Black Lion Audio...

[T-Stag]

Originally Posted by T-Stag

Top skin: Focusrite d2, Digidesign Lo-fi, possibly a Waves Q3

And how can I forget... Add a Waves C1 Gate to this list.

Kindest regards,
Erkka

[Big Ale]

Spicemix What has age got to do with anything ? Are you putting a cap on people and there knowledge down to Age ?

[WunderBro Flo]

Thanks Erkka,
so whatever plugin was responsible for delaying the snare, this needs to be eliminated before we can compare. Rendering the plugin chain would do the trick. Please do not misunderstand this, I am not demanding anything from you. Just pointing out what needs to be adressed before a valid conclusion can be drawn from your setup.

Rock on!

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo

Thanks Erkka,
so whatever plugin was responsible for delaying the snare, this needs to be eliminated before we can compare. Rendering the plugin chain would do the trick. Please do not misunderstand this, I am not demanding anything from you. Just pointing out what needs to be adressed before a valid conclusion can be drawn from your setup.

Rock on!

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the plugin is causing the lack of null. Despite some peoples' insistence that mods and converters are in modern gear inaudible, whenever I've done null comparisons between different converter loopbacks, you could ALWAYS clearly hear the mix in the difference file.

These devices are not so transparent as some would claim.

But yes, rendering the plugins would sidestep any potential issues and give you your answer for sure.

[WunderBro Flo]

I'll explain it again: in this case the snare does not null but other content of the same frequency area does, so it cannot be from the converter mod. the timing of the snare is simply different.
rock on!

[FOURTHTUNZ]

Geez, what a convoluted off topic thread. Oh well.

I got my oo2 modded by black lion as I was getting ready to sell my Hd system and my 192.
I've had my unmodded 002 for at least a couple of years before getting the mod so I was pretty used to how it sounded.
I'd also had my 192 for 6 years or so, and was used to how that sounded.
Anyway, no real scientific test, just ran the same cd into both systems as well as recording a band with the 002 before the mod and after the mod and I
have come away feeling that the mod was well worth it.
Oh and I have used the 002 to record live classical music and a pianist, I thought you could hear the difference even doing a stereo recording
the piano sounded...more 3d?
The OO2 now sounds more open to me, just better!

I did have an issue after the mod, don't remember now what it was but I paid the shipping and they fixed it for free, so I'm very happy.
Considering a 96 i/o mod right now, anyone done it?

[Capstan Cappy]

i have a slightly off topic question for the EU customers of BL ,
hoe did you ship your unit and what taxes did you have to pay when it was returned to you, i called customs and DHL several times and i was getting a different awnser each time ... thnx in advance

[Steb]

I asked the same question to HMRC. hope this helps

Thank you for your e mail dated 13 September which has been passed to me to deal with.

If the goods are your own property or that of your family, you may be eligible to use a “non-
commercial authorisation for Outward Processing Relief” whereby relief from import duty is
allowed, and VAT is only payable on the price charged to you for the repair (including any
charge made for materials) and any freight and other charges incurred in getting the goods
to and from the repairer.

If you are exporting the goods using the postal service then you only need obtain and
complete a certificate of posting (C&E 132) as proof of export. These are normally available
at most post offices or can be downloaded from our website at HM Revenue & Customs: Home Page

For re-importation purposes you should ask the repairer to complete the Customs
declaration stating “OPR goods” and to include the repair costs. On arrival in the UK the
goods may be intercepted by us and you will be sent a “Notice of arrival of goods” (C160)
that you should complete and return to the address stated thereon. Any charges due
will then be notified to you and will need to be accounted for before the goods are finally
delivered back to you.

A full explanation of the procedures is given in Public Notice 235 Outward Processing Relief.

[Gearhero]

Any updates on the test?

[madtheory]

I've been way to busy to do anything. If anyone's run Audio Rightmark on their modded box, that might be revealing.

Also, I've been wondering if the mods are FCC compliant. I would've thought that if you change the digital circuit then it has to be tested again. Not testing is taken rather seriously by the FCC, as Behringer found out a few years ago. However, if the circuit isn't really changed then that's OK for FCC, but not for the customer...

[mattg082]

I've been seeing bla 002 mods all over ebay right now more so than ever before. pretty much the price for a 003 or 002 when it was bran new and just came out. the 002 and 003 without the mod are so cheap it's scarey haha. like $300. I would of thought people would of held onto their mods regardless, but then again i guess it was a protools deal now that 9 is out.

[Budda]

I offered to run whatever test I could, but Mr. madtheory declined to give me his test. Now he claims he's "too busy".

If that free "Audio Rightmark" is compiled for Mac - I don't run Bootcamp or whatever, probably because Virtual PC turned me off SO badly with regard to "emulation" software and their ilk, and yes, I know it's different now, but I still don't care - I'll be happy to run the test.

Don't know what these charts will tell you about how great the thing sounds, but I'm happy to run a test if you like.

[madtheory]

Great, post the results when you have it done.

[Budda]

Bud,

step 1: give me test, whatever test you like that I can run for you, whatever test you refused to give me before

step 2: I will run it

[madtheory]

That's not going to be very useful unfortunately. The two 003 systems we have here are down pending motherboard replacements for the Macs. No idea how long that will take to fix. So I have two tests from modded boxes, but no tests on a non modded box for comparison.

[mattyblue]

Could you post the two test that you have now?

[Budda]

Originally Posted by madtheory

That's not going to be very useful unfortunately. The two 003 systems we have here are down pending motherboard replacements for the Macs. No idea how long that will take to fix. So I have two tests from modded boxes, but no tests on a non modded box for comparison.

Arrgh.

Then I don't know what you were going to give me in the first place, nor what you expected me to run now.

[yamatersu]

Reading through this thread has been entertaining and I've been very curious about the BLA mods over the years (curious yes, but not enough to pay for one myself, and I'm a pc/reaper guy). But seriously... I read through all those messages, all the while getting excited about hearing some 'will be done soon' valid test files to compare. I mean REALLY, I was super geared up with all the intellectualism and 'daytime' SE/EE/BB drama and since I don't have a schedule to keep up with I've been reading through the night here with great anticipation! Only to be let down immensely... There is literally nothing educational about BLA mods in this thread. However, there's a lot of other educational aspects about this thread and for that I'm quite thankful.

Lastly I realize this is an old thread. No demands coming from me, I just found it so utterly bothersome after getting to the end of it that I felt the desire to see if anybody pokes their face out with anything new.

[madtheory]

Sorry, I dropped the ball on this. Bad taste after this discussion, it got very silly so I lost the motivation to pursue it to the bitter end.

Anyways, I supplied a 20Hz to 20kHz sine sweep, an audio file of several genres of music, and asked the user to record silence. I got two back but can only find one. I could've sworn I sent 44.1kHz files, but these are 96kHz. So not much of a test, the details are not clear. Sorry! :(

I'll see if I can contact the guys again, they were very helpful and co operative despite having forked out for the mod. They were plain old fashioned interested in the outcome of a bit of science, and didn't take anything personally. So that was a good outcome at least! Maybe there's interest in this again?

So FWIW, here's the looped back output of sine sweep, and looped back "silence" (i.e. noise floor!) on a BLA mod 003R:
Bla_test 2.zip

It's pretty messed up as you'll see and hear! I will post the audio files later, they don't have the strange echo. So I personally wouldn't draw anything from the sine sweep, due to the possibility of misunderstandings and user error. However, the noise floor would be measurable, so we could at least compare that to stock. A look at the noise spectrum might reveal any ground loop issues, solved or worsened by the mod.

[yamatersu]

Thanks for the silence! I'm not even sure how to wrap my head around the sine sweep from the BLA mod on it's own. The noise floor anyway is something I understand. Urgh, I'd have to make a facebook account if I really wanted to get a hold of someone I know with an unmodded 003R. At the moment I prefer to be somewhat anonymous over learning a little bit more about all of this and I'm still not very motivated as I don't ever intend on forking out the dough myself. However, if it's convenient and local I'll definitely show up here again with the files and my own comparison. Off the top of my head I'd say that would more likely occur next spring!

I completely understand the bad taste involving the thread. Please believe, I really do! So no real harshness intended by me, and you don't really have to bother with investigating into this further. I'm not so sure this thread would welcome it. In other words, I think you had the right idea when you dropped everything in the first place

Sharing personal experiences with gear using poetry is fine by me most of the time and I do find that interesting but it seems like this thread doesn't want anything but that. That and all the poetry is a bit lacking in originality (joke). It really does appear to be a Sunk Cost Bias sort of situation. I'm not saying this about anybody in particular or knocking BLA mods, just making a statement about the movement of this thread. At this point in my life I won't even bother myself with money I can't get back. My first interface was a firepod and after some years I replaced it with an emu 1616m expecting a huge difference for the better. Tried to sell the firepod (I don't really do ebay) and literally nobody I knew wanted it. I even tried to give it away for free! (in the end I forced it on someone with a mobo that didn't have working sound but good firewire, it just gets used for personal listening) And as far as the 1616m is concerned... Well I think it's good enough for whatever really and will probably be connected to some computer in my house up until it won't turn on anymore. But an upgrade? I let that bother me for a long time and it didn't do anything but bring me down. As soon as I let go of the matter I suddenly became a lot more educated about converters in general and overall my decision making vastly improved from then on out. Converters and conversion aside, there was a more valuable lesson being applied there (Sunk Cost Bias anyone? It screwed up my google searches mane). It wasn't automatic or magical but I did stop focusing on ways to justify a 1616m over a Firepod which incidentally led me to a larger variety of information. I could go on and on but I gotta stop so I can figure out a specific order to watch all of Battlestar Galactica in :p

It's been a fun read! Hell, science is fun! To me at least, if something isn't fun it's hardly worth doing so by all means keep updating here if the desire comes a knockin'.

[madtheory]

Hope to redo that sine sweep. And the 002R (sorry not 003!!) systems are back up and running here so I can do a detailed comparison of noise floor and frequency response at least. I think those two would be enough to slay the dragons around here!

Originally Posted by yamatersu

Sunk Cost Bias sort of situation.

That's definitely a large part of the problem. Easily eliminated with blind AB testing. Watch out for the jihad with that.

Originally Posted by yamatersu

Hell, science is fun!

Yup, although certain people are afraid to be wrong so they don't get that, despite their insistence that we "Enjoy".

[madtheory]

The noise floor on that file is -88dBFS. Does anyone know where I can get the written specs for the 003R? It's not in either of the pdf manuals on the Avid site. Although it's probably given as A weighted, which is pretty much useless...

[Elika]

I have a "God Mod" 002R. There is no comparison to the stock version. I just finished tracking and mixing through it and will post files once they return from mastering.

[urbanjack]

I am currently using the BLA modded profire 2626 and Behringer ADA 8000 clocked with the micro clock mkII. I also own an Auteur and almost never take it off of kick and snare. I've also used the Autuer on vocals, acoustic and electric guitar, stereo synth and drum machine. In every case BLA's gear has worked for me as advertised and my customers are always pleased and a little surprised at the quality of the recordings. When I don't want any color on something I've often gone straight into the interface and the result is always honest to the source and very pleasing to the ear. I don't detect any of the midrange smearing effects that occurs on this gear pre-modification. I used to track and mix through all apogee gear and there's nothing wrong with that stuff, but I've found that going with BLA is much cheaper and a little step up in the clarity and depth of the records I've worked on.

I do a lot of remixing in the box for people. Most recently I remixed a couple of records that were tracked and mixed on a Pro Tools HD system with a lot of great outboard gear by a very competent engineer. The records didn't sound bad in the first place, but the band wanted a different feel. The universal comments are always that my mixes have better depth, clarity and midrange punch. How much of that has to do with the gear vs the style of mixing I can't say, but I'm very happy with all of my BLA purchases and plan on purchasing more of their outboard gear in the future. Next up will probably be the PM8.

[Calderwood]

Does anyone have experience with BLA's AM/CHA1 EQ? Any and all info would be appreciated. This is my Gearslutz bubble pop. Hooray!

[origin35]

I have had a BLA modded Motu 828MKII for about 5 years and I have to say it was a MASSIVE improvement.

I record analog synthesizers and external samplers quite a bit, and i found that my pre-mod MOTU sounded great when I was monitoring via CueMix, but the quality suffered when I actually listened to the recordings. The box had a low-fi grainyness that was ruining my Alesis Andromeda's fantastic sound.

Don't even talk to me about the mic pres; totally useless.

That said, after getting the mod, I found my recordings to be nearly exact. Plain and simple. no vibe or color, just an exact replication of what I sent into the card, particularly at sample rates higher than 44kHz.

I would definitely recommend, as it's a great way to stretch out the usefulness of cheaper gear.

8/10 as the cost and wait time are annoying.

Also 8/10 because when I bought my MicroClock 2, the person on the phone informed me that "We sell two kinds of Word Clock BNC cables"

Me: "What is the difference between the two, as one is more money".

Response "The premium cable is less taxing on the ears over long periods of time".

I haven't bought anything from them since as that was the biggest line of horseshit I've ever gotten from an audio company.

That's my 2 cents.

-Origin

[Hoegersson]

We did some A/B's and were impressed how a 002 or a saffire 56 could sound.

Give it a listen and judge for yourself.

[Inertia Black]

I had BLA's Signature mod performed on my 003 Rack and couldn't be happier with the results.

The biggest audible differences were the transparency of the pre's, AD-DA is stellar, improved signal to noise ratio, increased head room, better transient detail, and it's simply more useable than a stock 003, hands down.

The BLA mod made my 003 a truly faithful unit that I rely on for overheads, vox, guitar, and limited channel mobile recordings with a stereo pair of 414's.

I have an HD2 system w/ no boutique pre's as of yet, and I often find myself tracking certain instruments with my 003 in LE and then transferring the audio files to HD later because I enjoy it's sound so much.

The shop heads at BLA are cool cats also. I went in, dropped of my 003, met the staff & got a quick tour of their workspace, which made me a bit jealous.... I know the waiting list sucks for those not in Chicago, but from the time I ordered the mod up to pickup, it was about a week.

[troxelj]

Black Lion says their best-sounding unit after the mod is on the RME Fireface UFX, which is also the most expensive unit they mod. My questions are as follows - and I really hope someone will have a real-life experience to share;
1) Has anyone compared a pre-modded Fireface UFX to a modded unit?
2) If so, what are your observations?
3) Since a modded Fireface approaches the cost of a used Prism Orpheus, has anyone compared these two units?
4) If so, what are your observations?

Thanks in advance to anyone who might have taken the trouble to do this testing for all of us.

[JeromeMason]

Originally Posted by troxelj

Black Lion says their best-sounding unit after the mod is on the RME Fireface UFX, which is also the most expensive unit they mod. My questions are as follows - and I really hope someone will have a real-life experience to share;
1) Has anyone compared a pre-modded Fireface UFX to a modded unit?
2) If so, what are your observations?
3) Since a modded Fireface approaches the cost of a used Prism Orpheus, has anyone compared these two units?
4) If so, what are your observations?

Thanks in advance to anyone who might have taken the trouble to do this testing for all of us.

FWIW, I don't have experience with that particular interface and mod from BLA, but my setup is littered with BLA gear and what I can tell you is, if BLA claims it, it's been absolutely true for me. I have learned to trust what those guys claim. I absolutely love their in house gear, great quality.