Relab LX480 versus Aether 1.5

[leonardo777]

Relab LX480 versus Aether 1.5
Two great reverb plugins!! What are your opinions when it comes to mixing Pop and Rock and Ballads?
Which is your favorite and why?

[Shy]

I'd wait for the full LX480 version which will have more than just the Random Hall algorithms before making that comparison.

[Andrew Souter]

...and Aether v2.0...

...and Lexicon v5.0...

and everything else in the near and distant future including the real physical model that runs on optical quantum computers...



(I'm sure Martin did a great job in the current shipping version, and I am sure he will continue to improve it even more, and we sincerely congratulate him. But IMHO if we want to compare, we should compare today to today and leave tomorrow to tomorrow... none of us are sleeping... )

That said, I think there are several great options now, and they can all have their place. In the old days we might have a real 480 next to an Eventide, next to a TC box, etc. and the mix was better off by having all these options usually... Just MHO...

[norbury brook]

Andrew I've just bought Aether and I must say you and Denis have done an amazing job

One of the overiding decisions to buy apart from the sound was the fact you've made an x64 version and the copy protection isn't dongled.


I'm about to start mixing a really interesting project and will be using Aether for my reverbs.


MC

[Shy]

Andrew, you know very well that the current LX480 version is a "preview" or "entry" version that's unlike the full featured version (and costs much less). This is not a "v2.0 vs v3.0" matter. "IMHO".

[Animus]

Aether is pretty good and cheaper but consumes a lot more cpu than the PCM or Relab plugs.

[Trebor Flow]

Originally Posted by Andrew Souter

...and Aether v2.0...

...and Lexicon v5.0...

and everything else in the near and distant future including the real physical model that runs on optical quantum computers...



(I'm sure Martin did a great job in the current shipping version, and I am sure he will continue to improve it even more, and we sincerely congratulate him. But IMHO if we want to compare, we should compare today to today and leave tomorrow to tomorrow... none of us are sleeping... )

I think you mean "continue to finish it" LOL

IMHO the thread is pointless until the 480XL is FULLY released.

If the Randon Hall algo is anything to go by ( I bought the 480XL Lite) it will be one heck of a reverb plugin .... well it wil be a 480L .... in a plugin .... bonkers really, when you think about it!

Trebor

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by Animus

Aether is pretty good and cheaper but consumes a lot more cpu than the PCM or Relab plugs.

Aether is taking 1.09% cpu using the sublime Hall preset here on my i7 machine so it's not what i'd call a resourse hog!!



MC

[Animus]

Originally Posted by norbury brook

Aether is taking 1.09% cpu using the sublime Hall preset here on my i7 machine so it's not what i'd call a resourse hog!!



MC

Is that the full quality mode?

[Andrew Souter]

CPU usage in Aether is variable according to:

1) Stereo Modes (Lowest is L-R Mono)
2) Modulation on/off (lowest is Depth = 0.0)
3) Quality settings. (Lowest is option 1 for Oversampling, Modulation, and Interpolation)

Turn these all to minimum settings and CPU usage is actually very low. Start increasing them and it goes up by various amounts. It depends on what you need and can be drastically variable depending on the preset and settings. Our goal with Aether is not to be the lowest CPU usage, but rather to achieve the best sound we know how to achieve at the moment, and we are always continuously researching this and innovating further. 1.5 is not the end. Not even close. But we are pretty proud of it for today.

Additionally we allow you to bypass the entire ER or LR section and remove this from the CPU as well. So you could run several ER instances directly on audio tracks, and and save a few LR instances (heavier on the CPU) on sends if you like...

Martin was asked why he did not allow 96K in another thread. He said b/c of CPU consumption. (For exact words, I think it is in his main product thread?) We offer oversampling. If set to 2x and session SR is 48K, then Aether is running at 96K. If your session SR is 192K, and Aether is set to 4x OS, Aether is running at 768K!! (not recommended BTW tutt ) When comparing CPU usage to another plug Aether oversampling should be set to 1x. For a valid comparison we need to compare "apples to apples".

We are well aware that OS uses a lot of CPU usage, but some people have very fast machines and don't care about this and simply want the best sound they can achieve. So we offer these people the option to use OS. Furthermore, we offer Realtime and Bounce/Offline options. We like options. We don't want to force higher CPU usage on anyone, but at the same time we would like to offer this option to those who have enough CPU power to utilize it in their projects.

Similarly, we have extremely low noise in Aether due to 64bit DSP and other things. If we used lower bit-depth inside the alg we would use less CPU/RAM/Cache, but we would have more noise. We don't think noise is a good thing, and therefore we go to extremes to avoid it. These things use a little extra CPU though. It's simply our design choice.

In Aether we choose fidelity first, efficiency second whenever we are forced to choose. Obviously we want to offer both, but sometimes a choice must be made as is the nature of engineering. Our base quality settings are quite reasonable I think and fairly competitive with everyone else. ...and they were what won us various awards last year. You don't have to "turn it to 11" just b/c we allow it now in v1.5... We give you the option to use what works for you.

[Warp69]

Originally Posted by Andrew Souter

But IMHO if we want to compare, we should compare today to today and leave tomorrow to tomorrow...

I completely agree. I see no reason why anyone wouldn't compared at this stage.

Originally Posted by Andrew Souter

Martin was asked why he did not allow 96K in another thread. He said b/c of CPU consumption. (For exact words, I think it is in his main product thread?)

Correction : We talked about samplerates above 96kHz - 176.4kHz & 192kHz.

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by Animus

Is that the full quality mode?

Thats 2x oversampling in a 24/48 projects


MC

[SWAN808]

Andrew - I think Aether is a great product and I am very happy to see all of 2caudio achievements.
However with all due respect - I think it would be more dignified for you to stay out of threads like this...whether or not you have a point...I think users should be able to chat about plugins without the developer trumping in throwing their weight around-when it is simply a casual question...Ive seen a few too many threads with yourself in alluding to some sort of feud with Martin - and its not great PR to be honest...
I personally think your product speaks enough for itself not to need a large paragraphs worth of defence every time somebody brings up the CPU usage...the fact that it is often compared to Lexicon and Relab plugins is no small achievement...

[Andrew Souter]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Andrew - I think Aether is a great product and I am very happy to see all of 2caudio achievements.
However with all due respect - I think it would be more dignified for you to stay out of threads like this...whether or not you have a point...
I think users should be able to chat about plugins without the developer trumping in throwing their weight around-when it is simply a casual question...

It is still meant to be a casual conversation. My post is not meant to be argumentative. It just seemed silly to suggest comparing something shipping to something in the future. That's all. Sorry if the tone sounded too sarcastic...

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Ive seen a few too many threads with yourself in alluding to some sort of feud with Martin - and its not great PR to be honest...

There is only one thread that I can think of that might give this impression (and I believe it was replaced by a new thread?). We have no feud. There was some confusion previously b/c Martin posted some in Aether threads and it was not clear that he was another developer/competitor and at the time I did not understand the reason for those posts. Now everyone has a signature that says who they are, and Martin and I have since chatted via PM, and there is no problem whatsoever. I am happy for him with his release and have congratulated him previously. L480 is a cool product!

Originally Posted by SWAN808

I personally think your product speaks enough for itself not to need a large paragraphs worth of defence every time somebody brings up the CPU usage...the fact that it is often compared to Lexicon and Relab plugins is no small achievement...

The reason I take time to explain CPU usage over and over again is b/c there is a natural tendency for everyone (myself included) to "turn it to 11" if the option is offered, and we allow "11" to go up much more than is reasonable a the moment, so I feel the need to explain this when I see this topic...

You will not find any interference from me regarding people's preference. I stay completely out of that, as every single person is entitled to his or her opinion...

[gsilbers]

both are very good. The sound varies between them and have a slight difference in sound so just because they are both algo verbs doesn't mean they sound the same or shod be compared to which on is best.
U can download the demo for both so u can compare.

Now in my Personal opinion and how felt was that aether was clearer souding and had a spefiC sound different from other algo verbs, while relab had a more lexicon lush feel. So both very usufull.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Andrew Souter

It is still meant to be a casual conversation. My post is not meant to be argumentative. It just seemed silly to suggest comparing something shipping to something in the future. That's all. Sorry if the tone sounded too sarcastic...



There is only one thread that I can think of that might give this impression (and I believe it was replaced by a new thread?). We have no feud. There was some confusion previously b/c Martin posted some in Aether threads and it was not clear that he was another developer/competitor and at the time I did not understand the reason for those posts. Now everyone has a signature that says who they are, and Martin and I have since chatted via PM, and there is no problem whatsoever. I am happy for him with his release and have congratulated him previously. L480 is a cool product!



The reason I take time to explain CPU usage over and over again is b/c there is a natural tendency for everyone (myself included) to "turn it to 11" if the option is offered, and we allow "11" to go up much more than is reasonable a the moment, so I feel the need to explain this when I see this topic...

You will not find any interference from me regarding people's preference. I stay completely out of that, as every single person is entitled to his or her opinion...

There are sometimes silly comments around here but the crowd is smart and they are spotted generally without the need for the developer to become involved. Its nice to have developers around and you comments may be intended to be casual but it feels a bit oppressive to me - personally Im not sure you should be chiding a user with sarcasm.

Ive seen a thread here 'bantering' with Martin and also on KVR - where the sentiment appeared strained.

Im sure its difficult to have a presence and not get defensive in these forums having put your heart and soul into the product...

[Andrew Souter]

Hi Swan808,

I apologize that you interpret my post this way. This is certainly not the intention. I think if you read the vast majority of the posts I make here and on KVR etc. you will find I care a lot about our users and go to great lengths to help them with whatever they need at all hours of the day or night...

You are right, Aether/2CAudio is a passion business for me (and Denis). We love what we do and would do the same thing for free (and have for many years). Aether is our first child and it is slightly challenging not to become overprotective of it sometimes in case of misunderstandings.

Additionally, sometimes I feel like the president of the hair-club for men. You know, the "Not only the president, but also a client" ad?? I am an active composer/producer/engineer/sound-designer as well as running Galbanum and 2CAudio and I use all of my own products regularly. And I also use a bunch of other 3rd party products. Sometimes i speak for 2CAudio, and sometimes I speak for Andrew as I enjoy participating here and at KVR and VI-Control. Sometimes, they get confused as I am only human.

[jamesclarke40]

Aether Kicks, my favourite along with EOS and lex bundle

[feck]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Andrew - I think Aether is a great product and I am very happy to see all of 2caudio achievements.
However with all due respect - I think it would be more dignified for you to stay out of threads like this...whether or not you have a point...I think users should be able to chat about plugins without the developer trumping in throwing their weight around-when it is simply a casual question...Ive seen a few too many threads with yourself in alluding to some sort of feud with Martin - and its not great PR to be honest...
I personally think your product speaks enough for itself not to need a large paragraphs worth of defence every time somebody brings up the CPU usage...the fact that it is often compared to Lexicon and Relab plugins is no small achievement...

So, rather than have the actual developers elucidate exactly what their products were designed to excel at, you would rather have less knowledgeable users discuss (and more often than not, hypothesize about) the strengths and weaknesses? Isn't that like seeing a doctor and asking for a patient in the waiting room for a diagnosis rather than the doctor?

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by feck

So, rather than have the actual developers elucidate exactly what their products were designed to excel at, you would rather have less knowledgeable users discuss (and more often than not, hypothesize about) the strengths and weaknesses? Isn't that like seeing a doctor and asking for a patient in the waiting room for a diagnosis rather than the doctor?

No - you have mis-understood my point and now I am forced to dredge it up again seeing as you chose not to read and understand my posts properly.

I enjoy the presence of developers around here and deeply respect their work - especially in the reverb field. But this is Gearslutz - a generalised user forum - I think they must walk a fine line in terms of how they represent themselves otherwise risk spinning negative PR. It is not always easy Im sure to maintain this - but certainly gents like Martin and Sean Costello do it with class. Once you create a product and carry a signiture - in this forum - you become 'a developer' in people's eyes - you are a businessman whatever the inner conflict. I dont think developers should be jumping into threads mocking GS users and becoming defensive about their products - which seems the sentiment on this occasion (and Ive seen others hence my comments) - even if the original question was a little silly. Developers can let us be the judge of what is silly as there are plenty of smart people around here.

We are not in the doctors surgery right now - this is more like Moe's Tavern



Inevitably there are a few 'Barneys' around here but I would not expect a doctor to immediately jump in and take the mickey out of Barneys bar-chat. Yes perhaps I am being outspoken about this on this occasion - but I reserve the right to defend the authenticity of this user area rather than fawning over developers just because of their mere presence.

...and Aether v2.0...

...and Lexicon v5.0...

and everything else in the near and distant future including the real physical model that runs on optical quantum computers...

Yes it may be mild but only the 2nd post BAM the developers in - that looks more like a sarcastic remark than 'eludicating what his product was designed to excel at'...I dont think I would see Martin or Sean chiming in like this, and as Ive said earlier - this isnt the first time Ive seen this - hence my comments on this occasion. You may or may not agree with me - but this is the point I wanted to make.

[Andrew Souter]

Swan808,

While I don't agree with the severity of your summary, and I feel some of your facts are a little misguided or at least biased or selective, you offer a few good points which I will take into consideration. Thanks for the input.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Andrew Souter

Swan808,

While I don't agree with the severity of your summary, and I feel some of your facts are a little misguided or at least biased or selective, you offer a few good points which I will take into consideration. Thanks for the input.

Thats good enough for me - thanks for addressing me on this Andrew.

[saovi]

I don't get that Aether is heavy on resources even in obsession mode. Mac Pro 8-core 2.26 Nehalem Xeon. I know of no history between these developers and frankly don't care honestly. The bottom line is that I love both plug-ins - own both and use both - and regardless if that is sacrilege or not is of so little consequence to me personally. If it sounds good it is good. Therefore use the tools you want to use. Competition is fine imo because it seems that the end result means better products.

[AcoosticZoo]

Andrew, In offline mode do you think Aether can be developed to create a realism that approaches the level of a Bricasti M7?

@op, I think aether is trying to render realistic reverbs, whilst lx480 is a faithful recreation of the 480L (a 1:1 replication/digital model)

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

[HomeProducer]

Hm since Breeze I haven't used Aether a single time.

Aether could be improved to sound more "juicy" or something.
Can't describe it ...