Do I need a Lexicon 480 anymore?

[HonkyTonk]

I have desired a Lex 480 as main reverb for some years, have been my wishdream. I did get a lex 300 but not enough money for the 480.
Would be interesting to have some opinions on investing in a lex 480 today.
Has this type of expensive hardware reverb "spent" it`s life?
Better investing in reverbs like altiverb etc.?

I track analog into PT.

Marry Xmas!

Honkytonk

[bpatural]

personally i really like a lot of the software reverbs (reverb one, altiverb, ren. reverb)...lots of different selections and a huge amount of power...easily recallable as well...on the other hand as an investment, no one will be impressed at seeing another plugin in your folder which will need updates forever. the 480 is still a nice reverb, used on thousands of classic and modern records...also everyone loves the cool white 80s interface.
-brian

[Jan Folkson]

I've used every plug in reverb out there and not one of them hold a candle to my 480. While some of the convolution reverbs are very realistic they don't add the glue that the 480 does.

[Charles Dye]

Originally Posted by bpatural

no one will be impressed at seeing another plugin in your folder

Actually, with TC + Eventide making the exact verbs they got in boxes in plugz, (+ convolution verbs surpassing boxes in certain aspects) I think the daze of box verbs over plugz are coming to an end.

But in response to the original question, this is not to say the 480 ain't a great sonding box + an asset to your rack. Should you invest in one? I wouldn't, but what do you expect?

I'm a plugslut.


Merry Plugzmas!

[theother]

I don't think a 480L is a must anymore. There are nice alternatives out there. I like the TC reverbs and all the convultion reverbs (made my own ones from the old AMS, 224X, EMT boxes).
The UAD-1 EMT and Anwida reverbs are very nice too.

The 2016 VST don't cut it for me. I have the hardware (Princeton) and it sounds better.

That being said I would not work without the 480L. But that's a personal thing.

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by Charles Dye

Actually, with TC + Eventide making the exact verbs they got in boxes in plugz, (+ convolution verbs surpassing boxes in certain aspects) I think the daze of box verbs over plugz are coming to an end.

Eventide verbs never have been that great

TC are clever. They are selling their 2nd league verbs as plugins, not their first grade verbs.

Don´t ever think you´re buying an Orville or a TC 6000 when you´re buying those plugs!!!

However - IF Lexicon, TC & Eventide are going to release their BIG BOYS as plugins i would be the first one to buy them & a big D CONTROL to edit them

Recalling my 960 & Orville presets for every session is PITA !

[theother]

Originally Posted by Shaman

TC are clever. They are selling their 2nd league verbs as plugins, not their first grade verbs.

Don´t ever think you´re buying an Orville or a TC 6000 when you´re buying those plugs!!!

However - IF Lexicon, TC & Eventide are going to release their BIG BOYS as plugins i would be the first one to buy them & a big D CONTROL to edit them

Recalling my 960 & Orville presets for every session is PITA !

I don't know why you think the VSS3 stereo source reverb, the NonLin2 stereo effects reverb or the DVR2 Digital Vintage reverb that I have for my TC Powercore MkII would be 2nd league??



They sound exactly the same as the TC6000 and I don't need surround reverbs.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by HonkyTonk

Better investing in reverbs like altiverb etc.?


Honkytonk

My personal opinion is you need both.


I agree with Jan, the 480L has a certain glue that no other reverb has.


Its a sound that always comes up in a mix.


This from a hardware/outboard effect slut.

[andreªs]

I tried quite alot of the 480 impulse responses around - they sound ok, but IMHO not like the real thing. Like said before, it's that certain glue.

But hey, someone once called me a lexislut...

[s-boogie]

i think plug-in reverbs sound GOOD...but they are still inside the box-

so the result is similar to all ITB MIXES : a litttle lack of width and depth.

you can do good without outboard reverbs,but you still get more harmonic

results with outboard verbs during analog mixes.IMO.

so as an answer to the original question :

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE AN 480L , you still need it.

IF YOU DON`T HAVE ONE....it should not be on your wish-list if you mix all digital.

i use my pcm 91, my 2 pcm 80 (with cards) and my pcm 60 on the regular.

it really depends on your setup and the way you want to work!

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by theother

I don't know why you think the VSS3 stereo source reverb, the NonLin2 stereo effects reverb or the DVR2 Digital Vintage reverb that I have for my TC Powercore MkII would be 2nd league??



They sound exactly the same as the TC6000 and I don't need surround reverbs.

Right...VSS4 I call first league ( not to speak of the better TC 6000 mastering limiter algorithms ), which is still not available as a plugin

Originally Posted by andreªs

But hey, someone once called me a lexislut...

[Henchman]

I've just strted remixing some stuff of my own. I had previously used the TC6000 in our studio, which is now sold.
I am getting as good results, using the UAD plate verb.

BTW, anyone have an impulse for the AMS nonlin patch?

[bpatural]

I'd love to find a set of ams impulses if anyone has them...something about that box on drums that's really fake sounding soloed but creates a wonderful spacial effect when in the mix.
-brian

[bing81]

Originally Posted by bpatural

I'd love to find a set of ams impulses if anyone has them...something about that box on drums that's really fake sounding soloed but creates a wonderful spacial effect when in the mix.
-brian

Add me to that request ... though globally, I'm always on the lookout for any decent/interesting impulses. I see/hear some big names raving about IR reverbs, TL Space, Altiverb and the like. Very useful, but I've yet to get (or find?) the kind of more organic sound I'm getting from my Lex 300.

So .. Impulse exchange forum anyone?

[theother]

Originally Posted by bing81

So .. Impulse exchange forum anyone?

http://noisevault.com/index.php?opti...tory&Itemid=29

[Max headroom]

Originally Posted by Shaman

Right...VSS4 I call first league ( not to speak of the better TC 6000 mastering limiter algorithms ), which is still not available as a plugin

You are right about VSS 4 ..... it is a better algorthm , but MD5 is not better algorithm AFAIK it is the same algorithm but 5 band instead of 3 band in MD3 which is released for powercore ..... Brickwall is better .....


Cheers

[GearGuy]

Originally Posted by Max headroom

You are right about VSS 4 ..... it is a better algorthm , but MD5 is not better algorithm AFAIK it is the same algorithm but 5 band instead of 3 band in MD3 which is released for powercore ..... Brickwall is better .....


Cheers

And it goes on and on... System 6000 has Brickwall2 not the Brickwall that is part of the MD# masterning package for PowerCore. Shaman is correct that TC is generally not planning to release their top shelf stuff for the PowerCore. VSS3 is from the M3000, which while it is a nice reverb box, is unchanged since 1998... But NonLin and DVR2 are indeed new programs that are "top shelf"... and DVR2 is very wonderful, on of my favs. I've not purchased these for the PowerCore yet since I own the Reverb4000, which is a stereo version of the Reverb/System 6000.

For what it worth and to put the banter to rest, what you get for stereo algorithms with the TC 4000/6000 is VSS3, VSS4, VSS4TS, DVR2, NonLin2, Reverb4 (quite nice also) Ambiator, and some extra legacy algorithms in the 6000 only. For surround there is VSS3SR, VSS3M4, VSS5.1 Source, VSS6.1 and Reflector 6 available with the 6000.

The Powercore rocks, I have 3 of them... but there is still a time and a place for hardware IMHO. And I can save/control/edit my hardware Reverb4000 via USB so it integrates easily into my DAW mixing set-up.

[TanTan]

Hi , i took thethrillfactor advice a while ago and bought a 480L (have waited long enough to find one for a good price) and couldn't be happier , I'm also using Roland R-880 , Kurzweil Rumour and convolutions , the 480L just gives to a mix that big creamy depth no other unit i personally worked with gave , there are tons of great sounding plugin and hardware verbs but i don't think any of them is really giving that overall extra value the 480L give (heaven't worked with TC6000 or 960L yet)

[Shaman]

Comparing the strategys of the other big outboard fx companys like TC and eventide it would be a logical step for lexicon to release the 224 XL as a plug in....maybe also the 480

[mixer]

na..absolutley you don't need it...how about selling cheap to me.?

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by Shaman

Comparing the strategys of the other big outboard fx companys like TC and eventide it would be a logical step for lexicon to release the 224 XL as a plug in....maybe also the 480

i don't think you can get the sound 480L by converting it's algo's to a plugin , i think it's a too massive algo's and the sound of the whole reverb system , including it's analog stage will be very different , there was a plugin with adtional pci card that Lexicon did i think the name was NuVerb but i'm not sure that contains the 300L programs which has a few of the 480L algo's like random hall , and some more

[Shaman]

The 480 algorithm is 20 years old. Remember the chips from that time and capacity were very limited.

I dare to say that the 480 Lexichip algorithm from 1985 would easily suit into 2-3 chips of an HD process card.

It´s not the capacity...it´s the will.

Many people out there are using the 480 with AES card in their Pro Tools and it still sounds great. Don´t know a reason why a plugin version should sound worse.

Sony´s EQ´s / dynamics for examplesound the same in PT like in the Oxford console.

DSP is all the same. What matters is the algorithm.
Same with people

I´m shure that a well made lexicon 480 plugin for PT HD at a pricing point of about 2 - 3.000 USD would be a huge success

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by Shaman

The 480 algorithm is 20 years old. Remember the chips from that time and capacity were very limited.

I dare to say that the 480 Lexichip algorithm from 1985 would easily suit into 2-3 chips of an HD process card.

It´s not the capacity...it´s the will.

Quantec did it with their Yardstick , the same algorythm on a motorola chip using much better converters ,and people who knows both that prefer the original , and again , part of the 480L algorythms has been released on a pluggin platform ,
i don't think it was THAT succesful
you should ask thethrillfactor about it .

Originally Posted by Shaman

Many people out there are using the 480 with AES card in their Pro Tools and it still sounds great. Don´t know a reason why a plugin version should sound worse.

and almost all of them prefer to use the 480L analog i\o and back to PT for a more 3d sound (and the same goes with Eventide)

Originally Posted by Shaman

DSP is all the same. What matters is the algorithm.
Same with people

I´m shure that a well made lexicon 480 plugin for PT HD at a pricing point of about 2 - 3.000 USD would be a huge success

not only the algoryth , it's the A\D D\A and the analog buffers also , remember that these converters was built to convert the 480L algorythm

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by Shaman

The 480 algorithm is 20 years old. Remember the chips from that time and capacity were very limited.

I dare to say that the 480 Lexichip algorithm from 1985 would easily suit into 2-3 chips of an HD process card.

It´s not the capacity...it´s the will.

Many people out there are using the 480 with AES card in their Pro Tools and it still sounds great. Don´t know a reason why a plugin version should sound worse.

Sony´s EQ´s / dynamics for examplesound the same in PT like in the Oxford console.

DSP is all the same. What matters is the algorithm.
Same with people

I´m shure that a well made lexicon 480 plugin for PT HD at a pricing point of about 2 - 3.000 USD would be a huge success

one last thing , i realy don't like the PT converters .

[theother]

The 480L is a very strange design. Discrete processing (not sure this is the right term) etc. A long time before off the shelf DSP processor were used.

Lexicon already sort of ported the 480L to a plugin. They just sell you their own PC in a 19" rack and it's called 960L.
If you look into a 960 you will see it's an ordinary PC with HD, CD-ROM and expansion slots were the DSP and converters sit.

In my opinion they failed miserably. It doesn't capture the sound of the 480 at all.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by theother

If you look into a 960 you will see it's an ordinary PC with HD, CD-ROM and expansion slots were the DSP and converters sit.

That's exactly what the TC6000 is. Except no harddrive.

[theother]

Originally Posted by Henchman

That's exactly what the TC6000 is. Except no harddrive.

And that's why it might be easier to port them over to PC/Mac plugins.

[parky]

Originally Posted by theother

And that's why it might be easier to port them over to PC/Mac plugins.

I think that LEX, EVENTIDE and TC should all bring out a PCI versions of their plugz (like the UAD-1 / powercore) but with the best algo's and priced accordingly so you'd get a pro version or an LE version etc. Then we'd have total recall ITB mix, with control and automation, everyone could then share their own flavour of presets etc via online forums. Plus the manufacturer's themselves wouldn't be so worried about piracy coz you'd need the card (like a big dongle) for the software to work. with no converters, less physical bits etc etc cost could come down, everyone wins.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by theother

If you look into a 960 you will see it's an ordinary PC with HD, CD-ROM and expansion slots were the DSP and converters sit.

In my opinion they failed miserably. It doesn't capture the sound of the 480 at all.

Was it supposed to? Or were they looking to improve upon the design, which, IMO, is what they did. This is the first I've ever heard from anyone that the 960 "failed" as a reverb design.

[theother]

Originally Posted by elambo

Was it supposed to? Or were they looking to improve upon the design, which, IMO, is what they did. This is the first I've ever heard from anyone that the 960 "failed" as a reverb design.

I bought the 960L once and spend a lot of money. Believe me, I wanted it to sound good.

To me it misses the big, lush sound the 480L had. In the end I sold it and bought a 480L again. And it's not just the converters of the 480L. Even when I run both digital the 480L sounds way better to me. The 960L (especially the Plates which I use most of the time) sounded very flat and 2-dimensional to me.

I hated every thing about it. ....well I liked the colour-LARC.