$2,200 for Guitar Amps/Cabs for Recording...

[AdamJay]

the budget is $2,200.
and the need is versatility.

i need some in house amps and cabinets and i'm tracking everything from Jazz, Blues, Industrial Rock, Hard Rock, Indie, Punk.

nothing digital. i prefer to buy used, so used prices only please.

i was thinking this...
-Roland Jazz Chorus Combo JC-120 2x12" ($450 used)
-Vox AC30 C2 2x12" Reissue ($800 used)
-Mesa Boogie Mark IV Narrow Body 1x12" ($900-950 used)

any other recommendations?

[Phrygian]

That's already a nice well-rounded list for your budget. Might I suggest switching the Vox for a THD Bi-Valve? Should run ya about $800 US used and it's a super flexable amp that takes a shitload of different tubes without the need to rebias.

The Mark IV is a sweet choice, as is the Roland JC.

Best of luck, have fun!

[indie]

-Roland Jazz Chorus Combo JC-120 2x12"

Cool for Jazz, but it would be interesting to see if you could find a deluxe reverb reissue and replace the tubes...more on the wes montgomery tip of tone.

-Vox AC30 2x12" Reissue .....
DEFINITELY if it has Bulldog speakers...that's the real VOX tone.

How about a used Orange amp combo 1x12 instead of the Mesa?
The Mesa sounds one dimensional to me and I just saw 2 Rocker 30 orange amps for upper $900

Micah

[warhead]

What about the Randall MTS system? I have a combo system of theirs with several modules and love it! Michael Wagener loves his, he has the mack daddy setup...

War

[tubeman]

hard to say. with 2200, you could get a couple amps.

maybe a vox ac30 and a 1968-or-earlier twin reverb? or a later version silverface twin with jbls to give you an even cleaner machine that will work very nice with pedals (i'm not into the ultralinear versions though). the twin is also great for wurlis, synths, rhodes, farfisas, midi piano, even amped strings. the silverface with black trim from 1968 are usually the same circuit as the blackfaces, but much cheaper. i bet you could find one for 500-600 bucks.

the new orange amps sound very nice too.

if you want a tube/speaker breakup amp for guitar without pedals, i'd look at a supros, fender champs, fender princetons, etc. smaller amps can have bigger sounds in studio settings.

i would think that any of these amps would be studio "keepers." then as you add more, maybe start looking at older ampegs, hiwatts (reeves), marshalls.

[AdamJay]

Indie,
good call on the Orange Rocker 30. i'll look into it.

Phrygian Mode,
THD is a little out of budget considering i'd need a cabinet for it too.

[cdog]

I think the Roland Jazz Chorus is totally overrated, its not a toneful amp, although it is very clean and reasonably loud. Its kind of hard and muffled sounding at the same time, I can see how its a useful tone for Jazz or Reggae but its really not nearly as versatile as a Fender Twin, which can be just as clean with a lot warmer, fatter tone.

The Chinese Vox reissues are OK, but the HW series is the real deal. For recording, the HW series is the way to go.

The Mesa Mark IV is a great amp, very versatile, you could get by with only that if you don't need modern metal tones (in that case - Bogner Uber, or Mesa Recto, or Diesel)

I would get a low wattage amp also - the THD Univalve comes to mind.

I'm also a huge fan of the Peavey Classic series (1990-1992), or any vintage Marshall, Fender, or Hiwatt.

[AdamJay]

cdog,
how does this sound:

1968 Fender Twin Reverb 2x12" ($750 used, found a deal on a fugly one.)
Mesa Boogie Mark IV Narrow Body 1x12" ($900-950 used)
and keep the Roland JC-120 for $450

[Ziggy!!]

If you get the twin i'd lose the jc120... the fender will provide you with the cleans you need...

[dokushoka]

Sheesh, what happened to that pic of that sweet looking console that used to be your avatar?

Might I suggest a Peavey Classic or a Fender Deluxe? Also, any form a Champ for clean and overdriven sounds.

[meteor]

Lose the Roland - if you need a great clean sound go direct through a compressor and eq to taste - and then you can spend the money on the two flavors you need most and then save up for a 3rd if you can't quite afford it. Ideally - Vox AC30(El-84)/some sort of Fender Combo (6L6)/and some EL-34 type (Mesa/ Marshall/ Orange/ Bogner/ VHT...) with a closed back cabinet (a ripping 2x12 cab elevated off the floor can record extremely well) for the heavy stuff. If you are patient and buy used you might get fairly close to all 3 with your budget.

I'm a tone-snob so for me... Dr. Z Maz 38 Sr. (El-84), A Kendrick for the Fender Thing, and whatever decent EL-34 head (although i'm partial to old Orange amps) with a Matamp 2x12 cabinet...

Cheers,

[chrisgraff]

I thought the Chinese AC30 sounded pretty damn good....an I've got an original! I'd recommend the Head+cab though; the combos can be prone to rattling.

I heard a JCM 900 (modded by Voodoo amps) that sounded great for harder stuff.

THD 2x12 cabs are very versatile and have plenty of low end for hard stuff.



JCM 900 - $600
mod - $300
THD cab - $400
AC30 Head - $700

The vox would, of course, be better with the vox cab....but a budget's a budget. Spend the extra $200 on a tuner and a overdrive pedal.

[chetatkinsdiet]

I guess I've got a different approach than some/most here.
I'd definitely go for a Fender. Twin or Deluxe...whichever.
After that though, I'd look for a variety of different heads to go with something like one cab. I'd get a Marshall cab....greenbacks or vintage 30s. Pull two of the speakers and load in two of whichever you don't have. Does this make sense? So, you end up with a cab that has two Vintage 30s and two greenbacks. In the studio, that's the best of everything. So, let's see....I even dig the DRRI Fenders, and they can be had for around $500. So, take that, then another $500 for the Marshall cab. Then you've got some more cash to play with.....let's see.....Any old Sunn head from the late 60s. They're all around 50 watts, hand-wired and sound killer. I've bought many for $300 or so. Then, you can splurge on something louder if you need it. How bout an Ampeg V4? I think another $500 should get you in one. Take the other $500-600 and get a bunch of little tube amps...Supro, Valco, Airline, Alamo, Silvertone, etc.

You definitely don't need a Roland amp. And the Vox thing is questionable. I totally dig them, but I think for the $800-1000 that you'd spend on one, you can do something more with the money. The Vox is a great one amp to have, but since you're looking for multiples, I'd look to others first. Fill in with a Vox down the road.

later,
m

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

Sheesh, what happened to that pic of that sweet looking console that used to be your avatar?

i like to switch it up, and i think i'm gonna wait till i can take my ''own'' picture of it

Originally Posted by dokushoka

Might I suggest a Peavey Classic or a Fender Deluxe? Also, any form a Champ for clean and overdriven sounds.

why, you trying to sell me some more stuff?
---


keep the recommendations coming guys. lots of good food for thought from everyone. the concensus on the Fender Twin seems to be that its an way to go. and that with it, the need for the JC-120 is gone. So i'll go with the Fender, besides i think i found a pretty good deal mentioned above on one.

chetatkinsdiet,
i'm really looking into all you've said. I like the scenario you've laid out. thanks for replying.

[drundall]

JC120?
I was hoping we could bury those at the bottom of the ocean.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by drundall

JC120?
I was hoping we could bury those at the bottom of the ocean.

Amen...


The coolest head I know of is the new Mavenpeal 88. 2 switchable channels with different power tubes in each. 1 W to 88 W, the Sag control is awesome ... this thing does a lot of sounds very well at clean, gain and overdirve settings. Takes pedals well and likes a ton of cabs. We use a ported 2x12" Genz Benz with a Greenback on one side and a Blue on the other.

If you want independent Fender and Marshall in one, this is as close as you'll ever get. And it can do any pre/power tube combo so there are lots of options.

Think 2 Bi-Valves in one amp on super steroids ... and only 38 pounds!

[dokushoka]

why, you trying to sell me some more stuff?

NO WAY dude. Taking those to my grave! I've been modding my vibro champ and am making a special camp for my Classic.

[AdamJay]

alright, after a conversation with Doku that literally spanned 2 calendar years (har, har). i think i'm gonna focus on this:

'68 Fender Twin Reverb 2x12" Combo
Peavey Classic 50 2x12" Combo
Marshall JCM800 2x12" Combo


thanks again for everyone's input. i'll let you know how it goes.

[DHD]

Personally I think Fender Twins are too loud and have a steely harshness. I prefere deluxes. And personally love the Roland JC amps. Didn't The Cure use JC160's for those gorgeous clean tones in Lullaby. And they take yer solid state distortion pedals well.

For a bit of Fenderish cleans you could look into the non Recto Boogies which are wonderful amps that hve the mojo and are more reliable.

I would heartily recommend that you get a good 4x12 cab. The new Marshall aren't made of the same stuff as they used to be and don't sound as good. again I would recommend Mesa.

AC30's are great amps for clean, crunch and more. And all these can go through your 4x12 for more oomphness if needed. Maybe try a JMP preamp for the marshal sound.

Peace,
DHD

[meteor]

Originally Posted by lucey

...We use a ported 2x12" Genz Benz with a Greenback on one side and a Blue on the other...

I approve of that message. A very ugly box IMO but it sounds incredible and has the best low end of any cab i've ever heard.

cheers,

[tubeman]

if i were you, for twins, if possible, shy away master-volume versions (though i've heard much worse). and avoid all reissues for any fender. pre68/69 is best.

deluxes are nice, but i think are better for lots of breakup/slight breakup instead of nice clean tones. if twins are too loud, then maybe a bandmaster head would work. deluxe = 22 watts, bandmaster = 40 watts, twin = 85 watts.

i mean, if you want an all around versatile amp that

1 - you won't want to sell later
2 - is a workhorse
3- have the headroom to work with the more extreme settings of pedals (self-osciilators, filters, resonators, modulators, fuzzes, etc).
4 - works well for guitars, organs, synths, strings, even low volume bass
5 - to "warm up" midi

the twin would work well. getting that and a break up sounding amp, like a supro, silvertone, champ/princeton/deluxe/ac-30 would be a great start, imho.

[indie]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

alright, after a conversation with Doku that literally spanned 2 calendar years (har, har). i think i'm gonna focus on this:

'68 Fender Twin Reverb 2x12" Combo
Peavey Classic 50 2x12" Combo
Marshall JCM800 2x12" Combo


thanks again for everyone's input. i'll let you know how it goes.

Good call on the Twin and Marshall...but those Peavey Classics don't allow any overdrive pedal, except a tube screamer, to translate to acceptable tone. But that's me.
I like their clean sound...but the twin should cover that...but once again that's me.

[weatherbox]

Check out Dr Z amps. They are tremendously versatile tone machines and most impressively, sound great with just about every guitar and every pedal out there. Having the classics like a Deluxe Reverb and plexi is nice, but I like the idea of giving groups something a little different - they've (hopefully) already selected amps that cover their main need(s). I have had three Zs and currently have two. My Maz 18 has been used more than anything else over the years by myself and by bands I've recorded. It can sound like a Fender, like a Vox, and with the right drive pedal can get pretty nasty. One guy said it reminded him of his brother's Dumble! And let me stress again... they work with anything you plug into them! I have some great amps... old AC30, plexi, Sound City mkIII, vintage Fenders... but nothing matches the Zs as do-all workhorses.

So: I'd grab a Maz 18 head, a Matamp 2x12 with Celestion G12H30s, and then one more head, something a little heavier on the low end - Sound City, Mesa, etc.

[indie]

Yes..I agree about the Dr.z. I sold a Maz 38 sr. 2x12 combo for a Maz 18jr 1x12 combo -- great amps, 3-D tone. Definitely the fender/vox hybrid. Although, the Bad Cats see a lot of use for me.
But I think if AdamJay is running a commercial studio, he might be better off getting some of the "standard issue" amps for clients to feel comfortable with. The names of Vox and Marshall seem to make most bands happy...I think the Dr Z bests them in versatility and a lot of times, tone.

[slaves666]

Bogner Uberchall and a JCM 800....all you need...

[WeekendWanker]

I have a silver-face Vibro Champ that I use all the time. It's amazing how many different usable tones, ranging from warm cleans to it's about to explode distortion, you can get out of that little guy. I picked mine up for a bit over three hundred, so it won't take much out of your budget.

[AdamJay]

Just to give you guys an idea of what type of facility i'll be using these amps in:
I'm finishing the purchase of my first house over the next month. and i will be rennovating the 2 car garage that is seperate from the house, turning it into a 3 room recording facility (plus a small 1/2 bath).

It will be small, it will be cozy. But i'm putting alot of time into the acoustic design and construction so even though the entire building is only 20x18ft. it will sound as good as it can. It will also have natural light thanks to a skylight and a pre-existing small window. And enough height to get a good "room" sound on alot of sources.
John L Sayers has assisted in the layout:



The small room next to the control room will be the ISO booth. Here i'll do vocals and guitars. It is 9 ft. deep with a variable width of 4ft. to 5ft.

This particular facility will cater to local musicians (Indianapolis). Jazz and Blues ensembles (tracking up to 7 at a time), industrial projects (2-3 people), and small time local bands. It will be a place where a local group can do an EP in just a couple days, and not come out broke on the other side.

I'll mix through an AudioArts 8x 32/8 Console. With preamps from Phoenix, Trident, GT, and DAV. And your typical 57's, D112, 421's but also throw in some M160's, an AT4060, TC30k's, and a couple ShinyBox 23C ribbons.
i can do up to 26 simultaneous in/out through console/daw at 24bit/48khz. and 18 in/out @ 24/96.

There will be a nice gretsch kit in the live room, and a modest selection of latin percussion. If i'm lucky, this will be where my buddy stores his Rhodes Mk1 88 with original fender cabs.

I won't be operational till summer, but i'm trying to gauge the best amp selections now so that i can take the time to wait for the right used deals. Having familiar equipment will certainly help invite new clients in, but we all know that a great sound keeps them coming back.

[indie]

Nice! Good luck!

[AdamJay]

thanks for turning me onto the Dr. Z's
i think i'll stick with the TwinReverb/JCM800/PeaveyClassic combination to start with.
If things go well, or if i'm simply not happy with that by the end of the year... i'll take a long hard look at a Dr. Z.

the blues .mp3's on their site sound fantastic tonally.

[DrFrankencopter]

I'd suggest:

1. Fender Deluxe Reverb or Super Reverb....better sounding than Twin's (quieter), and generally cheaper too (for silverfaces anyways)

2. Vox AC-15 is a killer amp...better than the AC-30 top boost IMO. 18W Marshall is cool too.

3. Something in the Marshall family...JMP, or JCM 800. I'm not big fans of these amps, but it's a pretty common sound.

Modern 'recto' sounds are not covered in the above choices, but with the right pedal (maybe a SIB Varidrive) in front of a Marshall you could get pretty close.

A great sounding/versatile cab can be a great purchase too...maybe something that can be converted to and from open and closed back, and loaded with different types of speakers (something geared towards recording).

Cheers,

Kris