How'd you get your job? (In Music)

[Tibbon]

Hi all! For those of you making a living in the music business, what was the path that led you to getting your current job? How many years did you spend as an intern (and where), an assistant, etc...

Did you get the jobs by networkings, people hearing your stuff and calling you, publically posted jobs, just banging on studio doors?

I'm just curious as to know the path that each person took, almost as a mini-resume (Not looking for bands you've worked with, just where you worked and how long, etc..)

[bunnerabb]

Got in a band in 7th grade. We got paid to play. People clapped. Never looked back.

[AlexLakis]

I told my tale in this thread...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ghlight=school

I'll take this opportunity to once again lobby for a sticky thread or something where people can post their background stories. I think a lot of people could learn from it. Maybe put it in the "members only" section...

[Jose Mrochek]

I got in a band at 15, I made my first ¨real¨ bucks as a producer last year. (i´m 28)

Did an internship/assisting job at a high end facility in Miami where I met alot of famous artists and producers. Had to leave because my 2 year degree at fullsail didn´t qualify me for a US working visa. Thought the world had come to an end.. but after a couple years i´m back on track recording my own music and with production jobs here and there. Now Bolivia has a drug dealer as president so I can see SSL rooms coming by the dozen. I still want to go to the states though. LA is my final destination.

[maskedman72]

i knew the studio owner and he let me intern for about a year than cut me loose on my own.

[Musiclab]

I gave me a job, seriously, I was earning a living as a guitar player, one studio I worked at liked some of my song demos and asked if I wanted to learn how to record for real. I wrapped wires punched in and within 6 months was doing my own sessions, I still earn part of my living as a guitar player, the majority is from the studio.

[daeve]

i'm sure this one is going to piss someone off 2 weeks before i was done skool ( dfegad trebas) oops ehe. a buddy and i were offered a full studio to run on our own. that was three years ago and have't looked back. now that iam more experinced i realize how important being an intern would have been though. but then i prolly wouldn't run my own studio

dave

[T_R_S]

Took over a bankrupt recording studio for dirt cheap. I liked it better than loading gear @ 3.00AM, working in a smokey room, getting hammered every night, travelling and waking up with stange women.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Took over a bankrupt recording studio for dirt cheap. I liked it better than loading gear @ 3.00AM, working in a smokey room, getting hammered every night, travelling and waking up with stange women.

why?

[84K]

I slept my way to the bottom







Played in bands, shook some hands, blah-blah-blah

[joelpatterson]

Long story short... hit 30, and wondered what happened to all my grandiose dreams of making some kind of mark in a creative realm... working in construction and basically whittling my life away...


So, damn it, I had to do something. I'd taken piano lessons as a child, I could bang out a few chords on a guitar. So I tagged along with a friend of mine in a "real" band and after their session I threw down a jingle for my friends at their sporting goods store. Re-wrote an old camp song I remembered... ("Lost Valley is the greatest camp... When it's not cold and damp..." Which I cleverly reworked to "Mountain Goat is the greatest store... There's ever been before!" I told you, creative. One verse I held my nose and sang the lyric like a Gay 90's crooner and overdubbed "shhhcztztzshhh" sounds with my mouth, to make believe this was an old 78 they'd found...)

And after a few bouts of this... it dawned on me that the studio owners were the only ones making any money at this, and there were lots of percs, like hearing new stuff every day, and even if it was an oddball like me with his crazy project, he'd be gone by the next day. So I threw everything I had into building a studio, top floor of a barn behind our house. Built a new barn/studio in 1995, and here I am today. I never had a business plan or did any market research, I just launched out on blind faith. Some lean times, to be sure... early on, managing a CD duplication, I was down to the 25 cents I'd need for the toll on the highway, and then I would deliver the CDs and get a check for it. But all along, I knew that breaking down and "getting a job" would be the death knell. I mean, if your idea is that you're going to "leave yourself an out" if times get tough... baby, I guarantee times will get tough. So I left myself no out.

So the lesson I've drawn from all this, which is entirely distorted by my own luck, is that you can accomplish anything you try.

[jomo1234]

Intern, intern, intern....

Sure, you're going to do a lot of sh*t work, but getting your foot in the door is the biggest battle. If you're diligent, reliable, follow instructions and are eager to learn, you can go far. I own and run a record label and have worked in studios. I've been though literally 100's of interns over the past 15 years. Nearly every employee I have hired during that time period has started as an intern.

I moved to NYC in 1991 right out of college and got an internship at EMI...6 months later I was given a paying job. Nothing is a waste of time if it is helping you reach your goal.

[chuckj]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I mean, if your idea is that you're going to "leave yourself an out" if times get tough... baby, I guarantee times will get tough. So I left myself no out.

So the lesson I've drawn from all this, which is entirely distorted by my own luck, is that you can accomplish anything you try.

Excellent point. I believe it was Ellis Marsalis that stated in an interview that when potential students and their parents come in to talk to him about admission to his college jazz program he insists that there is no "fallback plan". Becasue if you have one, you will use it when things get tough. It's not for everybody but is sure is a serious source of motivation!

[Tibbon]

I guess the thing that bums me the most is that it seems that unless you have a Grammy under your arm, that when you stop engineering for a while you have to start at interning again. I was engineering mostly full time for a while (business was rough at first so the number of hours and paid hours varied), but then there was a whole fiasco involving an ex of mine and the studio owner and that was it for me so I left immediately. Now trying to get back into it, it seems that I have to step down from actually engineering, to toilet/coffee duty again. I made friend with a few other engineering the area, but mainly ones of super small studios that were having us do work for them and I'm not sure that interning for them for 6 months or more would yield me a paying job, let alone the fact that I would have to live basically homeless since I wouldn't be able to pay rent then.

I'm going back to finish up these classes, so I might be able to pull off an internship in the next while, but then I don't want to be in Boston for too long because this city feels dead for music. So then I have the problem again that I have to move to yet another city and start off interning AGAIN, because unless they know who you are (which is unlikely between cities some distance away and just starting out) then you have to start at the bottom again.

I could (and hope) I'm wrong.

Thanks for the input so far. I'm really wanting to get into/back into things and it seems so difficult to live on no/little income and still pay the bills.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by jomo1234

Intern, intern, intern....

Sure, you're going to do a lot of sh*t work, but getting your foot in the door is the biggest battle. If you're diligent, reliable, follow instructions and are eager to learn, you can go far. I own and run a record label and have worked in studios. I've been though literally 100's of interns over the past 15 years. Nearly every employee I have hired during that time period has started as an intern.

I moved to NYC in 1991 right out of college and got an internship at EMI...6 months later I was given a paying job. Nothing is a waste of time if it is helping you reach your goal.

Would you suggest only interning at large studios? I'd imagine you'd get the same janitorial experience in a small studio as a large one. The only thing i'm afraid of is that I have spoken frankly with a few studio owners around Boston and at least half of them feel that the only point of interns is free labour and that they have no intents of ever hiring them, or teaching them anything.

I found two studios near boston (and by that I mean about 1 hour away by car, which I don't have and can't afford... esp if i'm not being paid), both by fellow GS's that I would have loved to intern at, but I can't find anything in Boston itself.

[enharmonic]

When I was working in the business, I got my job by graduating with honors from the audio school where I would later work. Then, when I wasn't giving tours or straightening the tape library/studio/bathrooms, making the lunch run, answering phones, etc., I was in the room.

One day, they started giving me sessions, and then it was sink or swim. I was swimming quite nicely until I got hit by a drunk driver. I needed too much time to recover, as well as extra sets of hands to get through a session. It wasn't working out, so I had to bail. The studio was happy with my performance, but I wasn't...not for what they were charging people.

I'd love to get back to it one day if I could find the right opportunity. I couldn't start over working for free though...the window I had where I could afford to do that is long gone.

For you, I would suggest finding the best people in your area that you can possibly work for, and work for them. You'll likely do a lot of the janitorial, food, and maintenance things that nobody really wants to do, but in order for it to be worth it, you have to be around the best people you can be around. You won't get better any other way...unless you're a natural and just need to get your hands on some knobs and faders. I've never met one of those, but I have met a lot of excellent engineers who all started out the same way...paying their dues and working for the best people they could work for in their region. In Boston, that's a lot of people, but competition is likely fierce. You will have to have some level of skill to get the best gig...even as a "tea boy"

[soundofmind]

Im on my third month of an internship as we speak, (writing this at the ssl), and I couldnt have asked for anyhting better. Sure I was taking out garbage, washing dishes, and hunting down mango sorbet at 2:30 in the morning for a while, but no where else would I have already worked with platinum artists within my first three months.

Like they say, getting in is the hard part..if youre a hard worker and a good person you'll go far. I dont know what the future holds for me, but its a lot brighter than when I was just sitting in my home studio working for peanuts.

[7 Hz]

A combination of bad luck and stupidity.

thumbsup

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by soundofmind

Im on my third month of an internship as we speak, (writing this at the ssl), and I couldnt have asked for anyhting better. Sure I was taking out garbage, washing dishes, and hunting down mango sorbet at 2:30 in the morning for a while, but no where else would I have already worked with platinum artists within my first three months.

Like they say, getting in is the hard part..if youre a hard worker and a good person you'll go far. I dont know what the future holds for me, but its a lot brighter than when I was just sitting in my home studio working for peanuts.

great post. even if you are working for more than peanuts doing an intership is a hell of a great experience. because as much as people like to say the opposite , the music industry still revolves around the majors and nobody I know of would get offended by being a grammy nominee. And the only way to get there is by networking with the big guys, aka.. the big rooms.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Would you suggest only interning at large studios? .

why would you intern for a small facility ? when you can go ahead and purchase your own 001 and be the owner of a home studio ? you want to learn chops ? do it on your own.. you want to go for a grammy? ... only in the big rooms with the big guys. it´s that simple really.

[jomo1234]

I don't think the size of the studio matters as much as the quality of the staff. Make sure that you're going to be comfortable working with the people at the studio. If you feel your time there will be really abused, or if they simply have no intent in helping you acquire some real world knowledge, find another facility.

Just because a studio owner has no intent in hiring you doesnt mean you shouldn't take an internship there. I would be clear and upfront with the owner/manager before you accept an internship. If you're going to be scrubbing toilets, make sure that you'll also be able to get some time observing and learning. I've found the best learning times are before and after sessions. Get there early, help set up, and LOOK AND LISTEN. You can learn so much about mic placement & usage, gain staging, phasing issues, signal paths, use of a patch bay, etc. After the session, you can learn a lot too. If the client doesn't mind, ask if you can sit in a back corner and observe the session in progress.

FYI....I recently did a project at Wooly Mammoth Studios in Boston, which is a nice mid level facility. If I am not mistaken, the engineer we worked with started there as an intern while going to school.

This is certainly isnt an easy path, but being diligent, earnest and hard working can yield a lot of knowledge....and hopefully employment.

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Would you suggest only interning at large studios? I'd imagine you'd get the same janitorial experience in a small studio as a large one. The only thing i'm afraid of is that I have spoken frankly with a few studio owners around Boston and at least half of them feel that the only point of interns is free labour and that they have no intents of ever hiring them, or teaching them anything.

I found two studios near boston (and by that I mean about 1 hour away by car, which I don't have and can't afford... esp if i'm not being paid), both by fellow GS's that I would have loved to intern at, but I can't find anything in Boston itself.

[jomo1234]

Buying an 001 and setting up a home studio won't give you the experiece of working in a professional facility. Home studios are great, but it is no substitute when you are trying to learn the ropes.

Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek

why would you intern for a small facility ? when you can go ahead and purchase your own 001 and be the owner of a home studio ? you want to learn chops ? do it on your own.. you want to go for a grammy? ... only in the big rooms with the big guys. it´s that simple really.

[dbbubba]

I know how I got in this business.
Who do I **** to get out of it?


No seriously....

My dad had a LP Jr. and an Alamo amp in '62 when the Beatles hit.
I was in the 2nd grade.
That part was immedeately taken care of!

When I was in the 5th grade dad bought a Realistic (Radio Shack) reel to reel deck.
It had a play/record head and an erase head.
This is automatic sync.
Each track had a record button.
You could record two tracks at seperate times!

When I was in the 6th grade my parents divorced and the rig was MINE!

4 track AKAI in 10th grade (I built sync into with MUCH trial and error!)
8 track 1" when I was 19 (16 x 3 UA all tube 610 type console w/124 12ax7as!!!!)
16 track when I was 23
24 track when I was 25
sold business and played in bands
worked in feature film production

bought another 24 track room when I was 30
sold when I was 36

worked at a studio that did radio/TV for seven years
(SONY 3324 / Otari MTR90ii / Neve / MCI JH24 / Sphere Eclipse C / 6 WaveFrame 1000s / every evolution of ProTools / eight rooms

moved to another studio for that had SSL / 3324 / Otari MTR 90iii / Neve 8068 mkII /
Pro Tools / 02rs / DA88s / three big rooms / I was given a Synclavier to play with (?)

In 2000 I moved my stuff home and left the biz. I was through with the long hours and low income! I was probebly making as much as or more than any engineer in town, but it wern't enough!

Joined my friend (ironically the intern at the 8 track studio in 1975!) and we run his production company where I oversee corporate AV events. Lot's of travel (you name a city and I'll go there this year!) I use all of my knowledge base. A grown man income, too!

i still have a MOTU DP4.6 based studio with Sphere mic pres and EQs, dBx165s, 1176s, Lexicon 224, Lexicon 200, 01v (for monitoring) Studer A810 and all of my thirty plus years of GTRs, amps and KYBDs. I do about two Cds for select friends per year.

There you go!

Carve your own niche and go for it.
Be a bumb.
Sleep on your parent's couch until you get kicked out.
Get a girlfriend with a job.
Sleep at the studio.
Join a band so you can tour and don't need a pad.
Build a studio and maybe you can make enough money to rent a house, too!

If you want to make real money, find another vocation!

Danny Brown

[John Suitcase]

Were any of you guys at TapeOpCon this past June, when Emily Lazar chewed out Steve Albini et al for not charging enough/valuing their work highly enough?

It was very interesting, everyone in the biz tends to get this attitude of "You can't make any money" yet there are people making plenty of cash.

I'm as guilty as the next guy, I'm just curious how it happens that some guys (and girls) end up making the big bucks, while the other 99% are scraping by. I know the cream rises and all that, but I have the feeling that there's something more to it...

[enharmonic]

Emily Lazar is a beauty

[dbbubba]

I wasn't scrapeing by, but I didn't make anywhere what I needed to have a family, kids, a nice house in a nice part of town with good schools, decent cars. You know... the stuff that normal adults have?

I live and prefer to live in Dallas.
I just topped out what you make in this market!

I have a good friend who WAS my intern of sorts fiftenn years ago who now lives in Hollywood and has a room and rental company.
He makes decent money, but he lives in a wierd world and spends all of his money to live in a one room apartment.
He's always working on his car, but he has more gear than anyone I've ever seen!
I don't want to live that way!
I lived in L.A. once.
I travel there and to almost every city in the U.S. during the year, too.
I just prefer here!

I have another friend who is the head engineer at a studio that has an 80 input SSL and everything else.
He has a Grammy nomination, too.
He's ready to go freelance and do something else.

Eventually, you want more in life.
Kids'll do that!

Hell! I've owned the equivelent of three complete studios in my life.
It's all a just bunch of gear.
It doen't really put groceries on the table!
Talent does that!

I just had the desire to use my brains and abilities to make more money than in the studio biz!
And I had a VERY "successful" studio, too!
I was lucky!
I used to do the "cool ass" gigs!
Ask people who know me.
Now, I'd barely have the patience!

I still love to record and mix.
Just not everyone and that's what you have to do to make real money unless you are one of the VERY lucky people.
I just spent too many years sitting in a studio making stuff I guess.
You'll be there yourslef some day probebly!

Danny Brown

[joelpatterson]

And if you play your cards right, you'll find Emily Lazar screaming at you.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by jomo1234

Buying an 001 and setting up a home studio won't give you the experiece of working in a professional facility. Home studios are great, but it is no substitute when you are trying to learn the ropes.

it was an exageration to make the same point you did. that is why I said grammy material : )

in other words.. anyone can be an engineer/producer.. it´s not rocket science, but the real deal is happening at the big studios where the big guys are working. That is where you really learn like you said.

the high quality engineers who now have ¨home¨ studios got their start by assisting the big names. At least the majority did. So I say again, why intern for a small studio ? I would rather clean britney´s butt than.. engineer for the best band in katmandu : )

[Eric Greedy]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

Were any of you guys at TapeOpCon this past June, when Emily Lazar chewed out Steve Albini et al for not charging enough/valuing their work highly enough?

It was very interesting, everyone in the biz tends to get this attitude of "You can't make any money" yet there are people making plenty of cash.

I'm as guilty as the next guy, I'm just curious how it happens that some guys (and girls) end up making the big bucks, while the other 99% are scraping by. I know the cream rises and all that, but I have the feeling that there's something more to it...

It's called a hit record