what compressors do you NEED for tracking?

[arpodthegreat]

i have decided that i should focus purchasing gear with tracking more than mixing in mind. i figure i can always rent stuff for mixing but tracking stuff i want to own most of what i use. i do your average rock and acoustic music and don´t have any good compressors yet. i don´t want to spend more than 1500 a channel but if i can get away with less that would be great. particularly drawn to urei LA-4 and DBX 160 for the bang for the buck thing. what compressors do you NEED for tracking?

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by arpodthegreat

what compressors do you NEED for tracking?

None.... glad I could save you some cash, spend it on some nice pres, EQ's and mics.

thumbsup

I EQ to tape sometimes but I don't compress while tracking very often if ever, maybe vocals if the talent is not so talented.

If you are planning on sending tracks out to mix then you should choose a guy or gal with good ears and good equipment. Let them decide what needs compressed and what does not. If you over compress it going in you are pretty much stuck with it but if you track with good mics, good pres and use good placement that will make the mix engineers job much easier than if you used a good tracking compressor IMHO.

Good luck, hope this helps.

[AdamJay]

the typical 1176 and Distressor recommendations will soon flood in, and they are warranted. i hope you are on high ground.

i don't mind tracking OH's or Rooms through an FMR RNLA ($225).
and while on the low end, i really like the sound of the Ashly SC-50 Mono Compressor/Limiter on Guitars ($50-$100). That 70's solid state tone is just killer, and doesn't sound like half the tripe on the radio today (that is a good thing)

I heard a Symetrix 501 ($150) on a Room mic earlier this week. Sounded pretty fecking great, surprised me a bit. I'm gonna hunt one down i think.

an affordable Vocal compressor is the Drawmer DL241. $700 for 2 channels.

Compressing on the way in, less is more. you want to save room for corrections on the way out. But for sources that you know will be compressed anyway (snare, guitars) it is indeed helpful to get a great sound before you hit the converters. And much of this is knowing the gear you own, rather than WHAT gear you own. My advice is get the sound you want as best you can on the way in.. and then pull off a little bit on the compression, say a dB or two of GR, to be safe.

[GYMusic]

Aphex 661, Distressor, dbx 163A for electric guitar and Symextrix 501A for bass.

[Kenny Gioia]

I never ever ever ever compress drums to tape. (maybe a room mic)

Vocals and Bass. Never acoustic guitars at all. Electric Gt only in the mix.

So with Vocals and Bass I would really only need LA3a's, Distressors and maybe LA2a's.

The Neve stuff (very expensive) can all be used in the mix.

Good Luck.

[T. Morgan]

I compress drum rooms, guitars, vocal, bass...just about everything except K ,S and OH's....I save those for mixing options.
Gotta have my Urei's...prefer opto's.

[bpatural]

if you're looking for bang for the buck try 160x 's...nice for simple level control and punchiness on kick and snr. for room mics and vocals 1176's are great....silver ones are around your price range....and for bass, ac gtr and really everything distressors are killer and right in the price range.
as for compressing to disk....if you do it right , you need less comps on mixdown...
-brian

[JonCraig]

not_so_new is right... you don't NEED any going in. however, pretty close to "need" is "really want to have", and for vocals, i really want to have a nice opto in there. tubetech cl1b, la3a, la2a are great choices (but are costly). surprisingly, dbx 160VU (the older ones) and 165a's sound pretty good on a vocal.

if you've got some money to throw around, and you're looking to track, spend the cash on the room first!!! then your monitors. then mics, then pres. then think about whether or not you'd like converters or compressors. that's a good order, methinks.

food for thought.

--jon

[warhead]

I compress vocals and bass guitar almost as a rule, but little else heading in. I use a Safe Sound Audio P1 for a vocal compressor and for ME it is a must have as it allows singers to get loud when needed without heavily affecting the take.

Yes I'm biased but you asked.

War

[NathanEldred]

Maybe a little Crane Song Trakker or some Purple MC77. Usually bass and vocals. I'll set one of those above as a limiter during tracking on acoustics or clean guitars lightly too since it's all I usually use in mix and it frees the outboard piece for something else during mix, I try to keep it transparent as possible.

[picksail]

I'd be fine with just a Distressor.

It's not JUST a compressor.

[Eric Greedy]

If your asking...then less is more. But, I'd have one for vocals and a-gtrs, at least. And in that case: 1176, LA2A and then distressors.

[84K]

When Tracking:

To Tape , little or no compressors needed.

Digital , Purple MC77 or an 1176 would be my top pick of must have on hand

[arpodthegreat]

i knew a lot of people don´t track with compression but i didn´t know that it was gonna be like this. this is really dissapointing. i sorta knew the distressor thing was gonna happen. i like tracking with compression just so that i don´t have to do it later and cuz i just got used to it but i guess i really should cut back a lot (especially digital tracking). but def for bass and vox. i´m leaning for an MC 77 or two. maybe an LA-4 with the Alcatronics mod (fer stereo rooms and vox or whatever.)
i have a couple of DBX 160a should i sell them and get the older 160x? from what i found on this site there´s either almost no difference or there´s a little difference or i should just run over the 160a with a semi. i think i might be able to actually turn a proffit if i sell em on ebay and get 160x instead. might get a 160VU cuz i know this guy who could sell a pair to me.
i was also thinking 1968 since its cool for tracking and mixing and maybe a Fatso Jr. cuz that´s something i´ll prolly always mix with and i should prolly just have one.
last thing i was wondering is that i´ve heard that it can be good to track with more compression if you´re using tape cuz then you can hit it harder if that´s what you´re looking for.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by arpodthegreat

last thing i was wondering is that i´ve heard that it can be good to track with more compression if you´re using tape cuz then you can hit it harder if that´s what you´re looking for.

i think you misunderstand...

point #1: tape naturally compresses. it's very musical (unless you start pegging things... but that can work (there's nothing quite like a kick drum making those studer lights blaze...)

point #2: when tracking very dynamic sources (like a vocal) to tape, engineers would often compress on the way in because the dynamic range of tape was relatively small. you don't want the quiet passages down near the noise floor. this became a bit less of an issue with better tape formulations.

compressing to tape doesn't control how hard you can hit tape... the output knob and/or fader does that.

--jon

[picksail]

Nah, I'd hang on to the 160s. They rock on a snare drum. Lightening fast. Way faster than an 1176. It has it's thing and it's cool to have around when that THING is required. I never really heard much of a difference in the (a) versus the (xt). I understood it to be relative to the build quality. I mean, it's a 160. You aren't necessarily shooting for a hi-fi sound with it anyway.

[arpodthegreat]

Originally Posted by JonCraig

i think you misunderstand...

point #1: tape naturally compresses. it's very musical (unless you start pegging things... but that can work (there's nothing quite like a kick drum making those studer lights blaze...)

point #2: when tracking very dynamic sources (like a vocal) to tape, engineers would often compress on the way in because the dynamic range of tape was relatively small. you don't want the quiet passages down near the noise floor. this became a bit less of an issue with better tape formulations.

compressing to tape doesn't control how hard you can hit tape... the output knob and/or fader does that.

--jon

actually i understand all that. this was more advice for tracking REALLY heavy guitars. compression allows you to have an overall louder signal so... you know. i mean for really heavy guitars i don´t really get why it would matter cuz it´s not like the dynamics are that crazy anyways.
but def some interesting responses. some gear you don´t usually hear about from gearsluts. ashly, symetrix, aphex 661, safe sound. never heard of them. like heard of the companies but not these units. people have been holdin out.

[RoundBadge]

Tracking lots of stuff with compression gives you way less latitude when mixing..
remember: you can't undo a bad choice.I'm just as guilty as the next guy..
I'll do the vox and bass too..but with special care not to overdo it[the usual LA/1176/distr/cl1b's all work wonders with the right person at the controls].as well as some room mic's or total experimental optional throwaway tracks[Neve 2254/64,33609,spectrasonics 610's,DBX 160/165 vu's,Distressor,etc,etc work nice] ..and some stuff for just peak limiting[keyboards,horns,dynamic percussion].
But most everything else is left untouched until the whole song is tracked.
Ive learned the hard way a couple of times[especially on vocals] not to overdo it.

[jbuntz]

LA3A and 1176 are both pretty great tracking comps. The LA3A can be slammed on the way in and when youi come back to listen to the vocal track, instead of regretting overcompressing, you're glad it was working "too hard." I also really like the daking fet compressor (maybe it's the II version, i'm not even sure) - it's kind of hard to do much damage with the dakings. The tone of all of these is a bit more exciting to me than the transformerless distressor. The distressor is a bit more powerful to me as a mixing tool since it has more options.

[superburtm]

I like to track drums with a little comp action going on K,S, Room. Also bass, Vox, AGT. THen more in the mix. I like to print a vibe so it doesn't have to be created from scratch in the mix. I dunno do what ever feels good.

160's are cool and cheap. Use whatever ya got. thumbsup

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by arpodthegreat

actually i understand all that. this was more advice for tracking REALLY heavy guitars. compression allows you to have an overall louder signal so... you know.

know what? the amount of compression you have before going to tape isn't going to change at what point you go into tape saturation. sure, if the output of the compressor is up enough, you'll get tape compression in addition to whatever compressor you put first--so you're essentially double-compressing. that's all fine and well, and i do it often (minus the tape part... $$$) but the simple act of compressing first doesn't allow you to hit tape harder. you may get *more* of, say, a sustained note (whose tail is now louder via the outboard compressor) being compressed by tape... is this what you meant?

just making sure someone who may be searching later on for this sort of thing doesn't come across this and get the wrong idea.

--jon

[jho]

I didn't see that anyone mentioned the Fatso. To me that is a great tracking compressor. Great on room mics, acoustic guitars and other stuff. The warm mode comes in handy with really bright, sibilent or transient things.

Fatso - drum room, acoustics
Distressor - bass
ATI Pro6 - snare
ADL1000, LA3A or NY-2A - vocals

The rest of 'em used on the mix..

[WunderBro Flo]

another vote for the fatso! gives you way more options than just a compressor, though I never had problems with the 1176 preset and GR of about 5dB for tracking, great stuff! everything just sounds more solid when gone through the fatso...

[massimo]

I love using a VERY tiny bit of compression (needles barely moving) at tracking acoustic instruments. For some reason, I like what this does to the sound: Pendulum OCL-2 after Millennia Media HV3b preamp

best regards
Massimo

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

None.... I EQ to tape sometimes but I don't compress while tracking very often if ever, maybe vocals if the talent is not so talented.

Cool. I've done it both ways, but much prefer to track with compression. I hear a big difference in the character of compression, pre vs. post conversion; Something is present and can be captured on the way in that simply cannot be duplicated after the fact, IMHO. However, to each his/her own.

BTW, anyone remember Richard Dodd posting that he tracked everything through 1176s with 3 or 4 dB GR, @ 8 or 12:1 to simulate how the ear reacts to dynamics???

Arpodthegreat-
Heavy guitars are essentially the only thing I usually don't compress on the way in! Sometimes a little LA2A, but more for flavor of tube/transformer than dynamic control. Not much 'swing' to a dual rec...

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by blackcatdigi

Cool. I've done it both ways, but much prefer to track with compression. I hear a big difference in the character of compression, pre vs. post conversion; Something is present and can be captured on the way in that simply cannot be duplicated after the fact, IMHO. However, to each his/her own.

BTW, anyone remember Richard Dodd posting that he tracked everything through 1176s with 3 or 4 dB GR, @ 8 or 12:1 to simulate how the ear reacts to dynamics???

Arpodthegreat-
Heavy guitars are essentially the only thing I usually don't compress on the way in! Sometimes a little LA2A, but more for flavor of tube/transformer than dynamic control. Not much 'swing' to a dual rec...

I do agree with all the above to one degree or another, except maybe noticing a difference with compression pre and post conversion but that could be something to do with how the talent is responding to the compressor perhaps? (see below)

Yes I thought that Richards feelings on compression were very interesting.

I am not much for compressing heavy guitars, they are already compressed.

I should amend my statement to say that I don't compress anything but vocals on the way in and that depends on the singer. Less talented singers tend to get some.... errrrr .... "help" from having some compression on. Other more talented singers like compression and it helps their voice sit in the track. Lastly I find some talented singers get turned off with compression because they are good enough with the microphone to work the dynamics themselves. With people like that compression messes with their mojo.

So in summation… ... I don't think you NEED to have a tracking compressor, I don't use compression much at all when tracking, and if I do use a compressor when tracking it is only on vocals and only with some singers but not all.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by massimo

I love using a VERY tiny bit of compression (needles barely moving) at tracking acoustic instruments. For some reason, I like what this does to the sound: Pendulum OCL-2 after Millennia Media HV3b preamp

best regards
Massimo

I do the same - acoustic guitar and piano usually see the Alan Smart C2 with the needles just moving 1 db or so on the peaks. On drums I'm now using the Daking Fet's for kick drum, snare gets a distressor, bass gets the Daking FET, Purple MC76 or EAR660, drum room the Alan Smart again with 3-4db of compression. I pretty much never track electric guitars with compression. And vocals either get the MC76 or EAR 660 depending on the singer. If I use the MC76 I'm not afraid to pummel it on the peaks, 1-2db on most phrases, 8 -14db on peaks.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Lastly I find some talented singers get turned off with compression because they are good enough with the microphone to work the dynamics themselves. With people like that compression messes with their mojo.

i recall and article featuring chuck ainlay where chuck said that he can't compress mark knopfler while tracking, because mark immediately notices and says he can't play that way. (or something to that effect.)

not a vocal, but the principle still applies.

--jon

[dokushoka]

Finger riding a fader > Compressor

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by JonCraig

i recall and article featuring chuck ainlay where chuck said that he can't compress mark knopfler while tracking, because mark immediately notices and says he can't play that way. (or something to that effect.)

not a vocal, but the principle still applies.

--jon

Good point. I think that was in "Behind the Glass" actually, I read it too.

Yes some people notice and hate it some are cool with it. I notice when I am playing guitar, bass and drums but I kind of like it myself.

I was talking to the monitor engineer for Seal years back (I was a grunt working the show so I could sit back stage) and he said that Seal likes his in ears to sound just like the CD (imagine having to match the sound of his Trevor's CDs in a live environment). Anyway to make it sound like the CD he compressed the hell out of the 2 buss and Seal loved it.

To each their own I guess.