trim plug in?

[Real Talk Ent.]

What is the best quality/transparent trim plug in?

[grrrayson]

Sonalksis FreeG.

[carllock]

Originally Posted by grrrayson

Sonalksis FreeG.

+1000

[djanthonyw]

Originally Posted by grrrayson

Sonalksis FreeG.

+10000

[payne104]

how does that compare to the stock digi trim plug?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by payne104

how does that compare to the stock digi trip plug?

If a trim plugin isn't transparent, it isn't a trim plugin.

[Real Talk Ent.]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

If a trim plugin isn't transparent, it isn't a trim plugin.

Thank you for that I have no experience with any trin plugs however I read in the "why most itb mixes don't sound as good as otb" thread today so I was looking into them.

Also at the risk of sounding dumb. How would I use the trim plug to make the itb mixer at +4 db {1.23 volts} like that thread suggested?

[dream]

Trim

[payne104]

Originally Posted by Real Talk Ent.

Thank you for that I have no experience with any trin plugs however I read in the "why most itb mixes don't sound as good as otb" thread today so I was looking into them.

Also at the risk of sounding dumb. How would I use the trim plug to make the itb mixer at +4 db {1.23 volts} like that thread suggested?

I use the trim plug to make sure I'm not sending too hot of a signal to the plug-ins. I only use it on tracks that were recorded fairly hot. I use the softube cl1b a lot and I can use the input VU to judge when it's right. Then if I need more gain, I use the gain control on the last plug in in the chain or on the automation.

Anyone use trim for anything else?

[payne104]

Are you guys using Sonalksis trim because you are using VST's or something? Why would you use that instead of the digi Trim if your using Pro Tools

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

If a trim plugin isn't transparent, it isn't a trim plugin.

thumbsup

[breakbeat-cafe]

Yeah Free G is great, every home should have one

[Real Talk Ent.]

Can someone please tell me how to use the trim plug {on insert one of every channel} to gain match it to an analog console {+4 db, 1.23} please i'd apreciate it.

[trmchenry]

Originally Posted by Real Talk Ent.

Can someone please tell me how to use the trim plug {on insert one of every channel} to gain match it to an analog console {+4 db, 1.23} please i'd apreciate it.

You're missing the point of that thread. The DACs of most audio interfaces sound better at a certain level. Most plugs are designed to play nice with hardware.

For example most Pro Tools hardware has their DAC calibrated to work best at -18 dB FS. Load up aforementioned FreeG plugin and put it in VU mode. Turn gain on your mic pre up or down until you hit -18 dB on the VU meter. The digital peak will actually be slightly higher but that's okay. RECORD!

Read the manual of your plugins, they will also specify a level in dB that their plugins are calibrated at. The newer Waves modeling plugs are all calibrated at -18 dB FS so you won't have to do anything to you audio for those plugs but say you run into a plug that's calibrated at -14 dB FS. Well... you need to insert a trim plug and turn your level up 4 dB before you hit the next plug.

This is called gain staging. This is the ultimate point of that thread. Learn how to properly gain stage your mixes.

[Lenzo]

Also at the risk of sounding dumb. How would I use the trim plug to make the itb mixer at +4 db {1.23 volts} like that thread suggested?

[/QUOTE]
I use trim on every channel...once I have automation on a track, if I find later in the mix that it is a little too high or low in the mix, I can adjust it up or down and my automation stays the same...much easier and faster than having to redo the automation for the track. I never noticed any problem with the digi trim....but I suppose it could affect the sound.
L.

P.S. Thanks for pointing me to the Sonalksis...cool little plug and the price is right.

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by Real Talk Ent.

Can someone please tell me how to use the trim plug {on insert one of every channel} to gain match it to an analog console {+4 db, 1.23} please i'd apreciate it.

You using pro tools ? If you are , put the trim plug on each audio track as the first plugin in the chain . Play the track at its loudest spot and turn the trim down till its , I think -18 . Once every audio track hits at -18 , start mixing . The point of all this is you don't want to run high levels into plugins , you don't want to clip or get near clipping anything in your whole mix . If everything is running hot it gets harsh sounding ITB .

[joeq]

Originally Posted by payne104

I use the trim plug to make sure I'm not sending too hot of a signal to the plug-ins. I only use it on tracks that were recorded fairly hot. Then if I need more gain, I use the gain control on the last plug in in the chain or on the automation.

Anyone use trim for anything else?

the PT trim plug has a ø button, which the PT mixer does not provide. A lot of plugs can flip phase, but the trim is a very low overhead plug, CPU-wise, so it's a good choice for tracks that have no plugs and all you want to do is flip them.

I use trims in the first slot to bring down the level of tracks recorded too hot. Not so much for adjusting during mixing. If my automation moves are OK, but the track needs to come down, I prefer to select the automation line and pull it down with the trim tool. Playing with levels in the plug chain can unbalance some careful gainstaging.

Like some others here, I would be astounded if any trim plug actually "sounded" better than another.

Blindfolded, I mean. tutt

[dualflip]

Transparent trim plug?????, come on... its basically a fader, it cant get more transparent than that!

[Real Talk Ent.]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Transparent trim plug?????, come on... its basically a fader, it cant get more transparent than that!

I already admited I never used one and didn't know how to use it so the sarcasm is unneeded however thank you too everyone that gave me usefully {and polite} replies

[psycho_monkey]

I use trim on every channel...once I have automation on a track, if I find later in the mix that it is a little too high or low in the mix, I can adjust it up or down and my automation stays the same...much easier and faster than having to redo the automation for the track. I never noticed any problem with the digi trim....but I suppose it could affect the sound.
L.

P.S. Thanks for pointing me to the Sonalksis...cool little plug and the price is right.[/QUOTE]

In pt, if you use the marquee tool at the end of the track, you can trim the whole automation track up and down very easily. Quicker than inserting a trim plugin!

[bwrecordings]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I use trim on every channel...once I have automation on a track, if I find later in the mix that it is a little too high or low in the mix, I

In pt, if you use the marquee tool at the end of the track, you can trim the whole automation track up and down very easily. Quicker than inserting a trim plugin![/QUOTE]


Wanna explain this marquee tool?

And how to do this?

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by payne104

I use the trim plug to make sure I'm not sending too hot of a signal to the plug-ins. I only use it on tracks that were recorded fairly hot. Then if I need more gain, I use the gain control on the last plug in in the chain or on the automation.

Anyone use trim for anything else?

bumping up the master bus so it peaks just below zero, if I'm not mastering it with any compression.

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I use trim on every channel...once I have automation on a track, if I find later in the mix that it is a little too high or low in the mix, I can adjust it up or down and my automation stays the same...much easier and faster than having to redo the automation for the track. I never noticed any problem with the digi trim....but I suppose it could affect the sound.
L.

P.S. Thanks for pointing me to the Sonalksis...cool little plug and the price is right.

In pt, if you use the marquee tool at the end of the track, you can trim the whole automation track up and down very easily. Quicker than inserting a trim plugin![/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bwrecordings

In pt, if you use the marquee tool at the end of the track, you can trim the whole automation track up and down very easily. Quicker than inserting a trim plugin!

Wanna explain this marquee tool?

And how to do this?[/QUOTE]

He means the trim tool.

You can't automate the trim tool though like you can a trim plugin.

You could also use trim automation.... or VCA's....

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

In pt, if you use the marquee tool at the end of the track, you can trim the whole automation track up and down very easily. Quicker than inserting a trim plugin!
He means the trim tool.

You can't automate the trim tool though like you can a trim plugin.

You could also use trim automation.... or VCA's....

Simply highlight the automation and drag it up and down with the trim tool.


In these screenshots the mouse pointer is missing. The PT trim tool which normally trims audio horizontally, now faces vertically and drags the automation line up and down.

This preserves all your automation moves but xdB higher or lower. There is no need to "redo" any automation. It even gives a readout of + and - and with the command key you can go in tenths of a db. You can select just the chorus or just a line and trim that. This also avoids possible gainstaging problems like hitting a compressor harder or softer.

So easy, I wonder what possesses people to add another level of plugs and another level of 'automation' to do the trimming? What happens when you want to trim the trims?

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Real Talk Ent.

I already admited I never used one and didn't know how to use it so the sarcasm is unneeded however thank you too everyone that gave me usefully {and polite} replies

Sorry if you misinterpreted my reply, i wasnt trying to be sarcastic

[grrrayson]

I like the FreeG in Pro Tools because it offers finer resolution than the Trim plug-in, appears as a vertical fader (which is nicer to automate and work with in general), and has two points to adjust volume (a knob and a fader) which is good for quick level A/B-ing. Also, it has metering and phase adjustment. Also, I've just been burned with Digi plug-ins doing stupid things too many times although I do like Pro Tools a lot and trust them not to mess up a simple trim plug-in.

I like having an additional volume fader to ride before the fader fader and sometimes before or after certain plugins.

[grrrayson]

Originally Posted by joeq

Simply highlight the automation and drag it up and down with the trim tool.


In these screenshots the mouse pointer is missing. The PT trim tool which normally trims audio horizontally, now faces vertically and drags the automation line up and down.

This preserves all your automation moves but xdB higher or lower. There is no need to "redo" any automation. It even gives a readout of + and - and with the command key you can go in tenths of a db. You can select just the chorus or just a line and trim that. This also avoids possible gainstaging problems like hitting a compressor harder or softer.

So easy, I wonder what possesses people to add another level of plugs and another level of 'automation' to do the trimming? What happens when you want to trim the trims?

It always messes with the beginning and end unless you trim right on an existing point as in the screenshots. It should create four new points and make the trim a vertical move at the in and out points but drags things out at an angle from the nearest pre-existing points (otherwise).

Also, if you do this to a whole track, you still have to go back and change the beginning to drag it down. Or did they change this?

This behaviour in Pro Tools has always annoyed me.

I generally find inserting a trim plug-in much faster. Also, I like to keep my automation at unity or a constant base level.

Also, the selector tool doesn't jump to automation points, so to trim automation and then undo it and redo so as to audition the trim it's difficult to manually get it perfectly the same each time. Or am I missing something here too?

Regards,

Grayson

[joeq]

Originally Posted by grrrayson

It always messes with the beginning and end unless you trim right on an existing point as in the screenshots. It should create four new points and make the trim a vertical move at the in and out points but drags things out at an angle from the nearest pre-existing points (otherwise).

Also, if you do this to a whole track, you still have to go back and change the beginning to drag it down. Or did they change this?

if you grab the 'straight line' after the end of your song - after the last dot - the point after the automation "ends" - you can grab the whole line of the whole song and move it without any bending at the beginning or end. Not sure how new this is.

If you are trimming just one section, you have to have a "bend" somewhere!

If you make a selection and drag up and down within it, new breakpoints will be created on the selection border and it will bend there. If you hold down the option key, you can suppress the creation of these breakpoints, and it will bend from the first breakpoints outside your selection.


You can separate the region at your selection and 'wiggle' the automation on either side of the selection. (Raise it up and put it back.) This creates two 'extra' automation points so that now the volume slides vertically on the border with no bends. There is probably a more elegant way to get those points, but this type of trimming is often the least useful, IMO as it can cause a jumpy sound.

you can also manually add two more breakpoints just inside the selection borders to finesse your 'bend'. Even no bending is bending, if you get my meaning... the part with changed volume has to merge back with the 'old' volume levels one way or the other.

Suppose you had a vocal track with complex automation on every word and phrase. Halfway through your mix, you decide to trim it all by inserting a trim plug. A little later, you realize the trimming was good except for the second chorus. How would you now trim the automation on JUST the chorus using a trim plug? Automate it?

Why have two levels of automation when one will do the job?

I generally find inserting a trim plug-in much faster. Also, I like to keep my automation at unity or a constant base level.

this makes no sense to me. What is fader automation there for? To go up and down!

If you put the trim plug before a compressor, you are messing with how the signal hits the threshold. The volume changes, but so does the sound. Saturation plugs are also affected by this kind of thing. If you put the trim plug after plug-ins, why bother? Why not just use the gain knob of the comp or EQ?

If you want anything other than a global volume change for the whole track for the whole song, it seems to me you are right back where you started.

Also, the selector tool doesn't jump to automation points, so to trim automation and then undo it and redo so as to audition the trim it's difficult to manually get it perfectly the same each time. Or am I missing something here too?

When you drag with the trim tool it reads out the absolute volume at the cursor point and it also reads out the + or - value in tenths of dB. You can go up .5 dB and if you don't like it go back down .5 dB and you are right back where you were. If I drag it up .5 dB and then say Undo, it goes back down .5 dB. Undo and redo work just like anywhere else in the program. I don't understand why it would be any harder to remember or undo a move with the trim tool than it is to remember or undo a change with a trim plug?

[Joram]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Transparent trim plug?????, come on... its basically a fader, it cant get more transparent than that!

Trim plugins are very handy when setting up a mix. I use the trim on every channel as a gainstage. Put all faders on 0 and level with the trim plugin. On an Icon D-control it's like using an anolog desk: quick and easy.

[Real Talk Ent.]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Sorry if you misinterpreted my reply, i wasnt trying to be sarcastic

Than I also apologize I'm just so used to people being rude snoby and disrespectful on here I sometimes take things wrong now.