ATC'S overpriced? or appropriately priced?

Matt Grondin · 11th December 2005

I was just wondering who here, besides George Massenburg and Chuck Ainlay (who have alot bigger gear budgets than I do), has personally used ATC monitors? Sometime in the next 6 months I want to get a kickass pair of nearfields and those ATC's sure look sweet, but they are way out of my price range. Are they overpriced? An alternative that I was looking at would be the Barefoot Mini's, but those are pretty darn expensive too. I have some NS-10's and ADAM ANF 10's right now, but I'm a little burnt on the ADAM sound... they sound great, but I find myself not really enjoying the way they sound sometimes. Maybe that's a good thing though.

Fletcher · 11th December 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobby12

I'm a little burnt on the ADAM sound... they sound great, but I find myself not really enjoying the way they sound sometimes. Maybe that's a good thing though.

That's the ONLY reason to have the ADAM's in my opinion. When I'm working on stuff they tell me in no uncertain terms that I suck. They make me work harder to get things to gel better; they make me work harder to get my lower mids clearer, better defined, and properly arranged. They force me to get my balances and textures in line to serve the music.

I sincerely doubt I would have them in my home for casual listening... and as a dealer I have to say that we're not sure if we're going to continue with the line of speakers as there are distribution issues [capital outlay vs. return on investment boring numbers shit] with which we have to reconcile... but as a recording engineer... it will be a good long time before you'll ever see me sit down at a desk without a pair of S3-A's in front of me.

Yeah, I know the ANF-10's are different... especially in the lower octaves... but the low mids, mids and upper mids are pretty much "there" [depending on the amp you have on the ANF-10's... the ones I've used we've used McIntosh amps and they've sounded "right"]... and frankly, if you learn to use the NS-10's properly you'll know everything you'll ever need to know about the "low octave" of a presentation [bring up the low end until the surround on the woofer crinkles... then bring up variable hi-pass filters on your kik and bass until you can hear the two working well together without crinkling the woofer surround at 100+ db SPL].

Best of luck with all you do.

max cooper · 11th December 2005

I've been working with my ATC 20's for a few months now.

Mixing was the part of recording that I dreaded. I figured that I was just naturally not good at it. I didn't mix on the ATC's for the first few weeks that I had them.

Finally, I had to put a rough mix together, and when I put it on in the car, I was so pleasantly surprised that I played it four or five times. They really gave me a new lease on doing music. Just a really positive experience. I think that what Thrill said is totally true; you don't have to 'learn' them; you just strap in and go.

I only regret that I didn't get them when I started.

D.F. · 11th December 2005

Max, are these ATC 20s the passive ones?

**jayfrigo** · 11th December 2005

ATCs are awesome, and yes, I have used them, but I can't afford my own set of 5 or even 2 either. In the meantime, Quested keeps me quite happy.

James Lehmann · 11th December 2005

I would start investigating PMC Monitors!

Brad Lunde · 12th December 2005

ATC 's are expensive, no doubt. They have the most expensive woofers in the world inside them, which is one reason. They are built in England by hand for another reason. They are air shipped in small quantities to me in the US, another reason (eveyone else sells speakers by the container load). The small meter bridge actives ( The SCM20ASL) are in a CAST aluminum enclosures , 60lbs each. Ridiculously overdone but ridiculously dependable to work on.

ATC's are worth the money when time is hard to come by. The idea that you can find flaws faster is key. There is a direct relation to experience of the user and how much they seem to help that user. The more experience a client has (with monitors of all types) the more likely they are to appreciate ATC. They are not sexy sounding or complimentary. These are audio micropscopes. They sound bad in bad rooms, sound good in good rooms, sound amazing in amazing rooms (like George's). The only speakers that sound good in bad rooms are speakers that have exactly the inverse problem of the room (a bass light room make a bass heavy speaker sound good). And this inverse matching is a total crap shoot, you can never tell and sometimes people just get lucky or never find anything that sounds good-they just live with what they have.

I like how ATC's are upgradeable later and the company does not abandon their designs. Case in point, I am just now working on a Frank Wolf story where his 12 year old ATC 100 actives were just upgraded to the latest model with new SL woofers and a recappng of internal amps. This was remarekably simple to do and he was so happy to not have to go through a whole new speaker purchase.

They are tools, engineers tools, so things like speed of work, flaw ID, work flow, stability of presentation on high level mixes (when the woofers heat up after 8 hours of play) and consistency with its low level mix counterpart all factor in. Theses are not issues that all people value the same. But bit by bit, more and more people seem to understand what ATC is all about.

I will be importing a ATC pro passive 20 now, which looks like I can sell it for about $2500 (vs 5K for the active). Its being developed at the factory right now.

Brad

Matt Grondin · 12th December 2005

Brad, thanks for the reply... I was hoping you of all people would chime in on this thread. By no means was I bitching or complaining about the high price of ATC's... obviously, they are great monitors even though I've never personally used them. They just seem to be TWICE as much as other monitors in similar sizes and I was trying to get a better grasp on why that's so. Thanks for your detailed response.

Brad Lunde · 13th December 2005

Dobby:
I think there's a lot of info to be found here:
http://www.lasvegasproaudio.com/atcstmo.html

Look for the link to WHITE PAPERS where Billy Woodman (owner) talks about his SL drivers. This is one "ATC only" technology that's make his speakers unique in the entire industry. I used to work for JBL and EV both and let me tlel you, its far ahead of the technology that most use. 35dB less 3rd harmonic distortion thatn anyone else in woofer.

Another unique technoloigy is the soft dome mids. ATC developed this, sold many versions of it to two other manufacturers that have been talked about here in this very thread. The idea is to have even mid disperion, not limited (horn) dispersion. The high power soft dome mid remains exclusive to ATC monitors, we do sell a low power version OEM to others.

The tweeters (VIFA) are not unique, many people use them.

The limiters are FET type, so they are fast and about as sonically invisible as any I have heard. I've posted about speaker limiter philosophies before, it can affect the way the speakers sound ina real situation.

Brad

andyspiller · 13th December 2005

I was priveleged to spec a studio in the late 90s for a private client and chose ATC 100a's as they were light years ahead of everything else - I am comparing these (then £6000) to installations of Genelecs at Townhouse, Soho Square (Avex), Olympic and several other top end studios that I remixed at - the ATC is in my opinion the best and most accurate speaker on the market, and just as soon as I can afford a pair. . . . .

11th December 2005	#1
Matt Grondin I like lamp Joined: Jul 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 1,402 Thread Starter	ATC'S overpriced? or appropriately priced? I was just wondering who here, besides George Massenburg and Chuck Ainlay (who have alot bigger gear budgets than I do), has personally used ATC monitors? Sometime in the next 6 months I want to get a kickass pair of nearfields and those ATC's sure look sweet, but they are way out of my price range. Are they overpriced? An alternative that I was looking at would be the Barefoot Mini's, but those are pretty darn expensive too. I have some NS-10's and ADAM ANF 10's right now, but I'm a little burnt on the ADAM sound... they sound great, but I find myself not really enjoying the way they sound sometimes. Maybe that's a good thing though. __________________ Matt Grondin The Parlor Recording Studio New Orleans, LA http://www.theparlorstudio.com http://www.facebook.com/theparlorstudio matt@theparlorstudio.com Follow our build!: http://tinyurl.com/8yzrt8v

11th December 2005	#5
jayfrigo Moderator Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,389	ATCs are awesome, and yes, I have used them, but I can't afford my own set of 5 or even 2 either. In the meantime, Quested keeps me quite happy. __________________ Jay Frigoletto Mastersuite www.promastering.com www.studiometronome.com

12th December 2005	#7
Brad Lunde Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,084	ATC 's are expensive, no doubt. They have the most expensive woofers in the world inside them, which is one reason. They are built in England by hand for another reason. They are air shipped in small quantities to me in the US, another reason (eveyone else sells speakers by the container load). The small meter bridge actives ( The SCM20ASL) are in a CAST aluminum enclosures , 60lbs each. Ridiculously overdone but ridiculously dependable to work on. ATC's are worth the money when time is hard to come by. The idea that you can find flaws faster is key. There is a direct relation to experience of the user and how much they seem to help that user. The more experience a client has (with monitors of all types) the more likely they are to appreciate ATC. They are not sexy sounding or complimentary. These are audio micropscopes. They sound bad in bad rooms, sound good in good rooms, sound amazing in amazing rooms (like George's). The only speakers that sound good in bad rooms are speakers that have exactly the inverse problem of the room (a bass light room make a bass heavy speaker sound good). And this inverse matching is a total crap shoot, you can never tell and sometimes people just get lucky or never find anything that sounds good-they just live with what they have. I like how ATC's are upgradeable later and the company does not abandon their designs. Case in point, I am just now working on a Frank Wolf story where his 12 year old ATC 100 actives were just upgraded to the latest model with new SL woofers and a recappng of internal amps. This was remarekably simple to do and he was so happy to not have to go through a whole new speaker purchase. They are tools, engineers tools, so things like speed of work, flaw ID, work flow, stability of presentation on high level mixes (when the woofers heat up after 8 hours of play) and consistency with its low level mix counterpart all factor in. Theses are not issues that all people value the same. But bit by bit, more and more people seem to understand what ATC is all about. I will be importing a ATC pro passive 20 now, which looks like I can sell it for about $2500 (vs 5K for the active). Its being developed at the factory right now. Brad __________________ TransAudio Group

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11th December 2005	#3
max cooper Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,802	I've been working with my ATC 20's for a few months now. Mixing was the part of recording that I dreaded. I figured that I was just naturally not good at it. I didn't mix on the ATC's for the first few weeks that I had them. Finally, I had to put a rough mix together, and when I put it on in the car, I was so pleasantly surprised that I played it four or five times. They really gave me a new lease on doing music. Just a really positive experience. I think that what Thrill said is totally true; you don't have to 'learn' them; you just strap in and go. I only regret that I didn't get them when I started.

11th December 2005	#4
D.F. Gear addict Joined: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, U.K. Posts: 424	Max, are these ATC 20s the passive ones?

11th December 2005	#6
James Lehmann Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 2,428	I would start investigating PMC Monitors!

13th December 2005	#9
Brad Lunde Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,084	Dobby: I think there's a lot of info to be found here: http://www.lasvegasproaudio.com/atcstmo.html Look for the link to WHITE PAPERS where Billy Woodman (owner) talks about his SL drivers. This is one "ATC only" technology that's make his speakers unique in the entire industry. I used to work for JBL and EV both and let me tlel you, its far ahead of the technology that most use. 35dB less 3rd harmonic distortion thatn anyone else in woofer. Another unique technoloigy is the soft dome mids. ATC developed this, sold many versions of it to two other manufacturers that have been talked about here in this very thread. The idea is to have even mid disperion, not limited (horn) dispersion. The high power soft dome mid remains exclusive to ATC monitors, we do sell a low power version OEM to others. The tweeters (VIFA) are not unique, many people use them. The limiters are FET type, so they are fast and about as sonically invisible as any I have heard. I've posted about speaker limiter philosophies before, it can affect the way the speakers sound ina real situation. Brad

13th December 2005	#10
andyspiller Gear addict Joined: Dec 2005 Location: England Posts: 446	I was priveleged to spec a studio in the late 90s for a private client and chose ATC 100a's as they were light years ahead of everything else - I am comparing these (then £6000) to installations of Genelecs at Townhouse, Soho Square (Avex), Olympic and several other top end studios that I remixed at - the ATC is in my opinion the best and most accurate speaker on the market, and just as soon as I can afford a pair. . . . .