Getting Started in an LA Studio <rant/advice sought>

[SpeedKing9]

Hi all. Some of you may have known that I had a record coming out next year (produced by Gary Katz, mixed by Hugh Padgham at Electric Lady). Unfortunately, due to ****ed up politics and other nonsense, the owner of my label decided to drop us pretty much right before the release date! Everything, and I mean everything was pretty much set to go; mind you, this was done right in the middle of doing our artwork with Hugh Syme!!

So, unfortunately, due to an overwhelming number of problems and just jaded sense of reality, my career as a musician kind of went down the tubes, though unofficially. That said, I'm still interested in the music process, and that if perhaps I wasn't cut out to be an artist, I would like to be on the production side of things. Here's my next little rant..after calling several studios in Los Angeles, they all told me I needed to be a graduate or at least enrolled in recording school for them to even consider me as an intern. An intern who gets food, winds cables, and is basically the artist's and producer's bitch (I know because I was in those shoes at Electric Lady!)

This is discouraging, so I'm just seeking some advice or even some insight into this. I understand that it's a long road, and for the most part a very closed business, but I'm certainly interested and I sure as hell learned a lot from Gary producing and Hugh mixing (which is why I'm so interested in the first place). Unfortunately, my main experience with recording is my own thing with Cubase and barebone materials, though I like to think I have a decent ear for this kind of stuff.

Any words would be appreciated, as it's a pretty shitty feeling to get dumped.


BTW, if you're interested at all, http://www.myspace.com/drivingforcerocks is our music. /rant

[jchadstopherhuez]

i feel for ya bro....been through it all several times....know the feelin really...

if you want to stay in the game...its pretty simple...stay in the game...dont give up...

my only advice can be work your ass off....i am 34...was signed and dropped from 2 labels by the time i was 26...toured, met some cool folks...some of my friends became big rockstars....none of them are anymore...well, maybe 1 or 2...but alot of them are VERY unhappy....the biz has changed...and it changes you...

i just love music...so here i am...after being on the other side as a musican..i learned how to make records...thats what i do...still not easy...but movin up all the time...

i never went to school for this...i should say, i never paid for school...i LEARNED alot from alot of people...i spent most of my time and money doing this...bought gear...started with a mackie and an adat...actually with a fostex x28 4 tracker...and have been through lots of gear, lots of rooms, lots of work...and time..recorded my own bands...then found others...some even started paying me...i speant unheard of amounts of time figuring out how to do this...always used my ears...got advice, read everything i could, pestered any audio engineer/producer i could fine...then did my own thing...i recorded hundreds of crappy bands...and a few good ones...after a few years...my recordings actually started sounding like records....i got a reputation of making kick ass records with a freakin mackie and an adat....then i started making $$$, and kept upgrading my gear, but also my ears and skills....now i feel like i make really good records, and i am lucky enough to get to work with some really talented musicians and bands...

5 or 6 years into doing this..i do it full time, all the time.... i have a modest room with a trident 80, studer, neve, api and daking gear...lots of toys, lots of instruments, a growing reputation, and lots of cool memories...oh, and lots of bills...but that gets figured out somehow...in the middle of it all, i met my soulmate who happens to be a singer...pretty cool gig...i make records, sometimes it sucks...its always way more work than most people could imagine...but man is it a cool job !!!!!!

one thing i can say is that if you have a passion and a drive....you can do it....i personally never went the audio school interning route...but who can say that would not work...it has for a lot of people...my honest opinion is that all that matters in this business is that you love what you do, show up on time, work your ass off...and things will happen...

good luck to ya...btw...dig the band, and consider yourself pretty lucky to get where you are now...working with people like hugh, wow !!!

best of luck to you.....always remember the love of music...that will keep you goin..

regards,

j

[RCM - Ronan]

When I did the intern hiring for a larger studio several years ago, we actually saw recording school as a negative, becuase the stereotype is the graduate that thinks he has paid his dues becaues he has gone to school. One thing that seems not to get taught in recording schools is the people skills of how to operate in the biz.

Are you calling smaller studios looking for internships? There are tons of studios that would love free labor.

If you are thinking of getting into this biz, I will give one simple bit of advice: If there is anything else in the world you could do and still be happy, then go do that. Its insanely hard and getting worse everyday. You need to be in it only for the need to be making records, because you will most likely work 7 days a week just to be poor. Thank god I am a bit older and managed to get a good reputation before the competition got too insane.

[jomo1234]

Bravo Mixerman....excellent advice!!

It's a very depressing situation indeed, but don't be too hasty giving up your music. Were you on an indie or major label? You might be able to get the rights to your recordings and shop it to another label.

I've been recording records and running a large indie label for over 15 years and it's never been an easy business....but if you keep pushing you can make it. Don't give up on the dream!!

[SpeedKing9]

It was on an independent label with big distribution (Universal for national, Road Runner for international). An artist you might've heard of on the label is Sevendust.

We are shopping the master, but it's pretty slim. There are a lot of other band politics involved consisting of relocation (we formed at a college campus with a dead end original scene) and millions of other typical band issues.

[jomo1234]

Ahhhhh so you were dropped by Steve Gottlieb! I've never heard a nice thing about that guy.

Is your lawyer doing anything to get the masters back???

[SpeedKing9]

Actually, no, Sevendust WAS signed to TVT but moved over to WineDark.

[jomo1234]

I love the label's mission statement....talking about honesty and ethics. What BS. When your label is run by a lawyer, be afraid, be very afraid!!

[SpeedKing9]

Oh yeah, the company is about as shady as it possibly gets, no exaggeration. They are about the complete OPPOSITE in everything they say and embody in that mission statement of their's. I wish I could expose them for the real bull$hit that went on; I could seriously write a 1,000 report on the events that took place before my record even came out (all production expenses, etc.)

You wouldn't believe some of the stories I've experienced with them.

[jomo1234]

Don't let those a**holes ruin it for you. Unfortunately it's an all too common story. I know it's demoralizing, but keep plugging away.

[aintnosunshine]

This is interesting as a number of people have recommended me to NOT go to an audio engineering school. Reasons usually included "nobody cares if you have" and "you don't learn anything there." Everybody says to go intern in a studio instead!

Hum.....

[kats]

after calling several studios in Los Angeles, they all told me I needed to be a graduate or at least enrolled in recording school for them to even consider me as an intern.

Right, but what do you expect them to say over the phone? Come start on Monday? The line they're giving you is a brush off. They have no clue about you or how serious you are, so odds are they're wastng their time. The line about enrolling in school is to show that you are serious and not some kid with a fantasy. So you either go to school, or network yourself into a position with someone that takes you serious.

My advice is to make a resume and read it. Does your resume say to a stranger that you may have potential? If so, start pounding the pavement. If not, be honest with yourself and see where you need to improve and do it. School might very well be helpfull.

[kats]

PS, being dropped by a label is a hell of alot better than a label having no interest in you. Are you sure your not selling yourself short? This business ( or any business for that matter) is filled with success stories that were built on a foundation of failures.

[softwareguy]

I would at least try approaching Hugh or Gary about being references for you. You don't have to ask them to find you a place or even write a rec. Just ask if they would be willing to take a call from a studio and talk about working with you on your project. If they're comfortable with it, they'll almost certainly say yes, it's not a big time-waster for them. Put them in your resume, and more importantly, in your cover letter and/or phone pitch and mention that they're your references. That's a hell of a lot more impressive than being one more talentless drone whose desparate parents are paying for recording school because junior refused to go to trade school to be a plumber or electrician.

They could say no, but what the heck. Like everything worth having in life, you never know until you ask.

[Bob Olhsson]

Having been dropped by a label before they had their first hit is one of very few things most successful artists have in common!

Be persistent! There's always a shortage of good people.

[cletus]

I got an internship at Studio D recording walking in off the street. I had a brief but very pleasant chat with the assistant engineer who recomended me to Joel Jaffe and just off the initial impression I made, got my self an internship. I learned alot while I was there but am finding I am still able to learn alot on my own doing my own music. I think if you really want to spend your time making other people's dreams and visions a reality, and that likewise is your dream and passion, then you should go for it. I don't think it necessary be a Recording School grad. Just find a few places you really like and get to know the engineers and other interns and keep hounding them till someting opens up. Guess who they'll be calling when that Recording School Grad decides to quit cause he's gonna take his parents money and go to cooking school now.
Besides learning how to work in a studio I also learned alot about myself. I learned that I am a musician first and foremost and that will always be #1 over engineer. Whatever you are passionate about is what your heart is calling you to do cause you have something valuable to offer to that particular place in life. You just gotta ask yourself what is your true passion and the rest will take care of itself. Either way do not give up on your own music. You've gotten this far so don't give up even if you decide to start engineering too. I know alot of one time musicians turned engineers that wish they still had the time and drive to do music like they record and mix all day long.
Good luck to ya and keep us posted on your happenings!

[stevep]

SpeedKing9 I would like to be on the production side of things. Here's my next little rant..after calling several studios in Los Angeles, they all told me I needed to be a graduate or at least enrolled in recording school for them to even consider me as an intern. An intern who gets food, winds cables, and is basically the artist's and producer's bitch (I know because I was in those shoes at Electric Lady!)

You can always come and help me...... thumbsup

I only have 188 sheets of drywall left to hang, 4 12" double walls, semi truckload of acoustical treatment, 7 doors, 1800sqft of wood flooring, electrical, hvac, lights, 4windows, commission all the gear and 25.000 ft. of audio cable to run.


Can you solder?

If not you can come and help when thats all done

steve

[Jules]

If you bypass traditional internship IMHO the only avenue open is for you to buy yourself a studio and voilla! - you are instantly a producer / engineer.



But I would contact the poster above if i were you.

Also - search the keyword "Intern" (do a general search and also search in thread tirtles only) there is a wealth of info on this site about this very topic.