Music Club Design - how much $$?

[rcb4t2]

Hey all - I've got some of my own notions about this, but I wanted to try and get some feedback from the "collective". A friend of a friend locally wants to hire me to design and install a sound system for his small music club (maybe 50'x30'ish for the main space). In addition to the system, I'd also need to set up cabling, mixer (and related rack gear), a modest recording rig wired to the mixer, make sure the power is up to snuff, and some acoustic treatment in the space (probably minimal, but it'll be part of it).

I've worked with some folks locally helping them set up home studios etc, and I'd usually charge around $40 / hour for onsite stuff. I'm confident in my ability to handle this job with ease (especially since I've just spent a ton of time researching soundproofing, power schemes, acoustics, etc etc etc for my own studio install, soon to be completed), but I'm a little unsure how and how much to charge.

My initial thoughts were a flat fee for the planning stage (picking out gear, signal flow, etc etc), and then an hourly or day rate for the install. I'm just in the midst of completing my own studio, and frankly the last thing I want is to embark on another install / "from scratch" project, but so it goes.

Again, the planning would include cabling, speakers, FOH (with small recording rig, maybe an HD recorder or similar), accessories (mic stands, DIs, etc etc etc), acoustics (I'll probably take some room measurements and lay out basic treatments), consulting with client to lock down budget and needs. A $1000 fee for planning breaks out to about 25 hours at my usual rate, which I think is reasonable to really lock down all the details (if I went by how long I spent planning my space it'd be more like 2500 hours, but that's another story lol). I am pretty solid on what my day rate'll be for the install, I'm looking for feedback on the planning price.

I'm 25 but I have a pretty firm grasp on the technical end, and as a gigging musician in this town I do have a pretty clear understanding of the "artist's perspective". The client seems to have enough money to get the thing off the ground, but is certainly not wealthy either. This guy is also a friend of a very close friend, and there'd be a FOH gig in it for me after the install, so I'm not trying to bust balls, but at the same time I want my time to be valued appropriately.

Does this sound reasonable to people? Too low, too high?

Thanks!

[mattg082]

Sounds like a good deal for you in the long run with having a FOH gig after and being able to probably put some events on and have some pull at this new place. I'd most likely round up what my usual costs would be with estimated hours then go ahead and cut 15% off then estimate it back out to how much that would be hourly and go with it. It would be giving him a deal to get in a bit better and just flat out tell him you're giving him a awesome deal. This would be my moral feelings for a friend or future friend/employer. If the guy has money, I needed the money badly, couldn't afford it myself and he wasn't a friend of a friend with a future gig in it for me then probably not.

just my 2cent.

[thetalkinghead]

these guys in DC opened up an awesome club with the nicest sound system ive ever heard. all Martin Audio speakers and subs. sounds INCREDIBLE. you should e-mail them and ask them for advice. the place is called U St. Music Hall.

[mattg082]

Well being a small club I guess you're not looking at overkill here in any way and something that sounds nice. I know some people might slam me for this suggestion but one of the best systems I've heard for small clubs my friend own here in town was one of those Bose L1 systems...well they have two or three of them with the entire setup. It just sounds so awesome and work great for a small venue. I've been in some small clubs where they will just build a booth for the mixing ect. racks some cheap power amps,eq and maybe a compressor for live vocals with a power strip and snake to the stage then hang some Peavey speakers off chains with monitors and a sub on the stage...I find it gets a bit crazy sounding with the fact it's small where one speaker might have to be lower than the other because it would blow the peoples head off at the bar! A small venue can be tricky but I stand by my suggestion as I've seen that system in action at many small clubs and it's amazing how it works! You don't even notice it's there and it has a great full big sound for big bands to club nights with djs! It really does the trick for those volume issues with small venues so that it's nice and loud but no crazy bass build up or fatique on the audience. It may save you some time with excessive treatment in the long run.



They are designed just for this purpose.

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/...tems/index.jsp

[rcb4t2]

Yeah Matt I love those bose sticks - the client had even come across them in his own research. The problem with them is you'd really need 2, or maybe 3 with the bass modules to provide enough comfortable volume. At $2k / stick (and that's a modest estimate - with the bass modules etc it'd really be more) you're talking about a $5k setup for a small club. You can do just as well with less $$$ using your traditional 15 or 18s with a sub. Again, though, I'm their #1 fan for smaller venues.

ps, though, let's keep on topic of "how much should I charge"... I'm sure I'll have another thread going for suggestions once I start planning. Thanks!

[mattg082]

Ha, yeah that was my first reply but just someone else comment about that so thought I might as well throw my 2 cent in. But yeah love those systems but I was thinking at least 4,000. Probably cut cost down if you do the treatment really well and have a good rack with the right stuff. Anyways back to the original question

[rcb4t2]

Yeah man - you know how it is around here - club systems are always some hacked-together mess of behringer and improperly wired stage cabling. I plan to avoid the need for esoteric high-end gear by setting it up properly. (it's in mid-city, by the way, quite close to my new studio - both on N. Broad!)

[mattg082]

Worst place remember playing last out there was the Trantula Arms by the HOB on decatur. Oh man that place was small and crappy setup. It was a walk in daiquiri place they made a venue. Those places are very very small lol. The dixie tavern was kind of bad too in the day but bad sound kinda worked for that place.

[wafflesomd]

Those bose stick are that expensive? Holy crap what a rip off. Why would anyone even suggest them here.

If you wanna get the best possible performance I would go a DIY route. It's not hard to build a high quality full range or two way/three way with sub that will deliver much higher sonic quality than most manufacturers.

Having heard some Meyer, Martin, Funktion One, Peavey, Yamaha and JBL cabinets (including line arrays and JBL being comically bad) I could never find that sounded halfway decent to my ears. It's almost insulting that these companies can put out such poor cabinets at their cost.

I have my own set of 12" two ways and 18" subwoofers that perform exceptionally with all material.

If you've got the time and can construct things, go DIY.

[Darm]

Originally Posted by wafflesomd

Those bose stick are that expensive? Holy crap what a rip off. Why would anyone even suggest them here.

If you wanna get the best possible performance I would go a DIY route. It's not hard to build a high quality full range or two way/three way with sub that will deliver much higher sonic quality than most manufacturers.

Having heard some Meyer, Martin, Funktion One, Peavey, Yamaha and JBL cabinets (including line arrays and JBL being comically bad) I could never find that sounded halfway decent to my ears. It's almost insulting that these companies can put out such poor cabinets at their cost.

I have my own set of 12" two ways and 18" subwoofers that perform exceptionally with all material.

If you've got the time and can construct things, go DIY.

Speakerplans.com and their forums are great for that

[rcb4t2]

GUYS

Thanks for the input, but this thread is about "How much to charge for a music club design". It is not about DIY speakers, or Bose sticks, or clubs on Bourbon.

Any additional on topic answers are welcome! tutt

[AntillesSound]

Your plan sounds solid boss. I would just build something into the contract [which you MUST have] that makes provisions for extra $$$ should things carry on too long, or you end up working much more than outlined/quoted. This has burned me a couple of times with session work, so I try to think about it first these days, haha.

Best of luck.