Originally Posted by AaardVaaark
I don't know the pieces in question.
I have been, however, involved in a lot of live albums recently.
Taking a lead vocal as an example...
Autotune/Melodyne only works so far due to the spill down the mic.
If the vocalist is front and centre, typically we'll get a lot of cymbals, as soon as the vocalist moves his/her head away from the mic.
If the vocalist is also an instrumentalist, we'll get a lot of that instrument down the mic. If you then try to tune this, it will also affect the other instrument's spill.
If you tune up, the spill will be tuned up, and when added to the original tracks it will confuse the mix, causing comb-filtering or phasing.
The only way out is to replace the offending line.
An excellent point.
Originally Posted by ionian
I can understand auto-tuning for whacked out effects in dance music, but you would think ol' bubbles there would rather just punch in until he gets it right, for his style of music. Wouldn't that be more natural? Unless the engineers are lazy. And there's a good chance that even he doesn't know. It's not unheard of for the artist to have sunshine blown up their rear as to not offend their low self-esteem and then to fix everything when they leave the studio, rather then asking him repeatedly to punch his vocals in and hurt his feelings.
I could believe that (the artist doesn't know he's been tuned) for some 18 year old kid who's barely if ever recorded. I mean, hell, I'm told a lot of young bands don't know when they've been ghosted
by pros and the producer tells them the enginering staff just did some awesome Tooling
But for someone like Buble? These are people who put their whole lives into singing and they know their voices inside and out.
Why would a bunch of us
be able to hear the tuning on Buble's studio ablums but he wouldn't?
But, for sure, with some artists, I'm sure it does
Originally Posted by Jay Lee
Just thought to chime in... His records are ridiculous autotuned, but I doubt this performance is. The performance has some fast glides, various kinds of vibratos and other stuff that tune correction softwares don't allow or always ruin even in good hands.
He places his voice often in a place that over exaggerates those metallic qualities that people affiliate with the sound of autotune. I think that's it.
That's not to say he never uses autotune when live. Even Celine Dion does. Everyone does. It's extremely exhausting to sing 2 hours and consistently keep every note right where it should be. Takes serious control. It's tough even for the extreme pros.
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Totally disagree. Real pro's have gone centuries without autotune. Every note does not have to be right where it should be in live performances. Which has been fine for centuries as well, actually millenniums.
2 hours to an extreme pro is barely a warm up.
I'd be willing to stipulate that giving a top flight, give-it-all performance for two hours is
exhausting, but pros spend a long time learning to pace themselves. In the good old days it was not uncommon for working musicians to do as many as 300 dates a year, often times with two shows on a date.
Originally Posted by author
That word doesn't make any sense.
How often do you think: "Wow, this song is wonderful, but it's fake so I hate it"? Or: "Wow, Mona Lisa is gorgeous, but she isn't real so I hate her"? Or "Wow, Hamlet is a great story, but it didn't really happen so I hate it"?
Welcome to The World of Make Believe! Everything is 'fake' here. Get used to it.
I'm among those who are willing to lump the artful use
of vocal retuning for correction in with overdubs, punching, and other editing. But...
I'll also hasten to point out that illusion only really works when its done well enough that, with a little extra credulity on your part, you can at least momentarily believe in the illusion.
The kind of clumsy tuning corrections we hear all around us
do not afford that illusion.
Originally Posted by author
... and electricity.
I quoted this for some reason. Ah yes... the history/progress thing. Art history is sometimes subtly and sometimes strikingly shaped by the technologies available to artists.
Originally Posted by author
That's just nonsense... almost everything except opera has been tuned for a decade, and I'm sure you love some of it. (And serious critics now start to blame the finest opera singers in the world for being pitchy, so you don't have to be a prophet to see what's next.)
No. I don't think so -- at least not if one strays outside mainstream pop/country pop/R&B/rock. The only other explanation would be that a lot of the low budget, indie, and micro indie music I listen to has far better vocal editors than many million dollar projects
. And that doesn't really seem likely.
Admittedly, I don't listen to pop music radio, tend to eschew Nashville and Austin fake-country for something with some real grit and roots, and have a fondness for outsiders. But I nonetheless hear good singing that I'm pretty sure isn't tuned. (And it does
bug me when I hear the occasional obvious tuned bit in something like Laura Veirs or African neo-soul singer Nneka that I do
like. But it's generally the exception in their music. And, in fact, the first time I heard Veirs, in a video, there was obvious tuning and I scratched her off the list. Later, I had occasion to hear a bunch of stuff that wasn't tuned [or was tuned much better than many big stars, ie, transparently] and I decided to give her a second chance. Glad I did.)