Michael Bublé - Autotuned?
#91
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundmaster Alex View Post
I thought I was the only one too - now there's 2 of us! I can't listen to her, she's so out of tune.

As for Buble having a speech impediment, that's a strange way to describe his shameless copying of Sinatra's intonation on almost every word he sings.
yep, LOL, man, the guy just grates on me..affected, slick, contrived, predictable, sinatra'd.

Autotuned? with all that other stuff happening it pretty much doesn't matter.
#92
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
I can understand auto-tuning for whacked out effects in dance music, but you would think ol' bubbles there would rather just punch in until he gets it right, for his style of music. Wouldn't that be more natural? Unless the engineers are lazy. And there's a good chance that even he doesn't know. It's not unheard of for the artist to have sunshine blown up their rear as to not offend their low self-esteem and then to fix everything when they leave the studio, rather then asking him repeatedly to punch his vocals in and hurt his feelings.

Frank
I seriously doubt it's lazy engineers, the basic reason for using a tuning program at least for me is when you get something that is emotionally great that is more important than the pitch, unless the pitch is from mars. I don't think it's a blow sunshine up your ass thing, I'm sure he get's it as good as he can and then, David Foster and his tuning guy go through it with a fine tooth comb. The other issue is, since just about every record IS tuned it's tough to put a record out that doesn't have some tuning on it.
The fact that you hear the tuning is sloppy work on the part of the operator, unless it's a record where they are going for that effect.

one last thing to consider, some singers make some weird noises that can even sound like tuning. I've seen that happen more than once
#93
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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What I do like about the vid is that Bublé has good microphone technique, that's pretty much a lost art. Also, I definitely don't hear any Autotune.

It's a good perfromance overall but those in the known will go back to the Van Morrison original and be blown away. But I take stuff like this here over 99% of what's in the charts any day!
#94
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfield View Post
Mike Bubbles is from our home town. Took my wife to the concert 2 years ago. Phenomenal show, shmokin band, pitch was spot on, fabulous vocal control. Sound was almost hi-fi for an arena. I left feeling it was one of the most entertaining concerts I had seen.
Last month he came again. Now I'm don't mean to be disrespectful here to the Boobster, but I am still confused as to what happened. Right outta the gate his pitch was all over the place. I wondered if perhaps he had partied a bit too hard the night before, being in his home town and selling out 2 shows. It never got better. In fact if my wife wasn't groovin the vibe so much I would have gladly left. Did not work for the Jayburger at all. I called some friends in town who have worked with him as I just couldn't believe the contrast in the 2 shows. Truthfully, the first was a 10+ the second was barely a 2. Still confused as to what the heck was going on. Perhaps autune was involved 2 years back. I never thought of that at the time. Musically, that first show was truly astounding!
It could easily be some issues with his in ears monitor, if you can't hear yourself or the music you're singing to, then you rely on live cues around you on stage. I don't know you've ever been in that situation but it's hell to keep your pitch and timing.

Try this: borrow someone cell phone and call your own cell, pick up and place each phone on one ear. now try to sing ANYTHING in tune, impossible. that's what it feels like on stage with bad monitoring :-)
seriously, try it, it's actually fun for people watching you sing!
#95
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
What I do like about the vid is that Bublé has good microphone technique, that's pretty much a lost art. Also, I definitely don't hear any Autotune.

It's a good perfromance overall but those in the known will go back to the Van Morrison original and be blown away. But I take stuff like this here over 99% of what's in the charts any day!
Yeah, one of those classics that, if you're gonna cover it, it had better be great.

IMO this version is nothing more than lounge act level. Sorry, off topic I know.
#96
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Totally disagree. Real pro's have gone centuries without autotune. Every note does not have to be right where it should be in live performances. Which has been fine for centuries as well, actually millenniums.

2 hours to an extreme pro is barely a warm up.
Mmm... I wouldn't go as far as milleniums. Sure there's been singing as long as there has been the ability to use vocal cords the way modern human is able to, but the singing and melodies are quite different from the singing and melodies today...Or most centuries for that matter.

And I didn't say every note has to be right there in live performances. What I said was that it's easier to sing with a little help. Have you seen how the really good singers that put everything in it sweat?! It's not all stage lights you know.
#97
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaardVaaark View Post
I don't know the pieces in question.
I have been, however, involved in a lot of live albums recently.

Taking a lead vocal as an example...
Autotune/Melodyne only works so far due to the spill down the mic.
If the vocalist is front and centre, typically we'll get a lot of cymbals, as soon as the vocalist moves his/her head away from the mic.
If the vocalist is also an instrumentalist, we'll get a lot of that instrument down the mic. If you then try to tune this, it will also affect the other instrument's spill.

If you tune up, the spill will be tuned up, and when added to the original tracks it will confuse the mix, causing comb-filtering or phasing.

The only way out is to replace the offending line.

AV
An excellent point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
I can understand auto-tuning for whacked out effects in dance music, but you would think ol' bubbles there would rather just punch in until he gets it right, for his style of music. Wouldn't that be more natural? Unless the engineers are lazy. And there's a good chance that even he doesn't know. It's not unheard of for the artist to have sunshine blown up their rear as to not offend their low self-esteem and then to fix everything when they leave the studio, rather then asking him repeatedly to punch his vocals in and hurt his feelings.

Frank
I could believe that (the artist doesn't know he's been tuned) for some 18 year old kid who's barely if ever recorded. I mean, hell, I'm told a lot of young bands don't know when they've been ghosted by pros and the producer tells them the enginering staff just did some awesome Tooling.

But for someone like Buble? These are people who put their whole lives into singing and they know their voices inside and out.

Why would a bunch of us be able to hear the tuning on Buble's studio ablums but he wouldn't?

But, for sure, with some artists, I'm sure it does happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Lee View Post
Just thought to chime in... His records are ridiculous autotuned, but I doubt this performance is. The performance has some fast glides, various kinds of vibratos and other stuff that tune correction softwares don't allow or always ruin even in good hands.

He places his voice often in a place that over exaggerates those metallic qualities that people affiliate with the sound of autotune. I think that's it.

That's not to say he never uses autotune when live. Even Celine Dion does. Everyone does. It's extremely exhausting to sing 2 hours and consistently keep every note right where it should be. Takes serious control. It's tough even for the extreme pros.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Totally disagree. Real pro's have gone centuries without autotune. Every note does not have to be right where it should be in live performances. Which has been fine for centuries as well, actually millenniums.

2 hours to an extreme pro is barely a warm up.
I'd be willing to stipulate that giving a top flight, give-it-all performance for two hours is exhausting, but pros spend a long time learning to pace themselves. In the good old days it was not uncommon for working musicians to do as many as 300 dates a year, often times with two shows on a date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
That word doesn't make any sense.

How often do you think: "Wow, this song is wonderful, but it's fake so I hate it"? Or: "Wow, Mona Lisa is gorgeous, but she isn't real so I hate her"? Or "Wow, Hamlet is a great story, but it didn't really happen so I hate it"?

Welcome to The World of Make Believe! Everything is 'fake' here. Get used to it.
I'm among those who are willing to lump the artful use of vocal retuning for correction in with overdubs, punching, and other editing.

But... I'll also hasten to point out that illusion only really works when its done well enough that, with a little extra credulity on your part, you can at least momentarily believe in the illusion.

The kind of clumsy tuning corrections we hear all around us do not afford that illusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
... and electricity.
I quoted this for some reason. Ah yes... the history/progress thing. Art history is sometimes subtly and sometimes strikingly shaped by the technologies available to artists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
That's just nonsense... almost everything except opera has been tuned for a decade, and I'm sure you love some of it. (And serious critics now start to blame the finest opera singers in the world for being pitchy, so you don't have to be a prophet to see what's next.)
No. I don't think so -- at least not if one strays outside mainstream pop/country pop/R&B/rock. The only other explanation would be that a lot of the low budget, indie, and micro indie music I listen to has far better vocal editors than many million dollar projects. And that doesn't really seem likely.

Admittedly, I don't listen to pop music radio, tend to eschew Nashville and Austin fake-country for something with some real grit and roots, and have a fondness for outsiders. But I nonetheless hear good singing that I'm pretty sure isn't tuned. (And it does bug me when I hear the occasional obvious tuned bit in something like Laura Veirs or African neo-soul singer Nneka that I do like. But it's generally the exception in their music. And, in fact, the first time I heard Veirs, in a video, there was obvious tuning and I scratched her off the list. Later, I had occasion to hear a bunch of stuff that wasn't tuned [or was tuned much better than many big stars, ie, transparently] and I decided to give her a second chance. Glad I did.)
#98
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
  #98
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My god. There obviously are alot of Michael Buble haters here. Fair enough, but I don't hear any autotune in the clip op posted. Just a fantastic voice (both tone and pitch) and a great artist.thumbsup
#99
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
The kind of clumsy tuning corrections we hear all around us do not afford that illusion.
I don't BELIEVE you have heard any clumsy tuning corrections in commercial music the last decade.

But you may have heard more than a few tuning effects that were not to your liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I nonetheless hear good singing that I'm pretty sure isn't tuned.
However, you have no way of knowing if a singer has been tuned.

This is still news to most people -- especially to those who know pitch correction from their DAW or from Autotune.

The dirty secret is Melodyne. And I know it seems weird to use the words ‘Melodyne’ and ‘secret’ in the same sentence, but we are so used to the fact that most plugs sound more or less the same that it can be hard to accept that Melodyne really did change everything.

It gives you control over every aspect of your material, except timbre, and it is -- contrary to common belief -- completely transparent as long as you stay within +- 1 semitone and you know how to use all the tools in the box...
#100
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
no autotune here. some singers can actually pitch correctly. autotune could not manage the bends. certainly no autotune invovled in this performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by francois View Post
I don't think there is autotune on this track ,nothing obvious is jumping at me
Feels a few cents underpitched to my ears , whitcht would have been corrected to dead center pitch with autotune .
Autotune could of been used on a very slow forgiving setting ,
that would be harder to tell.

Auto tune in graphical mode I would be shocked if the people responsible for just popped autotune in auto mode, set to 25 and left it
My money is on melodyne for this. And its really really tuned to hell.
#101
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdee View Post
My god. There obviously are alot of Michael Buble haters here. Fair enough, but I don't hear any autotune in the clip op posted. Just a fantastic voice (both tone and pitch) and a great artist.thumbsup
Me either.
It's his speech impediment, especially when he ends phrases with words that have "S's" in them.
#102
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
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The tragedy is that Buble *just doesn't need it*. In fact, it reduces the natural humanism, dynamism and nuances/timbre of his voice.


sorry if there were already any responses to this post... i read this and had to reply right away. i think you hit it right on the button. especially his timbre. no matter what song / piece/ note he is singing... you know it's him. which adds a humanistic character to it. if all vocalists were tuned, there wouldn't be any bar to measure up to. nothing to really ever say "wow i wish i was that good". and compete with that sound, and in turn come up with your own unique sound? i don't know.... hahah

but yeah i love Buble's sound, and I don't for a second doubt that he could be the Canadian Frank Sinatra( / van morrison..... and A BURNABY twist of his own idea of awesomeness......? )



too much red wine... hahah
#103
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
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Ya know, Just about everything is getting tuned. I tune EVERYTHING that comes out of my studio whether it needs it or not. Especially country stuff. I do realize that a lot of artists need it, but I know that there are many who don't. I know the piano player for Jo Dee Messina and I've heard board mixes from live concerts and she's incredible. But her album sounds tuned. Lately, In most styles of music a vocal that hasn't been tuned just doesn't sound right to me. Michael Buble is an incredible vocalist. But I honestly don't mind the autotune. A lot of the "raw" albums that have been getting released in country music, (i.e. Jamey Johnson, Randy Houser) sound like everything is off pitch even though some of it is barely off. That drives me crazy more so than hearing auto tune. If you don't like auto tune NEVER pick up a Tim McGraw CD. It's all over the place.
#104
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
it can be hard to accept that Melodyne really did change everything.

It gives you control over every aspect of your material, except timbre, and it is -- contrary to common belief -- completely transparent as long as you stay within +- 1 semitone and you know how to use all the tools in the box...
I have used Melodyne and noticed the difference between before and after. I listened to some demos an engineer friend had made recently, on which the vocals sounded uncannily correct: the pitch and timbre didn't sound right. The 'artefact' I heard was essentially the absence of character. I asked him if he'd used Melodyne. He said yes.

Granted, I've heard vocal performances that have been melodyned in which I couldn't accurately describe in words why I know the've been melodyned. But the fact remains I know they've been melodyned. I'd have to used words like "hyper-smooth" or "plateaued". You can just hear it.

So no, it's not completely 'transparent'.

Vibrations and overtones are what builds timbre. I suspect pitch correction inherently and necessarily alters the voice's production of overtones. It's a process that nudges material closer to a sine wave. You'll always be able to hear that.

But ultimately, these debates are fairly pointless. The music I like doesn't use autotune. The bad music other people like (who, unlike me, have rubbish taste in music) uses autotune. I am king. My taste is better than everybody elses. I win.

#105
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
The dirty secret is Melodyne. And I know it seems weird to use the words ‘Melodyne’ and ‘secret’ in the same sentence, but we are so used to the fact that most plugs sound more or less the same that it can be hard to accept that Melodyne really did change everything.

It gives you control over every aspect of your material, except timbre, and it is -- contrary to common belief -- completely transparent as long as you stay within +- 1 semitone and you know how to use all the tools in the box...
I agree melodyne is a lot easier to use. But totally transparent? err...no....there's a top end rolloff that can really stack up if you use it on multiple tracks. Yes I've used it lots. Yes I know how to use it so the "tuning" is transparent. Yes I think it can probably rescue a really weak vocal more transparently than AT. I still prefer AT for sweetening though.
#106
7th October 2010
Old 7th October 2010
  #106
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but come on , between 0:24 and 0:26 ???
#107
7th October 2010
Old 7th October 2010
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well that transition from "colour" to "of" in the line "...colour of October skies" has that kind of strange smooth glissando ending in a very on-point pitch – a characteristic of tuning software.

But that's the only occasion. And, y'know, it's not unheard of for someone to sing a smooth glissando phrase that ends in a very authoritatively on-point pitch. And Sinatra-esque singing does tend to use a lot of slurs and glissandoes. So go figure.

Also, I'm sure I read somewhere that there's some footage somewhere of Michael Buble actually deliberately singing as if he had autotune on. He's kind of showing off, doing an impression of some big pop hit. Or did I just imagine that?

However you look at it, that particular clip is hardly autotune-central. The most that can have been tuned on that is maybe 3 phrases out of 30000, and even those 3 phrases are debatable. If autotune was used on that clip, I really don't care: it doesn't impinge upon that particular performance IMO. (And I'm hardly what you'd call a Buble fan.)
#108
7th October 2010
Old 7th October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binarymilton View Post
And, y'know, it's not unheard of for someone to sing a smooth glissando phrase that ends in a very authoritatively on-point pitch.
FWIW, a few months ago I recorded a very talented young female singer that sang to playback tracks of songs from Mariah Carey, Miley Cyrus,etc

Some parts of her performance sounded very much 'Autotuned' even though we tracked it straight. It was pretty amazing really because I think that this girl just meticiously copied the originals that obviousily DID have AT on them.

There were still some tuning problems like you would normally encounter even with very talented vocalists but the thing was that the Autotune 'imprint' was there and it was seperate from the actual pitching of the notes.
#109
7th October 2010
Old 7th October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
FWIW, a few months ago I recorded a very talented young female singer that sang to playback tracks of songs from Mariah Carey, Miley Cyrus,etc

Some parts of her performance sounded very much 'Autotuned' even though we tracked it straight. It was pretty amazing really because I think that this girl just meticiously copied the originals that obviousily DID have AT on them.

There were still some tuning problems like you would normally encounter even with very talented vocalists but the thing was that the Autotune 'imprint' was there and it was seperate from the actual pitching of the notes.
couldnt this particular thing be just imitating the way autotune responds tu naturalnes of vibrato ?
#110
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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#111
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
  #111
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He’s not autotuned. He’s deliciously out of tune.
#112
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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His pitch was FAR from perfect on SNL last night.
#113
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
Some parts of her performance sounded very much 'Autotuned' even though we tracked it straight. It was pretty amazing really because I think that this girl just meticiously copied the originals that obviousily DID have AT on them.
lol, YES! I've recorded teens and early 20's kids who have actually (unconsciously) learned to imitate some autotune artifacts the past couple years
#114
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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#115
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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#116
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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Embarrassingly bad.

Also, there's 2 threads going on about this very thing. I posted in both because I was so disgusted about this tuning disaster. Sorry for the doubles.
#117
18th December 2011
Old 18th December 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by envyandother View Post
Embarrassingly bad.

Also, there's 2 threads going on about this very thing. I posted in both because I was so disgusted about this tuning disaster. Sorry for the doubles.
I'm guilty on that count, too.

But, hey, the clumsy and obvious tuning on that DVD release is doubly insulting because it's clear that the dude can sing and probably wasn't so far out that they couldn't have got a DVD full of decent takes just by shooting two or three shows, as folks often used to do.
#118
30th December 2011
Old 30th December 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny View Post
lol, YES! I've recorded teens and early 20's kids who have actually (unconsciously) learned to imitate some autotune artifacts the past couple years

Oh yeah......more than once.
#119
30th December 2011
Old 30th December 2011
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Autotune is so gross.

I was pretty excited about hearing Willie Nelson singing "the Scientist"...until I heard it, and it was really stupid.

Personally, I find it extremely refreshing when singers aren't pitched.
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