Tuff Choice - Replace BM6A with: BM15P; LSR6328 or TB2S?

[acoustic_kid]

Hello All, Happy Holidays!

I've been working with the Dynaudio BM6A for some time now but I need more.
My room is treated with real traps and is approx: 14x20. The BM6A's are great but when pushed hard the bottom breaks up.

I'd like to move on to a different set of monitors and have narrowed down my choices to the following on about a $1700 budget:
BM15P with Hafler P4000 (P due to budget)
JBL LSR 6328
PMC TB2S with power amp (which amp?)

I'm swaying toward the BM15P but I'm concerned that the 10" woofer won't give me the midrange I'm accustomed to.

Any of you guys ever have the opportunity to hear or work with the above monitors?
Which pair would you use for all acoustic music mixing?

[DrDeltaM]

You can only decide for yourself on this one. FWIW, I went for PMC TB2S-A (the active version with Flying Mole amps) myself.

Btw, Hafler is out of business, tho you can probably score a Hafler amp somewhere still in stock or 2nd hand.

[daaronhoffman]

Have you thought about adding a sub to your BM6As to take the load off them?

Aaron

[chriscoleman]

I used the BM15p's with a Hafler 9505 (their top-of-the-line amp) for about a month and hated them. Crunchy, narrow, thin - and no, they weren't broken. My room is treated and sounds decent, but I just could NOT get used to the passive BM15's. I have not tried the BM15A's.

I was tempted to keep the 9505 and try the TB2+'s, but after going through a few other passive monitors (BM15p, NS10, Truth Audio TA-1P), I came to the conclusion that my ear leans toward active/biamp monitors.

So, I tried the LSR6328 and they just "fit" right away. Great monitors and the Room Mode Correction circuit is interesting.

[mltamisin]

Likewise, go with a biamped monitor. Just sounds best. What about a sub?

[James Lehmann]

Don't get me wrong, I love the TB2's but I don't think they will represent a significant enough upgrade over your BM6's if what you seek is more bass at louder volumes - my feeling is you will need substantially larger monitors or a system with an integrated sub.

[acoustic_kid]

Good points, thanks! I had no idea Hafler went out or business, I may have to rethink my plan.

Any one else have any negative or positive experiences with the BM15's? The JBS seems to offer the best bang for my buck at this point. I will think about a sub but that pretty much puts me over budget - I figured I'd get about $1200 for the 6'A's and I have about $600 cash... putting me in the $1700-$1800 category +/-.

[R. Hanson]

I bought a pair of BM 15P's a couple of years ago. The studio I work for already had some good amps (Hafler 9505, Yamaha 2200 w/mastering lab mod) so I thought that would save me some money. After trying the amps I had at my diposal I was ready to send the speakers back until another engineer w/ BM15's told me to try a Crown Studio Reference amp. It made a world of difference and I had to buy the speakers and the amp. I don't know what a used Crown would go for, but I'm sure they're out there. I would also try a Bryston amp if you can find one.

Best of luck

[robdarling]

I can't speak for the PMC's in this respect, but one thing I will say is that both the 6328's and BM15a's require a sizeable room or an extremely good, as in incredibly well-desgined and controlled, small room, in order to sound good. They both deliver the bottom octave in a much, much larger dose than the BM6A's, and you will hate them if the room can't take it. You will also need very good stands or a serious meter bridge to mount them on or the low end will smear and boom all over the place.

After that, you couldn't have a more different set of choices.

If you tend to have problems that your mixes come out dull or not enough mids, I'd go with the 6328's- they are naturally rounder in the highs/mids and will lead you to brighter mixes. If your mixes are too bright or midrangey, go toward the PMC's or Dyn's, they will lead you smoother.

If you have issues with having too much low end stay away from the PMC's. The 6328's would lead you to tighter mixes, since the have a big round low end.

At the end of the day, it is more about how you hear than anything.

[Pomello]

I have a pair of BM 15 As,they need a quite powerful amp capable to handle their low impedence (Bryston).A big improvement over BM6.

[Rodney Gene]

I think the 6328's are just perfect for my small room...
Clear top end and upfront low end...

Super pleasant and no surprises...

I keep them on buckshot filled stands.

Super pleasant...

[squeegybug]

I owned the BM15p and TB2+ at the same time, and compared lots of material on them.

Dynaudio bass is good, but so is the PMC. I preferred the smooth transmission line bass sound from the TB2+ over the ported "whoofy/thumpy" sound from the BM15p.

The Dynaudio do not have anywhere near the midrange resolution of the PMC. There is an audible hole in low mids in the BM15p when comparing directly to TB2+. And the purity of the PMC midrange just has to be heard to understand it, it's quite a three dimensional projection.

Treble is cleaner and less fatiguing on the PMC.

I don't agree with the comment about needing larger size for more bass -- I've measured the TB2+, they will produce audio to 30 Hz, although of course at reduced output. Basically flat down to 40-50 Hz, depending on your room modes. But of course if you need 40 Hz at 110 dB you need some supplement.

PMC was more sensitive to amp and cables. I chose McIntosh MC225 and Tara Labs Prism (the old ones). Kubala-Sosna also makes great cables that work for a little brighter sound on this setup.

Carver m1.5t is my second choice in good sounding amps with these speakers. Those are the old Stereophile challenge amps that Bob Carver built to run against some Levinson monos. They sound great for my needs, but do have the (very low level) standard "t" series transformer hum, may not work for the quietest of studios.

I tried some older MOSFET Haflers, did not care for them, too soft. Don't know about the newer ones. Tried a few transistor amps but didn't like that too much either.

Steve

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by acoustic_kid

about a $1700 budget

I would say it would be well worth adding the Bluesky System One to your audition list based on the needs you've described, the size of room you have and the budget. The fully active, sub+satellite BlueSky systems seem to me to be extremely good value and they sound darn good too!

I have the smaller ($1000) ProDesks in a room a bit smaller than yours and they give me more than enough power already - and because it's an integrated sub the low-end is never strained or over-powering.

As previously mentioned, I used to have a pair of TB2's and I fully agree with "squeezybug's" perceptive comments above about the quality of PMC boxes. If I had had a much larger budget and a better room I'd almost certainly still be with PMC, but right now the Blueskys made a lot of sense for me, both financially and spatially, and I am still very pleased with what the ProDesk system gives me for the price.

[jayman]

The JBL 6328's have changed my mixing world completely. I'm finally getting the low end right on my mixes. I stepped down (only in price) from adam P33A's to these and I just can't believe the difference. I can't say enough about these monitors.

I really do think that a big part of monitor selection is how the speakers interact with your room, and maybe the Adam's just weren't a good fit for my room, because they really should be better monitors since they are so much more money.

The room mode correction thing is really a nice little thing to have IMO. It works very well, and I think it would tighten up the bass and help with correction in any room. And, for me it wasn't so drastic that it made all other places in the room sound bad.

FWIW,

j

[disco2k3]

I've used BM15p with a Hafler P4000 for the last three years. That combination offers plenty of juice. I've never compared them to another speaker in my room, but I can say that they have worked very well for me. I've found that the bass is a bit tubby and it takes some getting used to, in a funny way it helps me get the bass in my mixes tight. The highs don't seem fatiguing to me, but I never really monitor very loud, they are definitely less fatiguing than Mackies. I feel that they accentuate harsh treble, in a way thats revealing not annoying. There seems to be something a little funny happening at the crossover, but its never been a problem. They may not be the most linear monitors, but I personally like the way they sound and have been getting good results after I "learned" them. Like others said, you should have a well treated room to use 15s, especially in the low mid/bass department.

[acoustic_kid]

To throw a wrench into the works has anyone had any luck with the "Shiny" Event ASP8's?

From the looks of the posts and the poll the BM15 probably won't cut it. So far, the JBL 6328 seems to be the winner. I want to make the right choice so I'm keeping an open mind and will not make a hasty decision.

Any more insight is welcome!

[jayman]

I had the events, and there was something weird about them. They seemed smeared to me in all frequencies. Lots of guys like them though, and they're a little less money. The JBL's kill them though in my opinion.

j

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by acoustic_kid

To throw a wrench into the works has anyone had any luck with the "Shiny" Event ASP8's?

I never used them in my space, but when I auditioned them in a monitor-packed room, they where underwhelming. Smeary, phasey, weird. HOWEVER - you never know who sets up that wall of monitors or if it's wired correctly, etc.

All things being equal - out of everything I auditioned there (which wasn't a huge selection), the KRK V8 series II monitors surprised me. I was about to try them out at my place before I got the 6328's. Now I'm not so worried about trying anything else.

[jbuntz]

The ASP8's are okay. They look nice and would probably make great home stereo speakers. I enjoy the 6328's. I came from the HR824's which I was never totally satisfied with. The top on the 6328's is less fatiguing, the mids are more focused and natural sounding. It's not disorienting switch between NS10's and the JBL's but it is very disorienting to switch between NS10's and HR824's. Now if we could get some replacement parts for the NS10's.

[acoustic_kid]

Okay, make like I didn't inquire about the ASP8...

Looks like the 6328 has taken over in the poll department and many here appear to be pleased with them. I'll try to audition a pair!

[jayman]

I don't think you'll be sorry if you end up with the JBL's.

j

[acoustic_kid]

Yeah probably not but now they have the LSR4328P's and it's making me nuts deciding.

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by acoustic_kid

Yeah probably not but now they have the LSR4328P's and it's making me nuts deciding.

I just heard those yesterday and they'd make a nice travel counterpart to the 6328's, but not a replacement in the studio. However, the 4300 series is TONS cheaper - in price and component quality. Not the same tweeters, woofers, or amps. Really not even close to the same boxes...and the built-in meters sort of annoyed me.

-Chris

[thenoodle]

............Yeah probably not but now they have the LSR4328P's and it's making me nuts deciding.....
--------------------------------------------------------

The 4328s are a smaller system compared to the 6328's (ie...less power and headroom) . The 4300 series has a more involved room correction thing, rudimentary time alignment, and digital input ....stuff that now that I've seen it, is sort of borderline gimmicky. And definitely aimed at guys who are going to buy a set of 5 up front for surround.

Ah...but the 6328's. Yep, they're the ones! I've been talking these up around here for the past year. They're just fantastic. They are so easy to set up for weird room conditions. I've listened to everything out there and nothing compares by a long shot.

You can stick the 6328s in intolerably small spaces (check out the video demo on jbl's site) ..or great rooms. I stuck a pair in a 22 x32 control room a couple of weeks ago and ran the rmc. Huge room peaks between 45 and 65hz (to be expected) After running the rmc calibration, the 6328's are flat within a db or so all the way across the spectrum (well, the rmc spectrum anyway). Nothing hyped in the sound. So nice. At whatever volume you want.

I keep stalling in getting the 6312 sub because I get such great, reliable low end all the way down into the 30hz range. The first time I ran the rmc test tones and they got down into the lower tones, I had to blink, thinking I must be hearing a 15" sub somewhere in the room.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

I've listened to everything out there

Wow, that would be a lot

Steve

[acoustic_kid]

Okay, looks like I'm back on the 6328 kick, the 4328's are too new and too questionable.