the difference. Then again, just the other day, a friend of mine turned a guitar cable around the other way and I did hear a difference. A slight one, but I still heard one. So go be audiophiles if you want, I'm going to stick to making music.

Respectfully,

Aaron

[joelpatterson]

Lessee... stand on my head... jump up and down, hit control+alt+delete...

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by absrec

CUT-->Who cares if vinyl LPs sound better? You know what? NOONE LISTENS TO THEM ANYMORE!!!<--CUT

I listen to them!

Originally Posted by absrec

CUT-->I don't know that I've ever heard the difference. Then again, just the other day, a friend of mine turned a guitar cable around the other way and I did hear a difference. A slight one, but I still heard one. So go be audiophiles if you want, I'm going to stick to making music.

Respectfully,

Aaron<--CUT

I also listen to mp3's and CD's and I'm also going to be an audiophile... an audiophile that makes music!

Respect!

/Cojo

[absrec]

Originally Posted by Cojo

I listen to them!

I also listen to mp3's and CD's and I'm also going to be an audiophile... an audiophile that makes music!

Respect!

/Cojo

Respect back atcha!

[s-boogie]

Originally Posted by absrec

Who cares if vinyl LPs sound better? You know what? NOONE LISTENS TO THEM ANYMORE!!!



Aaron

yes....!

....NO!

i will always listen to my lp collection on my fine-asssss turntable that´s for sure!
and i´m not a dinosaur.
i will always listen to my cd collection on my 40gig Ipod in fine AAC 320kb quality,
so i guess i´m kind of future proof (at the moment).

but too be on topic i´d like to say that mp3 sounds real good
but the different form of compression still can be heard
compared to uncompressed waves!
...or do my ears fool me?

nevertheless:

I´ve got news for you...

we got over it!

[djui5]

[QUOTE=Charles Dye
Well, @ least you didn't show'em the secret handshake.[/QUOTE]



Never!!!


Don't worry, we'll just change the shortcut on them

[absrec]

Originally Posted by s-boogie

but too be on topic i´d like to say that mp3 sounds real good
but the different form of compression still can be heard
compared to uncompressed waves!
...or do my ears fool me?

I think there is a lot of negative hype about MP3s. I also think that the low quality MP3s give the high quality ones a bad name. They remind people that there is degradation going on. Then those same people think based on that, that there couldn't ever be an MP3 that sounds good.

I generally convert mixes down to 160k or 192k to send over the net to out of town clients. From time to time, I've even burned them onto CD just for curiousity. I can't tell a difference. Maybe if I A/B'd them side by side.... but that's not really the point, is it?