Fishman Aura vs. D-Tar Mama Bear

[PHILANDDON]

Not exactly high end maybe, but which one do you think does a better job of emulating a mic'd sound of the guitar being played?

You see, I record live....acoustic guitar and vocals....no overdubs, and I like the idea of using a device like one of the above to get an acoustic guitar sound without any bleed.

Any other suggestions?

[buddamanic]

well you'll still have bleed into the vocal mic from the acoustic...

but I am lookin at these two products for live use, so a similar boat. Haven't tried either out but they both have a relatively large number of audio and video files to "demo."

To my ear, the mama bear was more "natural" whatever that means...The Aura was kind of...I guess gilding the lilly to my ear...? Both sounded AMAZING when I first heard them, then got progressively less so as I really kicked back.

I think what made me edge towards the mama bear (and again, this is just casually from listening to the demos online, you and I should absolutely try before buying) was the fishman flash demo where you could adjust the settings on the mics. Some were okay, but overdone in terms of the "body" effect, etc, and some of the mics were just lame. I mean a Schoeps CMC6 it was NOT, despite their assertion.

Just my 2c...

[GearGeek]

I have the Aura and I really like it. I chose it over the Mama Bear because I play a lot of nylon string and the Mama Bear doesn't have any. It's become an essential piece of gear in my live set up. That being said, I would never use it in the studio. Nothing beats the sound of a miced-up acoustic, period.

If you're recording live with no overdubs or edits, I don't see the need for zero bleed. Just position the mics right and you should be fine.

[sdelsolray]

I own neither, not have I used either extensively. I prefer the Mama Bear, sonically, although I've never tried an Aura with a guitar with personalized custom images, which is supposed to improve the Aura. There's about 3ms of latency with these products, not a big deal, but its unavoaidable.

[Peller]

I haven't used the Fishman, but have heard it in a small venue, and was very impressed, particularly on nylon-strung guitar.

I have tried the Mama Bear. On every single setting it sounded worse than the unprocessed signal.

[nodding dog]

Working a lot in the studio. Bought a mama bear recently and was at first very disappointed. Not to say pissed off and frustrated (you have to work at it-then you can get really pissed off) I Play Walden and Lakewood guitars fitted with Schertler Bluesticks that sound great un-amplified and disappointing through the Scherler Unico amp. Sigh - spent a lot on equipment but not really satisfied in spite of all the hype. Still looking for that real,warm acoustic tone. But....and here's a tip; after fiddling around with the Mama Bear both live and mainly in the studio, Ive discovered that the key seems to be the output knob. Get the input flashing red occasionaly, turn down the output so you're getting a real acoustic sound in your cans/amp/whatever and then leave it up to the sound boys to do the rest. Problem with a lot of acoustic technology is that it gives you an overdriven sound. Sounds great on your bedroom acoustic but once its amplified, you hear all the nasty bits - buzzes, quacks, shits and suicides -makes you want to cut your throat.(or someone elses!) Turning down the output gives you a lot more control and you get a more natural sounding guitar. (not too bad actually and if you add a touch of reverb and a soup-spoon of delay, you might even begin to relax and play the ****ing thing which ,when you think about it ,is the point)
If your sound engineer tells you he/she doesn't like it and they're not getting enough level ,politely tell them to go **** themselves!! Get the sound you want, not the sound that someone else tells you is "necessary". Most equipment is a learning curve. We expect it to do all sorts of things at a touch of a button. Doesn't work like that.Sometimes you just have to persevere- believe in yourself; turn down the output and if that doesn't work-sell it and get something else or............take up Makrame

[Beagle1]

I really wanted to like the Fishman Aura stuff and I've tried their new pedals, the original Aura blender unit, and the built-in Aura systems sold in some models of Martin guitars. I have to agree with the earlier poster who said the models were overdone in terms of the mic effect. They all had this static digital quality to them that I could never get past. Also, the Aura stuff didn't feel very good in terms of responding to varying dynamic levels. FWIW, I suspect that the Aura is most successful if you actually send them your guitar to create custom sound images for it.

Given my experience with the Aura, I was highly skeptical of the DTAR Mama Bear. The only reason I decided to try Mama Bear is that I had replaced the stock Fishman pickup in one of my Martins with DTAR's Wavelength undersaddle pickup...and it was a quantum leap in terms of the direct sound coming out of the guitar. The Wavelength uses an 18 volt preamp and it is by far the warmest and most natural undersaddle pickup I've tried.

So anyway, given my experience with the Wavelength I figured I'd check out the Mama Bear and I am glad I did. I can't really recommend it as a direct recording device...rather I think its forte is adding just a touch of "air" back into the sound of an undersaddle pickup. I would recommend using the effect sparingly, with the blend set between 30-40% effect and 60-70% pickup...50/50 and it is too much for my tastes. Used in this manner, it's quite a subtle effect and you almost don't notice it until you hit the bypass button. But IMHO it is really good at delivering a nice acoustic sound through a PA system with minimal hassle. And it works well with a lot of different guitars and pickups systems.

BTW, some people have commented on the lack of nylon string models in Mama Bear...well, it won't transform a steel-string into a nylon string or anything like that. But the "Boutique Fingerstyle" model can be used to good effect with nylon string guitars, especially if you are using the blend below 50% effect as I mentioned above.

For recording acoustic guitars direct, of course nothing beats a real mic but I have found that the K&K Trinity system (soundboard pickup plus internal mic) can sound pretty darn good when put in the context of a mix.

[buzzjoe]

Don't know the Mama Bear but I had the Aura. Sold it because it doesn't sound natural to me (especially didn't like the latency). Now I use a K+K-system with an internal mic - cheaper and better (sounds almost like my Martin HD-18 :-).

Good luck!

Oliver

[siegfried]

hello, any chance to get impulse response from fishman aura nylon version? If anybody here could do it for me (and all others too, of course), he/she will be my hero! thumbsup

[Charlie12]

As someone who is somewhat obsessed with making my Guild D55 (with Wavelength Lock n Load under saddle pickup) sound more “acoustic” when amplified, I recently spent several hours A/B’ing a Spectrum against my Mama Bear.

I put the sound thru several headphones, my standard 2x Fishman Solo Amps, and a Behringer 1320 Eurolive floor monitor. I’m basically a finger picker, no picks.

Since Fishman has no downloadable image for my Guild D55 (it is not really like any guitar I’ve used before – incredible sound and action, but lots of bass), I tested approx. 120 “Images”, each with several combinations of blend, volume, low/mid/high tone controls, phase, etc.
I finally found one image that was close, i.e., made the amplified output sound fairly acoustic: a Martin HD28V Spruce/Rosewood imaged with a Neumann U87. The Guild F50-Rimaged with a DPA 4011

120+ images resulted in an electric or quacky sound.

Although the Spectrum HD28/U87 came close to my current “optimized” setup for the Mama Bear (I tweak it often to try to get it a little better), the Mama Bear sounded better to my ears thru speakers and headphones.

I also tried a direct Spectrum Hookup to my Apogee Duet / Garage Band, hoping to find n easier way to record than my usual mic’d x/y setup (MXL 604/603), but definitely not even close – actually unusable. Guess I’ll stick to the mics, even though they’re a pain. The Mama Bear didn’t work well either in a direct recording situation.

Here’s my current setup for the Mama Bear (definitely different for each guitar and set of ears!): Input knob – 12:30 position; Blend – 11:30; Output – 11:30; Source – 2; Target – 12; Analog Lo Cut – In (because of the unusual bass response of my D55.)

My “best” settings on the Spectrum: Volume – 12:30; User Image – Martin HD28S / Neumann U87; Blend – 4:30; Low Tone knob – 8:00; Mid – 11:30; high – 12:00; compressor – none. I texperimented for several hours. I’m sure if Icontinued, I would have made a few more tweaks, but I think any improvements would have been minimal. Playing Style: Country, Folk, Bluegrass, etc., usually fingerpicked with no picks.

Guitar: Guild D55 with stock DTAR Lock n Load Wavelength under saddle pickup. Note: This is the best sounding and playing guitar I’ve ever used, and I’ve tried some of the best! I LOVE this guitar!!

Other: Fishman gets high marks for support. I emailed a question re/ tone control and got a response within hours. The spectrum is built like a tank. Very convenient to use (battery powered w/ optional A/C wart. Lots of control and features.

I’ve emailed DTAR a couple of times, but never got a response.

Bottom Line: With my Guild D55 DTAR, and my finger style, the Mama Bear was slightly better than the Spectrum. Because of the compact form factor and battery operation and flexibility of the Fishman, I was hoping it would result in a better sound, but it didn’t. Possible if there was a Guild D55 image, the result might have been better, but I doubt it. I’ll keep the Mama Bear and sell the Spectrum.