Why don't they release the KM84 again?

[Marjan]

"The KM 183 and KM 184 microphones are the successors of the well proven KM 83 and KM 84, which have been used since the seventies worldwide with great success."

"Although the KM 184 has the same capsule as the KM 84, the microphone differs slightly on the 0° frequency response: The KM 184 has a gentle rise at about 9 kHz, a characteristic that was introduced very successfully with the KM 140. The result is a tonal balance that is fresher and livelier when compared to the KM 84 with its flat frequency response in that band."

---

Do the Neumann guys know there's so many people looking after the KM84? ...and actually paying $2000 or more for a matched pair, which in my opinion is outrageous for what's inside...

Why the hell don't they release the 84? Or even the 84 instead of the 184...! I thought they'd want to make money...

I'd like to ask them these questions, but they don't seem to provide a damn contact on the website. Only the distributers...

[PRobb]

I use the 184 all the time and it's a real nice mic. But when I get a chance to use 84s it's a real treat. Interesting that they talk about off axis response because the big difference to me is the 84 is more 3D. It just sounds deeper. Awesome as a room mic.

[max cooper]

When I was looking around, I noticed that there were a good number of 84's around. I suppose there were a lot of them in use back in the day, no?

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by max cooper

When I was looking around, I noticed that there were a good number of 84's around.

Where about? I can't find many actually...

[wayne mox]

Why the hell don't they release the 84? Or even the 84 instead of the 184...! I thought they'd want to make money...

I'd like to ask them these questions, but they don't seem to provide a damn contact on the website. Only the distributers...

Because if they still made KM84's and the KM184 never came into production, people would be starting threads like this one with the title "Why don't they update the KM84 with something not so dull and boring?"

Like so many classic mics, people tend to hear what they believe. In other words, if you believe the KM84 is a beautifully 3D microphone unsurpassed in it's class, then that's exactly what you'll hear when you record with the KM84.

If you believe the KM184 is hyped and artificial sounding, then that's exactly what you'll hear when you record with the KM184.

NEWS FLASH: I prefer the KM184 over the KM84 in nearly every circumstance for what I do. Wow... amazing isn't it...

[warhead]

Because they're not the same company anymore?

War

[James Lugo]

I wonder the same thing. I have a pair of KM84i's. They are heaven on overs.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Marjan

Why the hell don't they release the 84? Or even the 84 instead of the 184...! I thought they'd want to make money.

First off, the 84 has an output transformer, the 184 is transformerless... there is your tonal difference, and is also the coffin nail that prevents the reissue of the 84... transformers are expensive.

So let's move you to a nice corner office in Sennheiser World Headquarters... you have a mic model called the KM-184 which is selling quite nicely... why would you want to have a microphone that is more expensive than the current model competing with the current model?

You have your assembly lines set up, your client base extends way past the music recording industry... and none of the other customer base besides a small minority of "studio recording guys" are grumbling for KM-84's... and the majority of new recording guys don't even know what a KM-84 was so the KM-184 is great to them and is a proven seller [remember... you're not an end user, you're in a corner office]... what would make you want to fukk with a good working formula?

[dokushoka]

For its transient response alone, the km184 deserves respect.

[Telecastr]

It's unfortunate, but well said, Fletcher.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Marjan

Do the Neumann guys know there's so many people looking after the KM84? ...and actually paying $2000 or more for a matched pair, which in my opinion is outrageous for what's inside...

Why the hell don't they release the 84? Or even the 84 instead of the 184...! I thought they'd want to make money...

What would you expect to pay if they re-released it?

A pair of KM184's runs around $1.5K street price correct?

A reissued pair of KM84's would have to be more than that don't you think?

You'd be looking at close to $2k anyway and that would just force the prices of the original higher cause you know here on Gearslutz the original is always better.

[Meriphew]

I have a stereo pair of KM-184's that I really like on acoustic guitar for my dense mixes. I've never used a KM-84 before, so I don't know what I'm missing I guess. If I were recording solo acoustic instruments, I might have to seek out a nicer set of SD mics, but I never do, so for now the 184's work nicely for me.

[kosi]

Yeah, if they do something, Neumann should instead reissue the U64 (KM64). These are one of the finest small condensers I ever heard. It's basically a KM84 with a tube !
Yummi

[mischultz]

Well, for one thing, it might put a damper on my angst-ridden keep/sell dilemma. I've got three KM84is that could probably finance two pair of Josephsons or a pair of Gefells and an additional pair of something practical. If anyone could get them anytime, I'd have nothing to fret over...

Michael

[beats workin']

i have a pair of 184s that i never use anymore- terrible sounding mic. i replaced them with a pair of gefell m300- wonderful. i've used 84s a lot and they really are much much better thatn the 184. it's not about nostalgia. it only takes one listen.
in general, i think the transformerless mics neumann has been putting out are nearly useless as a whole (tlm103 anybody?). good thing there are lots of other choices.
david

[wayne mox]

Originally Posted by beats workin'

i have a pair of 184s that i never use anymore- terrible sounding mic. i replaced them with a pair of gefell m300- wonderful. i've used 84s a lot and they really are much much better thatn the 184. it's not about nostalgia. it only takes one listen.
in general, i think the transformerless mics neumann has been putting out are nearly useless as a whole (tlm103 anybody?). good thing there are lots of other choices.
david

Are you interested in selling those terrible sounding mics?

[beats workin']

hi wayne,
i haven't used the mics in years- if you're interested, pm me. maybe it's about time.
david

[insomnio]

Sorry for the same question again...,
In the search for a current similar to the km84 mic, is the M300 the closest one?

____________________________
Insomnio

[Fletcher]

I think the Josephson C-42 is probably a bit closer than the M-300... but the M-300 is a damn fine mic in it's own right.

[jbuntz]

How about why don't the re-issue the U47, 47FET, M49, M50, U67 and KM56? Or even better, why not put the U87 back to original spec?

I just used the 184's as overheads because the schoeps (I think I finally learned how to spell that) weren't around and the songs seemed to uptempo for the Coles to work and I'm kicking myself for it. The KM184's sound a bit like chinese mics to me. I actually dug the way the snare sounded better on the 184's but the cymbals kinda hurt to listen to. Maybe if I dip out some 9k with the new Sontec they'll sound fine.

[wayne mox]

Do we really want something like this re-released into the world community?

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by jbuntz

How about why don't the re-issue the U47, 47FET, M49, M50, U67 and KM56? Or even better, why not put the U87 back to original spec?

I just used the 184's as overheads because the schoeps (I think I finally learned how to spell that) weren't around and the songs seemed to uptempo for the Coles to work and I'm kicking myself for it. The KM184's sound a bit like chinese mics to me. I actually dug the way the snare sounded better on the 184's but the cymbals kinda hurt to listen to. Maybe if I dip out some 9k with the new Sontec they'll sound fine.

Often, a shelf pulling down a db or so starting in the upper mids will make the km184 much less strident.

[kosi]

Originally Posted by wayne mox

Do we really want something like this re-released into the world community?

Idiot

[wayne mox]

Originally Posted by kosi

Idiot

******.

[zimv20]

stop it. you're making jesus cry.

[wayne mox]

Originally Posted by zimv20

stop it. you're making jesus cry.

Aww heck, I'm just stooping to Kosi's level for calling me an idiot for my llittle KM86 edit up there, not being able to take a little joke about the KM86 looking like the german M24 hand grenade, potato smasher, whatever you wanna call it. I have KM86's and love em, apparently kosi is a little sensitive about his Aryan ancestry.

[kosi]

Yeah guys, I'm sorry, I don't get the fun in sticking a Neumann batch on a handgrenade.
What that supposed to mean ?
Maybe Wayne Mox can explain this to me.
Otherwise, think, at least a little bit, before you put things like this up here.

[paterno]

Does it bother anyone else besides me that the 184 doesn't have a -10 pad, like the 84? I like 184's on softer acoustic things, but I can't use them on drums at all -- they just crap out...

John

[84K]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

I think the Josephson C-42 is probably a bit closer than the M-300... but the M-300 is a damn fine mic in it's own right.

Great points throughout this thread Fletcher!

Actually, regarding the KM84, I think 50% of its hype is merited and the other 50% is based on the fact that they are no longer in production.

They are good mics, but they are not some 'amazing one-of-a-kind mic that 'has no equal.' In fact, I'd bet my shoes that a Josephson e22s could perform any given recording task better than the KM84. The only thing that make the KM84 so special, is that it is ‘sweeter’ sounding then is sibling, the KM184. Not that big a deal in the grad scheme, but to some, YMMV. Shoot it out with an e22s and then see how much you care about it. Again, YMMV.

[wayne mox]

Originally Posted by 84K

Great points throughout this thread Fletcher!

Actually, regarding the KM84, I think 50% of its hype is merited and the other 50% is based on the fact that they are no longer in production.

They are good mics, but they are not some 'amazing one-of-a-kind mic that 'has no equal.' In fact, I'd bet my shoes that a Josephson e22s could perform any given recording task better than the KM84. The only thing that make the KM84 so special, is that it is ‘sweeter’ sounding then is sibling, the KM184. Not that big a deal in the grad scheme, but to some, YMMV. Shoot it out with an e22s and then see how much you care about it. Again, YMMV.

People hear what they believe

This is my self proclaimed slogan I tend to propogate, but think. If you believe the KM84 is the best mic, then that's exactly what you'll hear when recording with it.

There are congregations of people who have never heard a U47, never worked with a U47, never even been in a the same room with a U47, yet they've collected enough experience and BS on the various forums and lists to sing in unison to how fabulous the U47 is. (ok maybe it *is* a great mic, but one of the exceptions to the rule). But it gets the point across.

What's happening for one thing is the KM84 prices are starting to go higher and you'll see this reflected on Ebay and such. I recall less than a year agao you could find KM84's for $500-$600. Lately I've seen them hit upwards of $1000 for just *one*. Did the KM84 suddenly sound better over the last year? Naw, I would blame this price increase on increased spew from the mouth of know-it-alls on our beloved forums here and there.