Waves V-Studio, API Plugins, the right spice?

psychedelictrip · 12th October 2010

I have a Blue Blueberry microphone going through a Joe Meek 3Q. I realize it's not very high end but at times can deliver good rock vocals. I feel that there is something missing though. I'm looking for a new spice. Purchasing a new mic or a hardware preamp is out of the question at this time.

I should say colorization and character are good things to me. I'm not trying to record a symphony orchestra. I'm just looking to give my vocals, guitars(D-28, Classical, Jazz Bass, Strat)and virtual drums a nice edge. I'd define the sound as rock but not modern rock more closer to 60's rock).

I see that Waves has the API and V-Studio plugins on sale. For those who familiar with the plugins and perhaps my signal chain or there abouts would either of these plugins help me achieve a better sound compared to my ProTools stock plugins? I mean are they worth the money because they are THAT much better or are they're simply presets with pretty colors? Or is my signal chain too weak to really make much of a difference?

The trial editions are usually too short to really decide whether they're worth it. So any opinions or recommendations from those in the know are welcome.

mattg082 · 12th October 2010

I'm a fan of the API especially the compressor 2500. I find use for it on everything. The EQs are great but are colored in a nice way...I like them for exciting rock and techno kind of tracks. SSL I usually use the Master buss Compressor and sometimes the EQ. Some people get weird about the waves SSL EQ but you have to get into it for a bit to achieve what you want.

As far as the Vintage series stuff I love the VEQ3 EQ. Sounded terrific the other day with my acoustic DI into a great river, APi 2500 and the VEQ3. It really does the trick for string instruments for me or anything I want to sound natural and pretty with that flavor. I sometimes match the type of pre I'm using to the ITB style plug so results vary I suppose.

API if going by bundle is the best deal IMO.

SSL it's a good tool to have but can't say I ever pull it out first.

Vintage waves- EQ is my go to for strings, violins, acoustic guitars ect. and the V Comp isn't that bad...Still like the API 2500 it's great everywhere!

For the sound you want I say API!!! I have a 512c I use all the time

butterfly · 12th October 2010

..................yeah I have the neve bundle and ssl......neve def has more mojo and colour than say the renaissance bundle and so probably much more than stock digi stuff......reallly I would say you can't go wrong it's probably not that much cash outlay in the grand scheme of things....................do it.

psychedelictrip · 12th October 2010

Half a grand in the grand scheme of things for the V-Series. It's really tempting. If my sales(Sell things for a living) improve that may be the route I'll travel. If they improve a little more the API might be the thing to do. 0% financing makes the decision that much easier.

Room I record in sounds pretty good too compared with the other rooms in the house(you know 8 foot high ceilings/12x10 type rooms). This room is about 20 feet long. Ceiling height 6-9 feet and change. Maybe an acoustics expert would laugh but it's remarkably better than those box rooms.

That's why I'm talking about just spicing mic up with added clarity. I like to keep things tight as well.

thanks for the comments.

radiospace · 12th October 2010

These are some of my most-used, favorite plug-ins. (Specifically, the Waves API 2500 and the VEQ3, which are the real winners out of those two packages IMO). I wouldn't look to them to provide much "character", however. Compared to the effect of changing mics or using a different mic pre, I think they have minimal effect on the mojo of a track. If you want character, I think the Waves CLA classic compressor bundle (i.e. the 1176, LA2A and LA3A) is the best choice in terms of Waves plug-ins. Even if it isn't as effective as using the hardware, I do feel like I get three pretty specific effects on the sound with those 3 compressors (4, really, counting the Blue Stripe). I tend to use the API compressor when I want a cleaner compression that's punchy but not overtly colored. Typical for me is the Waves 1176 Blue Stripe on vocals and the 2500 on guitars.

You've got to demo them for yourself, though.

psychedelictrip · 14th October 2010

I think you're right I might have to try them 1st to really get a sense of what they can and cannot do.

I forgot all about that other bundle(compressor).

Surbitone · 14th October 2010

PSP Squad ClassiQex and ConsoleQ sound more Nevesque than the V-Series EQ's for sure - and the PreQursor sounds just as good (IMO better, but different) as the API EQ's. I've had a lot of time to work with all 3, hardware and the Squad bundle and have used all of them fairly extensively - I ended up keeping Squad, and still use it in almost every mix, I sold the waves. If anything, I'd get the API bundle, or if possible just the compressor on it's own and Squad. thumbsup If you really want glue and your working entirely ITB, check out Nebula.

analogjeff · 14th October 2010

to the OP... from experience i say the Waves V-series is a waste of money... go for the API and get a decent hardware compressor in my view... to my ear the V is sort of thick but in a pretty fake way...

psychedelictrip · 14th October 2010

I might just have to try out several things if the demos aren't too short. I was expecting Waves to run 20 minute demos but they let you try it for a week. I'm sure there are limitations. Hopefully none too obnoxious like some TV. snow sound fx every 10 seconds. For me it's plugging in and strumming my guitar and singing. If the sound in my head mysteriously enters my ears then that will certainly push me in the direction I want to head.

Gotta make sure I leave my guitar strap off when I'm playing. A few months ago I was singing into a microphone with headphones, strumming a guitar. I started to form a ground loop when the leather strips from my guitar strap touched my thigh giving me a shock.

If there are some nice sounds out there I gotta hear them and not be electrocuted in the process like the singer from the Yardbirds.

psychedelictrip · 14th October 2010

I think I'm gonna have to hear them all Jeff. I'd prefer a hardware everything and just a decent a/d converter. I just don't have the money. If I had the money and only enough I'd almost surely buy a microphone instead. Then again there are middle grounds on both ends. You can spend $10k on a mic and and it suits you about as effectively as chainmail golf sweaters. I'm not really a crooner so there's probably quite a few mics around $1000 or a bit more that would suit me. The same can be said of decent hardware "channels". Some of it can be overkill for some people. Myself included. I do love the sound of tubes though which does push the price. However beggars can't be choosers so I got to try and find a compromise to get the elusive undefined sound out of my head.

OceanMan · 14th October 2010

There is a ton to be gained from these over the stock pro tools plug ins. Especially when it comes to compression. The stock digi compressor especially is not worth anyone's time.

For compression, the API 2500 emulation is great... very versatile, usable on anything. The V Series is also great.

Heartfelt · 14th October 2010

I own 2 ThreeQ's and the only use I liked them on was for my POD in a live situation. I also have used Duende SSL and I just purchased Waves API.

My perspective is to suggest that you first work on your chain. You have an amazing mic. I wouldn't waste time with any semi pro or clone pres. I would grab a True Precision pre, a Daking Mic Pre One, a Speck pre, a DAV pre or something of their caliber. Having a single high quality channel will add more to your sound than any plugin or ITB method. I learned the hard way.

A solid pre will add a focus to your tracks that will add punch with optimized properly. The difference is huge!

If you are sold on plugs, the API literally freaked me out in a good way.

If you are sold on a neve-ish set of plugs, try the Stillwell stuff. It is silly good in that vein and dirt cheap. The 1973 EQ has a nice top boost ability and the Vibe EQ has serious thump.

mattg082 · 14th October 2010

+1 sQuad...great results on everything that needs to be touched up just right. I need to try it with vocals and a nice compressor. I use it all the time in post edit stuff.

Ernest Buckley · 14th October 2010

Yeah, I would go with the API plugs. The V series did not do anything for me. I auditioned the API, V Series and the SSL plugs all at once... I would get the API plugs first, then the SSL. As for compression, CLA hands down.

HOTC · 14th October 2010

API i would go with
maybe try some softube plugins they are rather good,or sonalksis i fine useful..but also like was said some of the stock digi plug ins are good..

mattg082 · 14th October 2010

The API 2500 compression is up there with the CLA stuff...Just it's API. Works on most but not my vocal go to but still very versatile for one comp on just about all. A few Favs

softube CL1b- Kick
CLA love it on vocals..usually my first pick.
Api 2500 drum buss,snare.
Softtube for my parellel techno stuff.
transient designer on the snare or URS saturation.
SSL WAVES master buss
VQ3 acoutics
API EQ rock guitars,synths

PSP Squad on post production and overall great eq.
Sonnox stuff great clean up clean EQ.

I could go on...:P

ect... good stuff

psychedelictrip · 14th October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

I own 2 ThreeQ's and the only use I liked them on was for my POD in a live situation. I also have used Duende SSL and I just purchased Waves API.

My perspective is to suggest that you first work on your chain. You have an amazing mic. I wouldn't waste time with any semi pro or clone pres. I would grab a True Precision pre,

That True Precision Pre is pretty interesting. Clarity(as I just read people describe it)is an attractive effect too. I mean I detest old string on my D-28. I love a new set of 80/20's. It's such a rich sound. To me that's Dreadnought clarity. Getting my sound in is pretty important. That money factor is an issue but $500 is pretty good. When I consider I am a minimalist, I'd unload my 3q if the True Precision is really really nice. Don't think 3Q's sell for much but I sell things very well.

Plugins will always be a factor unless I suddenly come into a lot of dough. Convolution reverb along is necessary because that oubliette in the basement had too much moaning and groaning

Thanks for pointing out that pre-amp. I'd like to research that more.

I will be trying out plugins because I have nothing to lose. I agree with signal chain improvements.

Lonnie5 · 14th October 2010

I've used both the 3Q and the Precision Pre. Believe me the True pre is a nice pre, but Its really not THAT much of an upgrade from the Joe Meek. Some other ways you can go is the Golden Age 73 pre (nice thick sound), thats goes for $300, and if your looking into a hardware compressor, look at an FMR Really Nice Compressor (very clean and goes for about $175), and if you want a more colored compressor you should look at the FMR PBC which goes for around $475. But I do own the API, SSL, and Vintage wave plugins, they are all great. I love the API 2500 as a drum buss compressor, the Vintage EQ's on Guitars, SSL 4K bus compressor on the mix, and the SSL Channel Strip on pretty much everything else. By the way, the CLA Classic Compressor pack is awesome too. I'll be picking that pack up soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychedelictrip

That True Precision Pre is pretty interesting. Clarity(as I just read people describe it)is an attractive effect too. I mean I detest old string on my D-28. I love a new set of 80/20's. It's such a rich sound. To me that's Dreadnought clarity. Getting my sound in is pretty important. That money factor is an issue but $500 is pretty good. When I consider I am a minimalist, I'd unload my 3q if the True Precision is really really nice. Don't think 3Q's sell for much but I sell things very well.

Plugins will always be a factor unless I suddenly come into a lot of dough. Convolution reverb along is necessary because that oubliette in the basement had too much moaning and groaning

Thanks for pointing out that pre-amp. I'd like to research that more.

I will be trying out plugins because I have nothing to lose. I agree with signal chain improvements.

echojulca · 14th October 2010

SSL and the CLA plug ins to my ears add the most character. The compressor sound great, the SSL master comp is great too, the EQ and the Channel have a lot of character.

Compared to the V series and the API, to me the API bundle is great as well if you want transparency, the V series stuff is awesome too, but to me you cant use it on everything.

I`d go for the SSL bundle for sure, for simulated character and versatility.

psychedelictrip · 14th October 2010

I remember having a few lower(they still hadn't hit the ground yet)end Focusrite pre's and thought 1 was a little better than the other. I do remember thinking they were very colored. I was surprised at how clean the 3Q was. It doesn't have that crystal clear sound though.

Always looking for rational buying a True Pre. wouldn't be the end of the world if I felt very confident I could unload it very fast if I had to. Why I feel very confident I can oversell my 3Q reducing the cost for any replacement. I hate clutter, love a straight path. I was even thinking the other day plucking notes
on my acoustic through a mic...Why do I even need that Strat. The fretboard is rough. My Martin feels like an old shoe but it doesn't stink lol

I've heard a lot of great things about FMR. Always like those type of companies that seem to shoot straight from the hip. Since I'm budgeting quite a bit I see a hardware compressor being perhaps a luxury at this point when I really need a nice plugin one for virtual drums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie5

I've used both the 3Q and the Precision Pre. Believe me the True pre is a nice pre, but Its really not THAT much of an upgrade from the Joe Meek. Some other ways you can go is the Golden Age 73 pre (nice thick sound), thats goes for $300, and if your looking into a hardware compressor, look at an FMR Really Nice Compressor (very clean and goes for about $175), and if you want a more colored compressor you should look at the FMR PBC which goes for around $475. But I do own the API, SSL, and Vintage wave plugins, they are all great. I love the API 2500 as a drum buss compressor, the Vintage EQ's on Guitars, SSL 4K bus compressor on the mix, and the SSL Channel Strip on pretty much everything else. By the way, the CLA Classic Compressor pack is awesome too. I'll be picking that pack up soon.

tomlee · 14th October 2010

i haven't followed waves pricing/products behaviour.

does a 40% off sale signify anything? like the NI Sales can?

jadiae · 21st October 2010

+2 sQuad

mattg082 · 21st October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadiae

+2 sQuad

I know...it just works on everything. I can get the sound I want on my post production stuff with preqursor in 20 seconds or less most of the time. I love squad!

Marando · 21st October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

Yeah, I would go with the API plugs. The V series did not do anything for me. I auditioned the API, V Series and the SSL plugs all at once... I would get the API plugs first, then the SSL. As for compression, CLA hands down.

100% the same for me! V-series I simply have no use for, but both SSL and API from Waves you will find in all my projects! And the CLA bundel from Waves is amazing!

Act fast, because they are on sale right now and I'm not sure how long it will last! (don't buy directly from Waves though, but try Plugin Discounts - The Best Prices on All of Your Plugin Related Needs for example!)

Clonkified · 21st October 2010

I like the V-Series EQs on vocals myself. I tried the PSP sQuad ones and promptly uninstalled them. Prefer the Waves bundle much more.

Glenn Bucci · 21st October 2010

I have the Waves SSL, and V Series right now. Since I also have their Ren package I have not jumped on the API, but I have heard them, and they sound great.

Waves SSL offers cleaner EQ's and a nice punchy compressor. But the EQ's have some punch to them as well.

Waves V Series are smoother sounding, offering a little more musical character. I use them all the time. Compressor is nice and useful but nothing that blows me away.

Waves API EQ's add thickness to your signal which is something the hardware version does as well. The compressor helps makes things like a drum bus have c h a r a c t e r and punch like no other plug in compressor that I have tried.

I don't care if they sound just like the hardware, they sound great, and they help mixes sound more of what I am looking for. No DSP card is needed either.

DaVinci · 21st October 2010

api is the single most useful plugin comp i've found for drums, bass, master.

Haven't used v series.

I think sQuad has all the other waves eq's beat, though.