wow, the amount of unlikely stories in thsi thread is disappointing.
At least if people would tell true stories it would be much more interesting.
This one is totally true for sure, why do you think I or anyone else in this thread would lie about their stories? I find it rather insulting actually, so you had luck finding gear that works for you and your studio, I have nothing to say about that more than that sounds great!
What remains to be seen is what they do with the X32 digital live mixer. Their first "true" high-end launch, and first "real" foray into the market with the Midas technology post acquisition.
If that thing's feature set delivers at that price point and they manage to write some decent, read stable, drivers in the process, they may just yet change the opinion of me and a lot of "haters" like me who've been burned on the disposable quality and suspect performance of their historic line of gear. But like others, I do respect the fact that Uli and his products have their place, just not in my studio. Again, that could change if, and when, the X32 rolls out.
Wheels
__________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
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1937-2005
The thread title is How does Behringer survive?. My reply is 100% relevant to the question and any attempt to dismiss my point is evasion, as Behringer legal warbirds and their fanboys have been using these dismissal tactics in discussion forums for the last ten years. I will not submit to your manipulation tactics. If you don't like having the truth revealed then tough noogies, you can chew it and swallow as bitter as it tastes.
What you’ve introduced here is tantamount to a non-sequitur (type of logical fallacy) because it does NOT directly address the question. Go back to the title of this thread; reread it, and think about it for a second. The question is “how does Behringer survive?” The answer to that is very simple, and that horse has long been beaten to death; so, I’ll forego any redundancies in repeating my above statements.
Look, I’m not here to defend Beheringer’s legal or business practices. This is a simple matter of stating facts. No one is holding a gun to your head, insisting that you purchase Behringer products. You don’t like that company, and we all get it. So, don’t buy their products….end of story!!!
That said, they’re obviously doing just fine without your support, and in free market commerce that’s how it should be. They have the freedom to operate as a business and offer products to their client-base, and you have the freedom to give your money to different manufacturers. Thus, it’s not about defending or attacking Behringer for me. It’s a matter of being a grown up and understanding simple economics principles and how those economic principles play out in our society.
Whether you like it or not, Behringer exists because they offer a product at a price point that is appealing to consumers, and while I don’t like a lot of things sold on the open market, getting wrapped around the axel, so-to-speak, with every companies’ questionable business ethics would be an exercise in futility from a consumer standpoint.
What you’ve introduced here is tantamount to a non-sequitur (type of logical fallacy) because it does NOT directly address the question. Go back to the title of this thread; reread it, and think about it for a second. The question is “how does Behringer survive?” The answer to that is very simple, and that horse has long been beaten to death; so, I’ll forego any redundancies in repeating my above statements.
Look, I’m not here to defend Beheringer’s legal or business practices. This is a simple matter of stating facts. No one is holding a gun to your head, insisting that you purchase Behringer products. You don’t like that company, and we all get it. So, don’t buy their products….end of story!!!
That said, they’re obviously doing just fine without your support, and in free market commerce that’s how it should be. They have the freedom to operate as a business and offer products to their client-base, and you have the freedom to give your money to different manufacturers. Thus, it’s not about defending or attacking Behringer for me. It’s a matter of being a grown up and understanding simple economics principles and how those economic principles play out in our society.
Whether you like it or not, Behringer exists because they offer a product at a price point that is appealing to consumers, and while I don’t like a lot of things sold on the open market, getting wrapped around the axel, so-to-speak, with every companies’ questionable business ethics would be an exercise in futility from a consumer standpoint.
Chris
Whether you like it or not, my reply DOES directly address the question. I have heard the argument "no one is holding a gun to your head" too many times and that is another evasion to dismiss the truth you do not want the world to hear. The only reason I keep bringing it up is because you keep drawing blood trying to dismiss me, so don't even try to accuse me of browbeating.
I will continue to warn customers of Behringer and I will continue to rebuke manipulative efforts and the "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" attempts to dismiss naysayers who dare speak out the truth.
Futile as you would be led to believe, there are real economic consequences of Behringer's tactics and you possess drastically short term views. Economic 101 (I studied it in college, thank you very much) says as innovative designs surface a company must recoup its R&D investments. As Behringer continues to steal and clone other people's designs, fewer innovative designs will be brought to market out of discouragement that they will not see their investments recouped. That translates to lost jobs and stagnant economy.
And the next time your sorry unemployed posterior is out on the crowded streets with thousands more people competing for the same job you are looking for, you can thank your buddies at Behringer who brought low cost audio devices to the masses.
Is this any way unclear?
__________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. But lead a horse to liquor...
I have not read all the replies but regarding the question:
Behringer started out with GERMAN-made (!!) good units in the late 80s and/or early 90s!! They copied good dbx stuff and some more... so far so GOOD.
Later they realized that the Homerecording-market was the future !!
So they jumped on that wagon and started offering units which did what they were advertised for. They did sound OK, not very good or even great. They just WORKED!
The truth is: Most of us are not able to hear the difference in sound, especially not when you are listening to a finished record. You will not be able to tell how much better it could be if it had been recorded on highend stuff. You will also not hear a "Behringer sound" or whatever a few here believe to be able to hear. Only if somebody told you "One track has been recorded using BEHRINGER gear, the other track has been recorded with $$$$$$-gear.", you will perhaps be able to tell which one is which... And regarding live: In this application nobody hears a real difference as long as we are talking small venues, clubs or whatever. A big fat concert hall will have its highend equipment anyway!!
So bottom line: German-made Behringer-units were good stuff which can be bought for little bucks!! Buy them if you see em!
The China-Behringer stuff of the last 15-20 years is still simple stuff doing what it should do. It is not great but it WORKS. And let me tell you there are studios in Europe which did some really good sounds on Behringer stuff... Especially in the underground/Indie-Rock scene !! Stop dissing Behringer folks and record some new songs...
__________________ "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy..."
Almost all their stuff hums like crazy and have really "plastic" sound. I owned loooooong time ago bass vamp pro and that was like "OMG". Can't get ANY decent sound of it. Ear piercing high, boomed lows and no mids. I returned it next day. The stomp box tuner got faulty after second rehearsal and the BIG vocal monitors we bought to our rehearsal room was loud but only for playing music. Connecting mic to it was constant feedback at just 1/4 of volume and the vocals do not cut with the bands volume. We stuck with old, 150w German made vermonas which were far better than "500W Behringer".
__________________
"This is Gearslutz, it's all about paying for sh*t you can hardly hear, don't really need and few other people actually care about."
I've been given 4 or 5 pieces of Behringer over the years. I actually tried to use the stuff, but can't.
Someone gave me one of their single rackspace compressors, and I gave it to our bass player for live use and showed her how to loop it into her amp and adjust it. She gave it back to me a week later, LOL, so I swapped it out with a DBX 166 I had laying around. That instantly became part of her permanent chain. She knows virtually nothing about gear beyond her bass and amp.
A friend bought one of their 32x8 Eurodesks for his basement studio. His work sounded terrible. Nothing blended. After a few months, he replaced it with a Mackie 32.4. Instant, giant improvement. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear it myself.
Whether you like it or not, my reply DOES directly address the question. I have heard the argument "no one is holding a gun to your head" too many times and that is another evasion to dismiss the truth you do not want the world to hear. The only reason I keep bringing it up is because you keep drawing blood trying to dismiss me, so don't even try to accuse me of browbeating.
I will continue to warn customers of Behringer and I will continue to rebuke manipulative efforts and the "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" attempts to dismiss naysayers who dare speak out the truth.
Futile as you would be led to believe, there are real economic consequences of Behringer's tactics and you possess drastically short term views. Economic 101 (I studied it in college, thank you very much) says as innovative designs surface a company must recoup its R&D investments. As Behringer continues to steal and clone other people's designs, fewer innovative designs will be brought to market out of discouragement that they will not see their investments recouped. That translates to lost jobs and stagnant economy.
And the next time your sorry unemployed posterior is out on the crowded streets with thousands more people competing for the same job you are looking for, you can thank your buddies at Behringer who brought low cost audio devices to the masses.
Is this any way unclear?
Wow, as a taxpayer I feel very sorry that our education system has failed you, as basic reading comprehension is apparently your albatross. Yet, allow me to elucidate exactly how far off base you are. Take anyone of your above statements and directly plug it in as an answer to the OP’s original inquiry, which is “how does Behringer survive?” Then explain to us how your statements DIRECTLY answers that question. ...You see, the thing about soap boxes and high horses is that one tends to lose his/her perspective until being knocked off of them.
If you want to have a discussion about business ethics, fair trade, China’s manipulation of currency, NAFTA, etc. we can do that, but that’s an entirely different discussion altogether. Yet, none of that answers the question, “how does Behringer survive?” Supply and demand; product, pricing, and placement, and price point value answers that question directly .
Yes, I think your entire argument was murky and “unclear,” but I’m happy to clear it up for you.
Think of it this way. If you can find ANYONE who can honestly say that they've never used a piece of Behringer gear, I'll be impressed!
Peace
I HEAVEN'T!!
As far as I remember I haven't used/purchased any "B" gear (I'VE TOUCHED IT THOUGH at Guitar Center).
I was also thinking about getting a pair of their C-2 mics not that long ago. I thought it would be nice to have some cheap small condensers I could use for beginner kids' gigs... and not worry about the mics being destroyed!
As I read this thread though, I'm really questioning this "disposable gear" kind of thinking. Many people justify their purchases like that ("Hey, it's so cheap that I have nothing to lose") and then they feed the monster and let it grow...
Yes, I think your entire argument was murky and “unclear,” but I’m happy to clear it up for you.
Every point I raise to support my argument is met with a personal attack on my integrity.
I will not submit to ad hominen tactics in which every one of your replies fails to address or even acknowledge my revelation of Behringer's shady legal practices and you instead resort to classic manipulative tactics of "attack the attacker" that I have seen on too many behringer threads.
You suffer from confirmation bias in which you continue to exclude any and all opposing views to lend a false legitimacy to your own. You show no interest in a rational discussion regarding Behringer's shady legal tactics for fear of having them confirmed as facts to the world and instead use ad hominem tactics to destroy the integrity of the opposer.
I will continue to warn customers of Behringer and I will continue to rebuke manipulative efforts and the "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" attempts to dismiss naysayers who dare speak out the truth.
Speaking of the Wizard of Oz, legend has it the onset playback was done through a Behringer mixer.
Every point I raise to support my argument is met with a personal attack on my integrity.
I will not submit to ad hominen tactics in which every one of your replies fails to address or even acknowledge my revelation of Behringer's shady legal practices and you instead resort to classic manipulative tactics of "attack the attacker" that I have seen on too many behringer threads.
You suffer from confirmation bias in which you continue to exclude any and all opposing views to lend a false legitimacy to your own. You show no interest in a rational discussion regarding Behringer's shady legal tactics for fear of having them confirmed as facts to the world and instead use ad hominem tactics to destroy the integrity of the opposer.
It’s not a matter of views or personal attacks (i.e., no one is attacking you). You’re throwing up one straw man argument after another in hopes that something will stick, but nothing is. Look, if the question were, “why do you hate Behringer?” or “why do you think Behringer sucks?” then your statements would be 100% relevant. Yet, that wasn’t the question. The question simply was “how does Behringer survive,” and the answer to that is as obvious as the nose on my face.
The truth is that every single point you make about proprietary R&D, business ethics, etc. I agree with 100%. That’s all well and good, and while that’s an interesting and pertinent discussion to have, it does not directly answer the OP’s question. That’s all I’m saying, and there’s no reason to take any of that personally. If you do, that’s your choice, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Full disclosure: I own a few pieces of Beheringer gear and have had no problems with any of it. Some of the gear is 10 plus years old, and every pieced of their gear I own does what it’s supposed to do as advertised. However, I’m neither a big advocate or big supporter of Behringer. I buy some of their products as needed because they meet a particular need at a particular price point at a particular time; however, if they went out of business tomorrow I wouldn’t cry about it.
In other words, I don’t have stock (personal, emotional, nor financial--other than a few small pieces of their gear) in Behringer, and therefore, I don’t have a “dog in that fight” one way or the other. Also, I’m not an “unemployed fan boy,” as you assumed, and nothing I currently do in my profession is contingent at all on Behringer’s business practices. Trust me when I tell you my employer could own Behringer or any other company millions of times over….wink wink….
Anyway, we don’t disagree on your points in regards to some of Behringer’s past business practices; what we disagree on is simply whether your particular sticking points answer the question the OP posted, and I don’t see for the life of me how they do. After all, obviously Behringer has continued to thrive, despite some of the well-deserved bad publicity they’ve incurred over the years. Thus, answering the question “how does Behringer continue to survive” with answers like “because they practice poor business ethics and provide low quality products to their consumers” doesn’t make any sense in context.
When I first decided to get more serious about home recording (after dinking around with for a few years) I was faced with the same problem a lot of bedroom engineers are faced with - Budget.
Behringer was the answer to my problem at that time.
As a consumer chomping at the bit to get on with it I didn't care what my pro AE friends had to say, which was the typical arguments we've all endured.
But I was the one who had to pony up the investment, not them. I went with Behringer products, never had a problem with the gear and was able to immediately get started doing something I had so much fun with and loved - recording and mixing into the wee hours of the morning.
If Behringer are unethical in their business practices, oh well...there's nothing I can do about that and other people's karma is other peoples karma and has nothing to do with me; or any of their consumers for that matter.
Some say they would never contribute to a company practicing unethical business practices, yet they pay taxes to a government that kills in multiple countries almost indiscriminately. We purchase petro products from companies who destroy natural environments, and purchase a broad range of product from companies that turn out to be scheister's in the end anyway. Big business usually turns out to be bad for the public, we've learned that.
Buy what you can, have fun, worry about your own karma and live your life.
Behringer continues to survive by owning the niche of bottom dweller, where the only factor a purchaser considers is price.
Previously, Mackie, Alesis and Peavey at one time were considered the cost-effective means to get into recording/live sound and tended to cost less than more semi-pro or pro gear. however, their stuff worked, and held up very well.
Behringer realized if they could cut corners on costs (R&D, components, quality control), they could offer their products at a lower price than competitors. When they have almost an identical mixer to a competitor's at a lower price, an uneducated consumer flipping through Musician's Friend, Sam Ash, etc. will pick that and assume that it's the same quality as a unit that's more expensive. Who wouldn't want a Mackie mixer with all the features for 40% less?
I would guess that given their poor quality control history and high failure rate/return, Behringer has a high sales rate of first time customers, but probably not as many repeat customers. I bought a used Feedback exterminator for $50, tried to use it for our band for a month for live rehearsals, and promptly sold it on eBay for a loss. It doesn't work.
The only gear I know that does garner some respect is their EP series of power amps and the ADA8000 converter; although with the ADA8000, most live sound people carry a spare in case the unit goes south with the known "frying eggs" issue (google).
The lowest price is a niche market that Behringer won the race down to the bottom; hard to crawl your way out of that niche until someone else comes along that's even cheaper. That's how they survive.
__________________ nedorama Monkey Boy Studios
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This one is totally true for sure, why do you think I or anyone else in this thread would lie about their stories? I find it rather insulting actually, so you had luck finding gear that works for you and your studio, I have nothing to say about that more than that sounds great!
headphone amps or any other gear don't just burst into flames. what in them could be flamable in the first place? even a completely faulty power supply would blow a breaker before blowing up.
so it seems, shall we say, very highly unlikely that it happened exactly as described. although it may well be embellished for sake of having a good story, and I do totally agree that behringer gear (and other gear) can die.
The most dramatic death I've encountered was the power tube section of a 130 watt musicman head I was playing bass through in a live gig. awesome! but solid state headphone amps? they'll short out or get noisy or just not power up. fire? What exactly caught on fire?
hence my pessimism.
Anyhow, back on topic...
I know plenty of pro bassists who rely upon behringer gear for gigging and recording. power amps, amp modellers, bass amp heads, bass cabs, used by a notable percentage of regular pro gigging bassists. yes there are better options, but not without paying a LOT more.
Yes, it's quite unclear. You are posting derogatory opinions of how they do business as though it's unusual in the industry.
Peavey, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Tokai, just to name 5 off the top of my head who copied other brands to the TEE.
Behringer has made a couple of bigger mistakes along the way but is no more corrupt than many other companies which we've all respected and purchased from over the decades.
I know plenty of pro bassists who rely upon behringer gear for gigging and recording. power amps, amp modellers, bass amp heads, bass cabs, used by a notable percentage of regular pro gigging bassists. yes there are better options, but not without paying a LOT more
Very true. I use a Behringer bass amp supplied by the drummer when rehearsing with one of the bands I'm in so I don't have to haul my Ampeg rig all over creation. Very surprised at how solid it is, and how good it sounds.
I have their TRS patchbay, too. No noise issues, and affordable in the extreme.
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Just a humble home recordist...here to learn
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Yes, it's quite unclear. You are posting derogatory opinions of how they do business as though it's unusual in the industry.
Peavey, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Tokai, just to name 5 off the top of my head who copied other brands to the TEE.
Behringer has made a couple of bigger mistakes along the way but is no more corrupt than many other companies which we've all respected and purchased from over the decades.
That’s true. While I’m not defending unethical business practices, let’s get real. Companies like Samick and Cort (the largest manufactures of guitars and pianos in the world) have been sued at one point or the other by the very companies that have hired them to manufacture their guitars (Fender and Gibson). I don’t care if it’s a Korean, Chinese, Japanese, or Mexican made Strat, for example. When looking at almost any of them they all look the same at first glance, and they all boast similar features to that of an American Fender Strat. Now, to a discerning player the differences may be obvious as soon as you pick up that instrument, but the basic design, look, and even sound are similar in many cases. How many different LP, Strat, Tele, ES 335, and 6120 knockoffs are there anyway? So, if you’re going to bash Behringer for doing the EXACT same thing these other companies do, then in the sake of fairness and consistency, you have to go after all the others as well. That would be an impossible task in today’s world because so many Chinese manufacturers pop up on an almost daily basis that the average consumer can’t possibly keep up. And at least Behringer had the scruples to put their logo on their products, even if the products themselves looked like direct knockoffs of aforementioned brands (Mackie and Boss, for which I own many products of both too). That’s more than a lot of import vendors (The Top Guitars, for instance) can say. In fact, Behringer looks like a paragon of business ethics in comparison to some of those companies.
While many folks have valid experiences that have lead them to their conclusions, I do think there’s an irrational hatred for this company by some people, When it comes to the whole issue of defaming Behringer based on some of that company's past indiscretions, I think some of these criticisms becomes a matter largely of cherry picking and selective applied ethics. If you ever buy clothes at Wal-Mart you’re probably buying something that is a direct Chinese-made knockoff of something else. If you own one of the econo vehicles (kia, Hyundai, etc.) it’s almost certainly a knockoff of something else. And like I said, if you own a knockoff Strat, Tele, or LP then you’re also guilty of owning a product that is a knockoff of someone else’s original design. Les Paul’s estate nor Epiphone nor Gibson sees a dime of proprietary compensation whenever Rondo or some other online vendor sells one of their import versions. So, in all honesty, I don’t see what Behringer did in the Mackie and Boss cases as being much different than what virtually every import company does today.
That said, I wish it weren’t that way. I’d rather spend a little more for factories come back to the U.S., and I’d rather them invest more in R&D rather than simply spitting out copies of copies out of some Chinese manufacturing plant where employees are paid essentially slave wages. But this is the world we live in, and if you’re going to buy a computer, an iPod, an iPad, an interface, etc. then you have to accept that reality and hope that at some point it changes.
I've never owned anything by behringer that didn't work as advertised, and many items were competitive in sound quality wiht the much pricier items they were competing against at a much lower cost.
items I've personally chosen due to preferring the features and sound quality to any of the competition that didn't cost approximately 20 times (literally) the cost I paid:
- bass v-amp pro. someone above claimed it was poor. check talkbass.com to see the support of the bass v-amp pro and how bassists are falling in love with it more and more, myself included. would cost 3 times to get the line 6 competitor which I owned and find inferior in sound quality and reliability (mine line 6 bass pod pro died while sitting in rack in home studio). would cost 20 times to get axe fx with it's ampeg emulation, ONLY ampeg emulation (no other bass amps), which would possibly be better in sound quality.
- used to use a bcf2000. sold it finally due to it not having touch sensitive faders and found the motor noise too loud for use in audio (great for video though). Mine fell 7 feet onto concrete upside down when moving house several years ago. It worked perfectly after that and is likely still working perfectly in the new owner's happy hands. Excellent product and emulation capability, very powerful and useful, would cost 4 times to get something similar (and imho superior) from the competition.
- own 2 composer pros. excellent neutral vca compressors as long as you follow two well known rules of thumb: only used fully balanced ins and outs (into other fully balanced gear) and keep the "limiter" off completely since it's just a diode clipping circuit. If you follow those rules you'll find that some of what the behringer can do is sonically superior to a dbx 166... the behringer circuit is more similar to a drawmer dl221 or 241 (which I also own) compressor than a dbx model and it works similarly. If a newbie bass player can't use a complex fully studio oriented compressor then it's not a surprise. I doubt that the bassist referred to in someone's earlier post would have much luck with an 1176 either... would that make the 1176 inferior to the dbx 166 you praised? nothing wrong with 166 either, but your analogy was unscientific and therefore invalid.
and I've owned/used other berry gear with again full success (the bdi21 is an AMAZING bass di... quite exceptional really and many bassists choose it over competing products.. and it costs $30).
By comparison, I own a dod 6 channel rackmount headphone amp which sucks with nasty hum problems. I would prefer to get the behringer model which I tried and found to sound quite superior.
And for those who don't know me on this forum yet, I'm not a noobie and I earn much of my family-supporting income using this gear and own some very nice gear mixed with everything down to cheap behringer gear. I've spent many years buying and selling gear to get the collection I want. I have high end where it is superior to low end. Where it isn't, I have low end. There are some situations where high end is only superior in build quality and longevity, and since I take decent care of my gear I'm not worried about that particularly.
Examples of products I've owned that died spontaneously or ended up with other issues (none of which are behringer gear): line 6 pod xt live, line 6 bass pod pro, lexicon mpx 200, gap pre73, tascam mixer (large 24 channel model), and much much more.
I would be surprised if most engineers could decide which sound quality they liked better between certain behringer products and the much pricier competitor it's copying. Not items that have tone of their own (like the v-amp which sound different from line 6 or avid eleven, all of which I've either owned or still own), but more like the mic pres, converters, mixers, compressors even, some of the guitar pedals, bass cabs, power amps, some of the guitar amps...
don't forget behringer is bugera guitar amps as well, quite a well respected brand as long as you avoid the cheapest models.
I’d rather spend a little more for factories come back to the U.S., and I’d rather them invest more in R&D rather than simply spitting out copies of copies out of some Chinese manufacturing plant where employees are paid essentially slave wages.
Guess what? You would have to spend much more than "a little more" if your wishes came true. It would be shockingly more.
In China, average hourly compensation costs were only $1.36 in 2008. What are US factory workers paid in comparison? 33.26 on average in 2009. Think about how that would translate into the price we pay for merchandise.
The current manufacturing situation is just a result of customer demand for low cost as their first priority. Now that we're here I don't see things changing. When China becomes too expensive, we'll just see the manufacturing moved to a different nation. Look at Japan's history....
__________________ If you suck, it's not because you don't have analog gear, it's because you suck. Dave Pensado
Very true. I use a Behringer bass amp supplied by the drummer when rehearsing with one of the bands I'm in so I don't have to haul my Ampeg rig all over creation. Very surprised at how solid it is, and how good it sounds.
I have their TRS patchbay, too. No noise issues, and affordable in the extreme.
cheers! same here for rehearsing.
And by the way folks, I'm not "pro behringer" or anything, just not con either.
I accept them and embrace them for what they offer me: affordable products that offer similar or in some cases identical features to pricey models. Behringer gear can be doa. any decent behringer shop will exchange it right away for a working model if that happens. Some of their gear actually sounds better than any competition until you get into gear that is 5, 10 or even 20 times the price. They have some less than ideal gear too, but none of it is crap (aside from maybe their little table top quarter rack and project-box-based units which have some design flaws but still do something useful for the right customer).
I'd rather mix on behringer studio monitors than ns10s. I'd rather play and record bass through a bass v-amp pro than through any peavey, marshall, GK, Trace Elliot, or several other bass amps (I'm more of an ampeg and SWR guy personally, both of which my bass v-amp pro does better than any other bass amp modeller around, to my ears and fingers). I'd rather use a behringer b2-pro condensor mic than several specific models from mxl or apex, both of which are renown for cheap but great mics.
If you can't get a good useful money making sound from a behringer product then you're doing something wrong. This is true of most products in fact. Behringer is just like the rest, perfectly usable.
That's pretty funny that Peavey is being lumped in with the B word.
Although those of us that grew up with Peavey may wryly (and mostly correctly) associate them with "cheap" or "readily available", there really is no comparison.
Peavey spent a LOT of money on R&D, and there are products and concepts they invented that are now being used everywhere. For example, their team of engineers came up with the powerful media matrix concept, as well as advances in very tiny but very powerful digital amplifiers.
To give you a hint about what I am talking about, Peavey used to have an engineer's office in Dallas. A small rented space where brilliant minds came up with some pretty advanced products. At some point, Peavey decided to close that particular office, Crown got wind of it, and they swept in and hired the entire staff, no questions asked, and took over the lease in that office, in order to keep that team working together in an uninterrupted fashion.
The lesson is, some of Peavey's R&D is so valuable that other pro audio companies are just waiting to snatch it up. Also, most of the Peavey stuff was designed and built in the USA.
There is really no universe in which a comparison can be made to the thieves at Behringer.
And if you think for a minute that ANY of their power amplifiers are "decent", and should be exempt from ridicule, then you should look at one on a test bench with a scope, and you may be in for a very unpleasant surprise indeed.
I am not a Behringer lover as well.
But they have some good products.
E.G. a precise copy of the Ibanez tube-screamer which I tested side by side.
And to my ear it was so close that you could not tell the difference.
Ok the plastic pedal is not made for live use but for home use....WOW
The ADA 8000 is a RME rip off which is altered.
I understand the DIY freaks which take Behringer gear and they take out all the flaws and they end up with a few 100$ usable units.
I think the business idea is not bad but if they want to become the IKEA of the Audio Industry they should take care for more own inventions and taking care for higher QC- such as A+H from GB is doing.
I mean people would love it if they do not have to bring it back after a few weeks for repairing.
I would buy such a gear even if it is 100 or 200$ more expensive to get a better build quality.
The B company has some products which work.
But the majority of their line is crap.
If I would walk in their shoes this would be the first thing I would change- a minimum of quality parts and the users would be more happy and satisfied.
We were talking about Behringer the other day and I forgot some important points that I think were left out on how we ended up here.
1 tight if not the tightest MAP meant it didn't sell because you could cut a deal but because you had it in stock! MA and PA were selling it against GC because they couldn't be undercut!
2. One stop shopping so a dealer could by almost everything they needed on one credit line and get free freight!
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I have had worse days, but hey I've been on fire!
I feel like I should make the pissed smiley my Avitar
Yes, it's quite unclear. You are posting derogatory opinions of how they do business as though it's unusual in the industry.
Peavey, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Tokai, just to name 5 off the top of my head who copied other brands to the TEE.
Behringer has made a couple of bigger mistakes along the way but is no more corrupt than many other companies which we've all respected and purchased from over the decades.
Right..
People and companies STEAL ideas, circuits ect all the time..
Ever look at tube compressor schematics from the 60's? They are almost EXACT copies...
The SMART guys do NOT get a patent, they protect it in BETTER ways, I can think of several examples...
How about the little stomp boxes, NOT a good analogy but also VERY similar..
Most Gear Man. do NOT make their OWN chips, TOO Much $$$$$, Plus the IC Man. want to SELL their chips....TO ANYONE....
It's only a hand full of components/circuits people even bother with protecting...
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nedorama
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