Michael Bublé - Autotuned?
flamenco1
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#1
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #1
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Michael Bublé - Autotuned?

#2
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #2
Either he's absolutely perfect, or rediculously autotuned, but I've always noticed that with him.
#3
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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satellitedog's Avatar
 

I think it's just excellent controll of his voice. Not even the pitch, but the evenness of volume and great timing across his range. It's a job done right.

Musicians and singers are supposed to be very good at what they do, otherwise it would make no sense to put them on public display. :-)

Jazz singers usually enjoy a solid vocal training.
#4
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #4
There's autotune/melodyne all over the recent record(s) - it's been discussed before, search for the thread.
#5
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Dog_Chao_Chao's Avatar
 

Michael Bublé - Autotuned?

I also notice a lot of deessing. Even in it's first work. " I have the world on a thhhhhstring" corny stuff
#6
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #6
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rhythmic5's Avatar
 

that 'havent met you yet' track sounds like there's auto tune all over it... and i dont know why since he sounds like a great singer
#7
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic5 View Post
that 'havent met you yet' track sounds like there's auto tune all over it... and i dont know why since he sounds like a great singer
Yeah they have definitely used autotune on that track. And i agree why should they use it on singers that apparently are really good singers
#8
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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sedohr's Avatar
 

I guess the producers consider the hard tuned sound more professional sounding. Which is of course absurd.

Many believe that the modern audience is so used to mathematically correct time and tune that normal good singing is too sloppy in their ears.

That has got to be the reason they're tuning Bublé so much.

Kalli
#9
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Barish's Avatar
 

It's because the ordinary listeners' ears are so tuned to hearing the bombardment of autotuned music, even if you were a great singer, if you didn't get yourself autotuned then the majority of the ordinary listeners would perceive you as not so great at all. The new generation is not used to hearing human imperfections in recordings.

B.
#10
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

There is a time and a place for autotune... but.........
#11
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #11
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Autotune should be used to correct mistakes, not to turn something into a mistake.
#12
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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jayfield's Avatar
 

Mike Bubbles is from our home town. Took my wife to the concert 2 years ago. Phenomenal show, shmokin band, pitch was spot on, fabulous vocal control. Sound was almost hi-fi for an arena. I left feeling it was one of the most entertaining concerts I had seen.
Last month he came again. Now I'm don't mean to be disrespectful here to the Boobster, but I am still confused as to what happened. Right outta the gate his pitch was all over the place. I wondered if perhaps he had partied a bit too hard the night before, being in his home town and selling out 2 shows. It never got better. In fact if my wife wasn't groovin the vibe so much I would have gladly left. Did not work for the Jayburger at all. I called some friends in town who have worked with him as I just couldn't believe the contrast in the 2 shows. Truthfully, the first was a 10+ the second was barely a 2. Still confused as to what the heck was going on. Perhaps autune was involved 2 years back. I never thought of that at the time. Musically, that first show was truly astounding!
flamenco1
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#13
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #13
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Thread Starter
It surprises me on a live performance I have to say. Will they be using an eventide to do it in real time?
#14
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #14
God , EVERYTHING is tuned these days, except for Alicia Keyes and she needs to be, if you're hearing it, whoever did it did a
lousy job
#15
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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SynthLine09's Avatar
 

This sounds good to me, thats all that I'm really concerned with!
#16
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #16
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There is no autotune on this clip. A couple of audio glitches but no autotune. Peoples is listening for stuff that aint there.
#17
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #17
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Steab's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
God , EVERYTHING is tuned these days, except for Alicia Keyes and she needs to be, if you're hearing it, whoever did it did a
lousy job
Dude, I thought I was the only one hearing it, she's SO out of tune almost all the time.
#18
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #18
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theblue1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffLee View Post
There is no autotune on this clip. A couple of audio glitches but no autotune. Peoples is listening for stuff that aint there.
I'd like to hear a better recording of this before I give my final opinion... the audio is definitely a mess. (Is it just me or is a lot of the audio -- but not all -- on YouTube semi-suddenly messed up?)

I'm generally the biggest crybaby around when it comes to clumsy and/or inappropriate vocal retuning -- which I'd like to say is anytime you hear its ugly, fake sounding artifacts -- but I'm intellectually willing to cut slack for its use as effect even though it tends to make music so-affected pretty close to unlistenable for me [love Glee but actually have to turn the sound off sometimes the clumsy or over-the-top retuning bugs me so much] -- but I'm really not sure I'm hearing anything here.

Yes, there are a few times where I'm thinking, wait, something happened there, but, honest to gosh some folks do such heavy compression these days that some of the more extreme artifacts of that seem to associate in my mind with retuning (and I hadn't even thought about clumsy de-essing issues, I'll have to figure that into my analyses going forward).

I'm not saying it's not tuned -- there were a few places I could imagine Melodyning being the reason behind some features of the vocal as we hear it, but I just didn't feel it was the only explanation.

I do recall going through some of his studio recordings and hearing what did seem to me to be fairly obvious tuning -- which is one reason why a live clip that doesn't sound obviously tuned isn't sending off the same alarms in my head.

Another thing is that, while his singing is reasonable here, it's hardly epochal. He's not covering a huge range or showing any supreme vocal control, he's just seems to be doing a good, professional job of lounge singing, which is, of course, an art that is rapidly being lost.


Sometimes I wonder what youngsters who've never heard him before think of Chet Baker's often almost supernatural vocals. But I suspect the first thing many of them would notice -- and probably not be able to make sense of -- is that Baker's pitch choices typically reflect his pitch orientation as a horn player and so reflect true harmonic values rather than the Equal Temperament values that many pop singers try for (and which vocal retuning can deliver, in a sense). But surely they would also quickly notice his eerie ability to lock on a note.
#19
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #19
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I'm not hearing auto-tune

There is a small resemblance to an autotune artifact around 0:25, but the remainder of the performance sounds very natural. In fact, there are a few places that seemed a little off in pitch which suggests no autotuning was done.

But, if done skillfully, vocals can be tuned without artifacts. The subtle but detectable autotuning I've heard on some stuff makes me wonder whether it was done that way for some aesthetic reason, or if it was just done carelessly but the producer didn't notice it or didn't think anyone else would notice it. I assume the really obvious autotuning I hear on some material is done on purpose for effect (but maybe there are cases where that too is just carelessness).

#20
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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TheRealRoach's Avatar
Agreed that there are indeed some brief out of tune moments that would have been clamped if there was auto tune running.

That being said, there are a few moments that have the auto-tune-esque tonal distortion, but I have recorded vocalists and there have been moments where there was a weird natural glitch in their voice that sounded like a bad auto-tune moment.

I find that the only give away with subtle auto tuning (i.e. jazz singers, not Miley Cyrus) is the unnatural and incorrect formant adjustment as the pitch is corrected. I personally start to hear a bit of a sine wave sort of feel.

Either way, I think his performance sounds a bit stiff.
#21
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
...
Sometimes I wonder what youngsters who've never heard him before think of Chet Baker's often almost supernatural vocals. But I suspect the first thing many of them would notice -- and probably not be able to make sense of -- is that Baker's pitch choices typically reflect his pitch orientation as a horn player and so reflect true harmonic values rather than the Equal Temperament values that many pop singers try for (and which vocal retuning can deliver, in a sense). But surely they would also quickly notice his eerie ability to lock on a note.
Very interesting! I will have to check out Chet Baker.

I suspect from your post and your name that you are one who can really appreciate those sung blues notes that autotune would normally devastate. You might find Ripani's "The New Blue Music" an interesting read, especially in chapter 1 which explains the work of Titon who catagorized blues notes and actually measured their amount of "flatness".

Amazon.com: The New Blue Music: Changes in Rhythm & Blues, 1950–1999 (American Made Music Series) (9781578068623): Richard J. Ripani: Gateway

#22
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #22
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Michael has a speech impediment that makes him kind of lisp and sound a little like the helium Donald Duck sound.

It's mostly noticed at the end of phrases, like the first time he says "magic" at 0:44.

It's the same thing in the "Come Fly With Me" video when he sings the phrase "fly with me"

Or 2:15 "The Air is So dammed Rarefied" (love that word!)

YouTube - Come Fly With Me - Michael Buble

He may be Auto Tuned to the hilt, but PART of what everyone is hearing is just the way he sings.
#23
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomgadd View Post
except Jamie Cullum ...probably one of the greatest singers these days...with total control over his voice..
his intonation is perfect.
NO ONE'S intonation is perfect not even James Taylor
#24
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #24
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theblue1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystr Tiger View Post
Very interesting! I will have to check out Chet Baker.

I suspect from your post and your name that you are one who can really appreciate those sung blues notes that autotune would normally devastate. You might find Ripani's "The New Blue Music" an interesting read, especially in chapter 1 which explains the work of Titon who catagorized blues notes and actually measured their amount of "flatness".

Amazon.com: The New Blue Music: Changes in Rhythm & Blues, 1950–1999 (American Made Music Series) (9781578068623): Richard J. Ripani: Gateway

That sounds really interesting. I'll poked through that on Amazon a little but it's clear I should explore it more, and follow up with some of Jeff Todd Titon's work.

One thing about Baker -- he developed some serious lifestyle problems in later life and, while it's said he could still occasionally deliver a supernaturally on performance at times, it's probably best for your purposes to go back to his prime stuff. (Since I've been an on demand music subscriber and, so, have had access to, often, much of a given artist's work, I've become increasingly familiar with the unfortunately oft-true tag, earlier is better.)

Even in his prime, though, Baker made some pitch choices that strike even my open-minded ear as provocative.

Another really interesting singer is the late jazz vocalist Betty Carter. Again, if one listens to enough of her work, one may, indeed hear some choices that seem more provocative than necessarily harmonically precise (or maybe I'm just not sophisticated enough) but, overall, I think her singing shows a rarefied concern with pitch precision and harmonic sophistication. [Thanks to loopy for bringing that word (rarefied) to the front of my brain where I could grab it when I needed it. ]


The 'problem' for many of us in our thinking about pitch is that many or most of us probably grew up thinking that the 12TET (12 Tone Equal Temperament) system is somehow organically perfect... and, in a very limited sense, it sort of is. Unfortunately, it's a sort of perfection that glances right over the fact that it's based on a number of more-or-less convenient approximations of true harmonic values. (Hence, the beat tones one hears in a triad in even a 'perfectly' tuned digital keyboard, at least as long as it's tuned to 12TET, which is the default on pretty well, all.)

As soon as one starts trying to impose true harmonica values, the exact mathematical values imposed by so-called Just Intonation, one finds oneself in the middle of a once seemingly perfect system where now things only meet up properly in one key and where the attempt to modulate will result in intervals (within the modulation) that are wildly, woefully out of mathematical precision.

Me, I'm still on the outside looking in... reaching in the darkness trying to tell if this big thing in front of me is a tree trunk or an elephant's leg...


Those interested in exploring the concepts behind harmony as well as the concepts behind and the history of various temperament systems can probably get a good start here:

Harmony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Musical temperament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Equal temperament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just intonation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


BTW, the folks who make the Justonics system had some decent demonstrations of various temperaments as well as demonstrations of their dynamic temperament system for (some) digital synths. I haven't explored over there in a while, but it might be worth a visit: http://www.justonic.com/
#25
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
There's autotune/melodyne all over the recent record(s)
And it if there isn't, people are bitching about it.

I saw an otherwise serious newspaper complain that Anna Netrebko was pitchy on one of her recent CD's.
#26
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #26
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theblue1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
And it if there isn't, people are bitching about it.

I saw an otherwise serious newspaper complain that Anna Netrebko was pitchy on one of her recent CD's.
On more than a few occasions I've heard an opera singer who dishes a signficantly pitchy performance. (But, though I'm a big symponic/orchestral music fan, I'm just not an opera guy.)

I popped Nebrebko's In the Still of the Night album into my Rhapsody playlist.

I note that the first couple tracks (and I suspect all) are done recital-style, with just piano accompaniment (by Daniel Barenboim).

Some of her pitch choices may well hit the ear as dicey but I suspect it's, at least in part, because of the harmonic context of piano accompaniment.

An opera singer used to singing with a full orchestra where most of the instruments allow the player to shade his notes to true harmonic intervals is going to face some hard choices when accompanied by just a piano, with its 'foreign' equalized temperament. (Additionally complicating things is the fact that pianos often use so-called stretch temperaments that try to accommodate the property of metal strings to raise in resonance frequency when struck.)
#27
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Some of her pitch choices may well hit the ear as dicey but I suspect it's, at least in part, because of the harmonic context of piano accompaniment.
Like someone said above, no one's intonation is correct (except Ke$ha's ), BUT I really think you're using the magic word here.

Netrebko happens to be gawd, as far as I'm concerned, and I'll enjoy, trust and defend Her choices to the end.
#28
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #28
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theblue1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
Like someone said above, no one's intonation is correct (except Ke$ha's ), BUT I really think you're using the magic word here.

Netrebko happens to be gawd, as far as I'm concerned, and I'll enjoy, trust and defend Her choices to the end.
Yeah... I'm certainly not setting myself up to judge in this context, just reporting my own perceptions and guesses about others' possible reactions/interpretations.

And I actually listened to a large part of the album, and, though I'm really not drawn to classical/operatic singing, I found it to be quite enjoyable.

If a singer doesn't accommodate the limits of an equal tempered solo accompaniment in some fashion, there are simply going to be places where the singer sounds 'out of tune' against the piano.


Jumping around a little, since I mentioned Chet Baker and Betty Carter above, I'd like to cite one of my favorite singers, Joao Gilberto (the 'Girl from Ipanema' singer, Astrud Gilberto's ex-), who almost always accompanies himself on nylon string guitar.

When I first heard him (I was 14 or so and had bought the Getz/Gilberto #2 album thinking I'd hear Astrud but instead I was momentarily confused to hear her erstwhile old man) I have to say his own note choices seemed at times quite peculiar to my ear. But when I listen to him today, he sounds perfect.

Go figure. Maybe my ear has grown a little since I was a teen. (Even as that ol' frequency audibility range has shrunk an octave or so. Who needs all that air, eh? Ain't no notes up there. )


Speaking of singers who seem to supernaturally (third time this thread I've used the word so I'm figuring I should honor it with a little italicization) able to negotiate the often conflicting worlds of mostly 12TET instruments in small combos as well as taht of more temperamentally flexible orchestral instruments is Linda Ronstadt. The more I hear her, the more in awe I am. Maybe the closest thing to a perfect pop singer I can imagine.
#29
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #29
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Autotune has put me off perfection in vocals.

It's got to a point where if I hear a vocal that sounds too flawless, I'm not interested anymore. It's irrelevant to me whether it's been autotuned or not, or whether it's just a comp from a million takes.

here's an example:

Emily Portman on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

she's a folk singer who's a very, very good singer, who've I've seen several times. I was actually really looking forward to hearing her album. But the vocals are just so weirdly accurate, I can't enjoy it. I don't hear any autotune artefacts - at least I don't think I do, sometimes I'm not sure - but ultimately it doesn't matter. It doesn't doesn't feel right, feels a bit claustrophobic.
#30
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #30
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FireMoon's Avatar
That video is mimed and there are, if we are talking classical standards, duff notes all over the place.
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