Tips for stopping massive reverbs getting muddy?

[pbs]

A little pre-delay and eqing the reverb return can help a lot

[yllet]

Originally Posted by pbs

A little pre-delay and eqing the reverb return can help a lot

Use a low cut filer after the reverb (if used as send), something like 250hz might do the trick. Other options is to use a big delay instead of reverb.

/Jon

[Slikjmuzik]

I use an EQ hi and lo cut filters on an insert after the inserted reverb on a send. Believe it or not, I cut up pretty high, up to 250hz on most reverbs and also cut out just about everything above 12khz as well. When it comes to vocals, I'll also add the same EQ that i might have boosted the vocal with and use that same EQ on the send after the initial EQ that's removing frequencies generally above and below a certain point and I'll also pull down a little bit until the vocal pops in areas I've boosted. I'm knowing for setting the voice pretty into the track because I like guitars to be at the same volume, but somehow people say my vocals are still heard fine. I think it's because of this. As an example, if I've boosted 700hz with a UAD 1073 on the vocal buss. On the vocal send, I'll load another 1073 and cut there. Point is, if I've boosted somewhere in the vocal, I've done it for a reason and feeding that frequency boosted to the reverb will make the reverb respond to that particular frequency's boosted gain. I don't need my reverb working double duty on that frequency. I'll sweep somewhere in the mids until I find a frequency I like for that and voice to get boosted while making sure I've cut where I've booste on the vocal. Does this make sense? You keep your reverb dense and smooth without the muddiness this way...especially if you're mixing in the box like I do, every advantage you have over analog should be used.

[KRStudio]

I prefer to EQ out unwanted freqs before hitting the reverb instead of after.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by KRStudio

I prefer to EQ out unwanted freqs before hitting the reverb instead of after.

I agree, it's better to keep the muddy stuff out of the reverb in the first place.

--Ethan

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by KRStudio

I prefer to EQ out unwanted freqs before hitting the reverb instead of after.

The voice or instrument may not sound muddy on its own, but the combination of the 2 may make it sound that way. The reverb itself may be very dense in an area that within his particular mix makes it sound like it's the voice, but really not. Thus, why I do what I do. Eq'ing the voice and the reverb to fit the mix you are sculpting are 2 different things.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by KRStudio

I prefer to EQ out unwanted freqs before hitting the reverb instead of after.

This. And, more specifically, I like to dynamically filter the sends to the reverb. A DPR-901 might seem like complete overkill to strap across the output of an aux send, but it's a freakin' Swiss Army Knife when it comes to pulling magic out of yer ass.

[Dean Roddey]

Even better, in a DAW, just create a reverb bus, then create vocal reverb bus, drum reverb bus, guitar reverb bus, each of which just routers forward to the reverb bus. Then you can put an EQ on each of them, and separately EQ the reverb send signal for different instruments, while still using a single reverb. For something like drums you might put a limiter on the drum reverb bus as well, to heavily smooth out the signal going to the reverb.

Though you might still want to put an EQ after the reverb, because it does create new frequency content beyond what's going in.

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Even better, in a DAW, just create a reverb bus, then create vocal reverb bus, drum reverb bus, guitar reverb bus, each of which just routers forward to the reverb bus. Then you can put an EQ on each of them, and separately EQ the reverb send signal for different instruments, while still using a single reverb. For something like drums you might put a limiter on the drum reverb bus as well, to heavily smooth out the signal going to the reverb.

This

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Even better, in a DAW, just create a reverb bus, then create vocal reverb bus, drum reverb bus, guitar reverb bus, each of which just routers forward to the reverb bus. Then you can put an EQ on each of them, and separately EQ the reverb send signal for different instruments, while still using a single reverb. For something like drums you might put a limiter on the drum reverb bus as well, to heavily smooth out the signal going to the reverb.

Though you might still want to put an EQ after the reverb, because it does create new frequency content beyond what's going in.

Exactly what i'm talking about. Lately, I've been using a stereo reverb on a send, followed by a mono plate reverb for vocals. I've also compressed with a Fairchild and added EQ after that!! All on a send. Totally not the same as just EQ'ing a vocal and just sending that signal to a send that only has one plug-in reverb by itself on the insert.

[DrFrankencopter]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Even better, in a DAW, just create a reverb bus, then create vocal reverb bus, drum reverb bus, guitar reverb bus, each of which just routers forward to the reverb bus. Then you can put an EQ on each of them, and separately EQ the reverb send signal for different instruments, while still using a single reverb. For something like drums you might put a limiter on the drum reverb bus as well, to heavily smooth out the signal going to the reverb.

Though you might still want to put an EQ after the reverb, because it does create new frequency content beyond what's going in.

While you're at it, you can also add a short delay (full wet) to each buss and have that serve as adjustable pre-delay for each instrument. This would let you put things at the back of the reverb space with a low pre-delay, and bring other instruments forward with a higher pre-delay.

Cheers

Kris

[Gebo]

I usually side chain the drum bus verb off of the kick (so the reverb volume gets reduced when the kick hits). I also don't send the kick to the reverb bus. The echoing low end gathers and makes things get muddy IMHO.

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

On my console, I eq the sends and returns both, sometimes heavily, sometimes barely any. Especially the send to my plate reverb, usually cutting some lows, and maybe mids near 900 to 1k.

Pre-delay also a good suggestion. Gating ...old 80's trick. Stop the reverb before next beat. Expansion too.

I had a buddy that used to use a dbx single ended NR box on the return. It had an "ambience" control, which did something to the mids.

You could effectively make the reverb more "dense" in the mids, or carve out a niche with the thing for the dry signals to sit in. It also of course had an expander, so yeah. I am going to look on ebay for the thing after hearing some old mixes done with it on the return of a 480. It was one of those BX whatever things.

Lowish end, but very cool.

peace,
j

[Flying_Dutchman]

eq - cut like said before or more
panning - guitar left, reverb right for example
type of reverb - ambience vs hall
length of decay
pre delay
delays instead of reverb

[AcoosticZoo]

That effect you like - that I'm hearing has been automated. ie. the returns for the reverb has been automated manually to avoid the muddiness as appose to if it were to be statically placed that loud throughout the entire mix.

If you eq the reverb by taking out the lower mids you'll loose the warmth of the reverb you're after. Removing the mud in the Reverb isn't by eq sometimes, if you have a multiband setting to control the decay in the lower mids, try winding it back a tad according to taste.

Also, there's a delay on the reverb that is in sync with the BPM of the song.

Latter in the song 2:43 + the delay is more prominent. Notice how the mix engineer rides the echo/reverb so you hear it at parts to give the illusion of something more.

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

[Froombosch]

Besides EQ-ing the reverb you also can try shortening the reverb at lower frequencies. That takes a lot of mud out. It is the equivalent of adding basstraps in your room.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

I agree, it's better to keep the muddy stuff out of the reverb in the first place.

--Ethan

+100000000000. It is amazing how you can shape a reverb EQing the send to it. Then you are pre-emphasizing the actual drive of reverb and the tail will be driven tonally in the shape you want, instead of trying to cut stuff that is already resonant and/or funky sounding in it. Makes a big difference. There is a reason the UAD EMT 140 has pre-EQ instead of post.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Froombosch

Besides EQ-ing the reverb you also can try shortening the reverb at lower frequencies.

That's a great point, and I do that all the time. I don't know how many reverbs let you control that, but the Sonitus reverb I use (from SONAR Producer) has separate reverb time controls for lows and highs, and you can adjust the crossover frequency too.

--Ethan

[Froombosch]

The trick is that you do not want to take out some of the low frequencies, but just the mud. Every reverb needs that control IMHO.