limiter release time on vox

[fixitinthemix]

What is appropriate? I have a hard time finding any good settings and I want to try limiting vocals for a change.

[Sigma]

its program dependent so whether its a fast rap "spit out" of a slow ballad the vocal cadence, rythm and speed determine the setting..use your ears..if you can't hear differences you shouldn't engineer..no slight but presets are for people who can't hear

[MasterCrab]

Originally Posted by Sigma

.if you can't hear differences you shouldn't engineer.

Isn't this a bit harsh..

Maybe he's not doing it in a perfect environment for example..

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by MasterCrab

Isn't this a bit harsh..

Maybe he's not doing it in a perfect environment for example..

huh? if you job is to LISTEN and manipulate sound how can you even say that?..if he's mixing in a cube next to an printing press on computer speakers..he shouldn't be

it just so happens i have 3 students i'm giving private instruction to and i'm working on compressor/limiters at the moment for all 3 [i tailor my instruction ant it happened by chance]

you need to LEARN how to listen and WHAT to listen for..there is no "blanket or correct" setting

you have to know what you WANT to hear..then manipulate the tool to achieve the desired effect

[12ax7]

.
There is nothing really new about this question.

Dynamic processing is one of the LEAST understood aspects of music production.

In short (and trying not to be harsh here), asking this question is kinda like asking: "Where should I turn my steering wheel to take Exit 18?".

It makes alot more sense to learn what compressors and limiters DO (and why) than it does to ask for settings.

...Unfortunately, I still have yet to see much in writing that explains all this any better than just playing around with a good compressor, and listening to the results.

Good judgment comes from experience.

Experience comes from poor judgment.

Just keep twiddling and listening, and you will get your "aha moments."
.

[Flying_Dutchman]

to understand realease time it´s good to try with rock drums imo
take a snare and set the release time like it´s kind of soaking the next hit, like reverse reverb
than the compressor underlines the groove or creates a "micro" groove
it´s getting more alive
use good headphones
percussive instruments are easier to undertand imo
learn this
than proceed with vocals imo


it´s no problem in being interested in getting better imo
some questions maybe are "dump" to "pros" maybe, but imo there are no really dump questions, if you learn something
compressors aren´t easy, many designs and many different situations imo
peace

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman

to understand realease time it´s good to try with rock drums imo
take a snare and set the release time like it´s kind of soaking the next hit, like reverse reverb
than the compressor underlines the groove or creates a "micro" groove
it´s getting more alive
use good headphones
percussive instruments are easier to undertand imo
learn this
than proceed with vocals imo


it´s no problem in being interested in getting better imo
some questions maybe are "dump" to "pros" maybe, but imo there are no really dump questions, if you learn something
compressors aren´t easy, many designs and many different situations imo
peace

thumbsupthumbsup
i always start on snares and kicks..the attack first then the release stuff..showing them that if the release are certain lengths that the return to 0 may not happen on the next hit dependent on the tempo and pattern of the drums ..AND what that sounds like compared to the release returning to 0 and the attack setting hitting each hit independently

when i teach attack i nail it with a quick hit then let the attack pass thru ..recording both attack rates..looking at the resultant waveforms ..scrolling over the time bar to show milliseconds in where compression occurs and listening to the audio of each to show the extremes THEN getting into the more subtle settings in between

NEVER TEACH USING THE DIGIDESIGN compressor/limiter..the rates are not what the controls indicate.. i brought it up to avid and they denied it

i even sent recorded waveform screenshoots with the plug in settings visible

i use the api 2500 plug in when i teach my first part of compressors

[Flying_Dutchman]

haha
digidesing comps aren´t working
i was at a small studio doind advertisment jobs
they only had the digidesing stuff
i hooked 3 comps after each other and it was still not really getting it
it´s a bad joke imo
i took the files home and did send back the result

i don´t teach and i don´t own the software Api, i tried, but hell, a real one is a different animal really, its on my list, i can get it sometimes from freinds, but i want it, wonderfull imo
i would like to get it itb, but no chance
we tried a real 1176 copy just yesterday and tried to emultate with UAD and Softube
No Chance, really
PM me if you want the files
I´m no "vintage" guy or so, it´s just frustrating itb.... and i started itb
hell
RNC isnt bad imo
just need a wet/dry imo

if i got fast snare parts for example i set another track with differnet times
the main part has to soak different :-)

peace

[mobilemozart]

Originally Posted by fixitinthemix

What is appropriate? I have a hard time finding any good settings and I want to try limiting vocals for a change.

Not too short... and longer, the more dB's you knock off. Also depends on whether you're just trying to catch a few peaks every few seconds (try anything between 100 and 500 ms which I consider quite long for a peak limiter esp. if its a plug-in) or you want to hold a constant level by always keeping it in the gain reduction.

[fixitinthemix]

Originally Posted by mobilemozart

Not too short... and longer, the more dB's you knock off. Also depends on whether you're just trying to catch a few peaks every few seconds (try anything between 100 and 500 ms which I consider quite long for a peak limiter esp. if its a plug-in) or you want to hold a constant level by always keeping it in the gain reduction.

Thank you for the only answer!

Well when I'm on the comp they land between 150 and 270 approx. I had the feeling that the limiter could work good with shorter times like say.. 70 which was what I tried. I should try some longer times tomorrow then. Auto on L2 sounded ok but not really what I wanted.

[andonwego]

u know what could be cool is automating the release time to CHANGE over the course of a particular word or whatever

this is gonna be program dependant and the guy in the white lab coat in your mind is going to be saying 'no that is not the correct way of doing this'

but if you automate the release time to start high and then drop to .01 milliseconds or very low or whatever, it CAN (*DEPENDING ON A LOT*) make certain words POP with a satisfying something or another


I love using weird automation to achieve 'etheric' effects in microseconds of audio.

[PEImatrix]

Originally Posted by Sigma

its program dependent

+ 1 on this

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by fixitinthemix

Thank you for the only answer!

When it comes to questions about compression, the IS NO "ONLY answer"!!!

[Sigma]

the posters question is obtuse..maybe if you qualified it like i'm doing a rap song at 120 beats per min and im looking for this type of result [maybe naming a song in the same style with the sound you want] because the vocals sound like this without compression/limiting

someone can chortle in an at least "in the ball park response" but the way you posit it... any setting could have merit

it's sad if you think that's the only answer BTW...what other posts say really means much more about the interplay when using a variable attack and release device than the vague answer you relate to

[fixitinthemix]

It was the only answer I had use of. I needed a ball park..

Tried with the longer release times today and it sounded a lot better. An 8th approx seems to work as a starting point. I want it to sound like say u2 or glasvegas. I want it to sound.. "smooth"

[solo-bration]

Gotta love when someone asks for advice and the advice is to either quit or let the advice-giving pro have the job instead.

Engineering is a cut-throat business!

[DaVinci]

7.36471

[Steffmo]

Several great engineers have told me that when their mentors taught them about compressors the were told "close your eyes and move knobs til it sounds the way you want.

Of course...that means you have to have some idea of what you want........

[DaVinci]

Originally Posted by Steffmo

Several great engineers have told me that when their mentors taught them about compressors the were told "close your eyes and move knobs til it sounds the way you want.

Of course...that means you have to have some idea of what you want........

...AND some good guidelines as to how to approach it, and what specifically to listen for at each point. Without that, you could spend forever without actually getting closer to your goal.

[Jimsi]

it depends on vocal phrazing and learning the tempo of vox...you dont want such a long release time where your softer vocal passages are still in a more compressed state , then your release time should be shorter...and your threshold would be higher....it takes time to learn the use of compressor, it did for me....

some people over use the threshold,dont compress softer passages, just use it for the loudest part of your vocals around 10:1 or as a limiter and thats it....my .00000000001 cents worth opinon

[Sigma]

i look at a compressor / limiter as a waveform dependent eq in many instances

[bigfurry]

With a limiter I assume you're going for an obvious or exciting sound? A lot of guys use say an 1176 with really fast releases for this purpose, but you are introducing distortion when you do that. Amazing for getting a vocal to cut thru a busy aggressive mix, but can easily be overdone- I speak from personal experience...
So listen get to know the sound of fast release clipping by overdoing it, and then back it out on your mix until the vocal cuts thru but doesn't sound unpleasant. Thats my suggestion, YMMV