How much should I charge?

Logan Connery · 9th December 2005

Hi my gearslutz friends, I have a question for you!

I recently moved to LA 3 weeks ago and was offered to compose a song for a movie.
This is my first job in the movie industry and I've been hired to write words, create the vocals harmony and sing. There's already somebody writing the music and there's a possibility I can colaborate on it as well.

How much should I charge per song? Again, for singing, composing the vocal's melody and words. Take in consideration that it's an Indie movie and considered Low Budget. I believe it will be distributed in whole US so I'll be getting some compensation on that. If they like my work, I'll probably working in 3 more movies coming with bigger budgets.

So, how much? Is there a standard price?

Thanks!

Jose Mrochek · 10th December 2005

I asked about this a while back, and no I don´t think there is a standard. I think the best move would be to ask them what kind of bugdet are they talking about and see if it makes you happy or not, simple. Again, also consider that since this is your first job don´t go crazy on the price, make them feel as they made a good deal and you should be able to build a solid career, in theory. The price for your music will totally depend on how much the client is willing to pay, unfortunately it works that way. Client sets the price, you either take it or leave it. At the beginning. Then things should change.

cap217 · 10th December 2005

just moved there and already have 4 gigs to do? Did you have them set-up before you moved there or did they just fall into place? How did this happen? And I would give a good deal for the first and let them know that. The best thing to do is ask the budget before, usually the first question I ask!

JB3 · 11th December 2005

Some free advice so be sure and take it for what it is worth...

1. Do not undervalue your creations and contributions...you are creating intellectual property that has a value...it can create the mood and dimension of what is occuring on screen. Your idea of what it is worth and their idea of what it is worth may differ but do not underestimate that it has value.

2. You, as the lyricist, should, unless there is some other determining factor, receive equal compensation with the composer for a given song.

3. Are you (and he) being payed as a 'work for hire'. If so, determine what the composer is being paid for his part and determine an equivalent amount for your contribution. Perhaps this could be determined from the budget set aside for music in the production, then proportionally for your contribution.

4. If it is not being paid as a 'work for hire' you should become very familiar with your publishing and copyright rights. If the budget is very low, perhaps the producers would consider a 'festival license' for your contribution such that if they only play the film at festivals and receive no income for the piece, you receive no income, perhaps just 'credits' in the film. Then continue in your contract that if the film is picked up for distribution that you shall receive a royalty based on the number of screens on which it plays, or a portion of the licensing fees to the syndicator for television, cable or other distribution use.

There are about as many ways to be compensated as there are attorneys...and the more you can stay attorney-free the better off you are, as a general rule.

Hopefully these are a couple of ideas for you to think about before walking in on your exact situation...

A good reference for your copyright protections and rights are available in a quick read at Barnes and Noble and Borders (buy a Latte and read it there if you can't afford it): The Plain and Simple Guide to Music Publishing - Wixen/2005.

Hope this helps...

...J

proxy · 18th December 2005

As JB3 said, I think the work-for-hire issue is probably the thing that would impact your experience with this the most. If you are able to keep it as *your* song (or co-written), then if the movie's a hit and your song becomes the most beloved song in american history, you'll have a pool to sit by. If it is work-for-hire, then you've said goodbye to your composition and any future stake in it, so the payout amount better be worth it.

Hopefully, you can keep the copyright ownership of the song and there will be a nominal fee (which, I believe would be negotiated usually by a publishing company based on the movie's intended distribution, etc.)

I'm not a lawyer, and I often have to brush up on this type of thing when it comes up (Check out Donald Passman's book), but those type of issues are things to look at.

Hope that points you in the right direction...

- proxy

Logan Connery · 19th December 2005

Hi everybody, thanks for all the tips!
Answering how I got the job being in such a short period of time in LA...Well, I moved with a job already lined up in a new company but it didn't work, It turned out to be an unreliable situation... I'm always meeting people and researching in the internet so before I moved, I met a bunch of people online and it turned out that some of them were conected to the music and film industry, coincidence I guess.

I'll be checking my contract tomorow and they will be paying a some cash for 1 song and also, when the movie gets distributed I get compensated too.
If they like the song, I'll be hired to write 3 more for more money.

Like I said, if this project gets done right, I get the other movies too and people keep refering me!

9th December 2005	#1
Logan Connery Gear Head Joined: Sep 2004 Location: New York Posts: 53 Thread Starter	How much should I charge? Hi my gearslutz friends, I have a question for you! I recently moved to LA 3 weeks ago and was offered to compose a song for a movie. This is my first job in the movie industry and I've been hired to write words, create the vocals harmony and sing. There's already somebody writing the music and there's a possibility I can colaborate on it as well. How much should I charge per song? Again, for singing, composing the vocal's melody and words. Take in consideration that it's an Indie movie and considered Low Budget. I believe it will be distributed in whole US so I'll be getting some compensation on that. If they like my work, I'll probably working in 3 more movies coming with bigger budgets. So, how much? Is there a standard price? Thanks!

10th December 2005	#2
Jose Mrochek Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 3,830	I asked about this a while back, and no I don´t think there is a standard. I think the best move would be to ask them what kind of bugdet are they talking about and see if it makes you happy or not, simple. Again, also consider that since this is your first job don´t go crazy on the price, make them feel as they made a good deal and you should be able to build a solid career, in theory. The price for your music will totally depend on how much the client is willing to pay, unfortunately it works that way. Client sets the price, you either take it or leave it. At the beginning. Then things should change. __________________ www.thejoti.com www.myspace.com/thejoti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR116su2Uuo ¨But, then again, I'm British and think you Yanks with your fancy pre for each track are a bunch of weirdos¨ Mark

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10th December 2005	#3
cap217 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,008	just moved there and already have 4 gigs to do? Did you have them set-up before you moved there or did they just fall into place? How did this happen? And I would give a good deal for the first and let them know that. The best thing to do is ask the budget before, usually the first question I ask!

11th December 2005	#4
JB3 Gear addict Joined: Nov 2002 Location: SoCali, USA Posts: 310	Some free advice so be sure and take it for what it is worth... 1. Do not undervalue your creations and contributions...you are creating intellectual property that has a value...it can create the mood and dimension of what is occuring on screen. Your idea of what it is worth and their idea of what it is worth may differ but do not underestimate that it has value. 2. You, as the lyricist, should, unless there is some other determining factor, receive equal compensation with the composer for a given song. 3. Are you (and he) being payed as a 'work for hire'. If so, determine what the composer is being paid for his part and determine an equivalent amount for your contribution. Perhaps this could be determined from the budget set aside for music in the production, then proportionally for your contribution. 4. If it is not being paid as a 'work for hire' you should become very familiar with your publishing and copyright rights. If the budget is very low, perhaps the producers would consider a 'festival license' for your contribution such that if they only play the film at festivals and receive no income for the piece, you receive no income, perhaps just 'credits' in the film. Then continue in your contract that if the film is picked up for distribution that you shall receive a royalty based on the number of screens on which it plays, or a portion of the licensing fees to the syndicator for television, cable or other distribution use. There are about as many ways to be compensated as there are attorneys...and the more you can stay attorney-free the better off you are, as a general rule. Hopefully these are a couple of ideas for you to think about before walking in on your exact situation... A good reference for your copyright protections and rights are available in a quick read at Barnes and Noble and Borders (buy a Latte and read it there if you can't afford it): The Plain and Simple Guide to Music Publishing - Wixen/2005. Hope this helps... ...J

18th December 2005	#5
proxy Gear addict Joined: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 447	As JB3 said, I think the work-for-hire issue is probably the thing that would impact your experience with this the most. If you are able to keep it as your song (or co-written), then if the movie's a hit and your song becomes the most beloved song in american history, you'll have a pool to sit by. If it is work-for-hire, then you've said goodbye to your composition and any future stake in it, so the payout amount better be worth it. Hopefully, you can keep the copyright ownership of the song and there will be a nominal fee (which, I believe would be negotiated usually by a publishing company based on the movie's intended distribution, etc.) I'm not a lawyer, and I often have to brush up on this type of thing when it comes up (Check out Donald Passman's book), but those type of issues are things to look at. Hope that points you in the right direction... - proxy

19th December 2005	#6
Logan Connery Gear Head Joined: Sep 2004 Location: New York Posts: 53 Thread Starter	Hi everybody, thanks for all the tips! Answering how I got the job being in such a short period of time in LA...Well, I moved with a job already lined up in a new company but it didn't work, It turned out to be an unreliable situation... I'm always meeting people and researching in the internet so before I moved, I met a bunch of people online and it turned out that some of them were conected to the music and film industry, coincidence I guess. I'll be checking my contract tomorow and they will be paying a some cash for 1 song and also, when the movie gets distributed I get compensated too. If they like the song, I'll be hired to write 3 more for more money. Like I said, if this project gets done right, I get the other movies too and people keep refering me!