Recording engineers vs Mixing engineers

[cc1]

Allot of music production today has engineers on the recording side -and a different group on the mixing side. Has this always been the case? -or was there a transition to this type of production? when? kind of like pitching in baseball: years ago pitchers would throw a complete game every time -today if a pitcher gets into the 7-8th inning he's done and someone else comes in to finish...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by cc1

Allot of music production today has engineers on the recording side -and a different group on the mixing side. Has this always been the case?
-or was there a transition to this type of production? when? kind of like pitching in baseball: years ago pitchers would throw a complete game every time -today if a pitcher gets into the 7-8th inning he's done and someone else comes in to finish...

It was not always like this.

Some people note Bob Clearmountain who also happens to be terrific at doing both.

[djui5]

There's still people who do both.

They're called "producers" these days.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by djui5

There's still people who do both.

They're called "producers" these days.

Yeah that's like handful don't you think?

Nigel Godrich comes to mind.

And our moderators this month.

But he's right in one way, one guy starts and another guy finishes is the norm.

Or the guy who starts finishes and the A&R at the label decides he need a "name" in there to get the radio station to play it so he has the new guy remix the whole thing.

[dolo]

i used to do both quite well. but then i saw that the industry was move towards that as the norm about ten years back so i decided to focus more on tracking. i acatually find more satisfaction tracking than mixing. but don't get me wrong, i still mix very well. i just track better.

[djui5]

He is right

I was sorta kidding. Making fun of "do it all producers" that seem to be popping up everywhere these days.

"I'm producing, recording, mixing this entire record, and writing drum parts, then actually playing drums and bass on the album! Who cares who plays bass on the record anyway?"


Good thing for mixers like us though, is that a lot of people do use a mixer who didn't record the material. I think it brings a lot to the table, unless your mixer sucks...then, well, you've got problems.

Me personally, I'd much rather mix than track.

I'm willing to bet in a few years the A&R guys will start mixing records, maybe mastering too...haha!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by djui5

I'm willing to bet in a few years the A&R guys will start mixing records, maybe mastering too...haha!

Well hopefully that will be us right?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by dolo

i ued to do both quite well. but then i saw that the industry was move towards that as the norm about ten years back so i decided to focus more on tracking. i catually fine more satisfaction tracking than mixing but don't get me wrong, i still mix very well. i just track better.

With me it was the opposite.


I have no patience when it comes to dealing with musicians.

So by the end of the projects we can't stand each other.

So coming in on the end makes it easy because there is no history to re-hash over.


Its basically "just do what you do man".


Its a day or two and we move on with our lives.


NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!


But nowadays that everyone has a DAW in their homes its getting frustrating again.

People want to edit every little thing and try to fix every little nuance.

And don't even bring up doing a bunch of recalls!!

"Why can't it be done?" "I can do it easily on my computer?"

Its part of the reason i mix on analog.

The one thing it makes people do is decide or commit.

The bigger the mix, the longer the recall takes, the less patience people have.

So they commit and live with it.

But a mix that should take a day turns into a couple of days which prolongs the agony.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by djui5

He is right
"I'm producing, recording, mixing this entire record, and writing drum parts, then actually playing drums and bass on the album! Who cares who plays bass on the record anyway?"

That makes me think of Ethan Johns..Glyns' son..
can pretty much do it all..from tracking to mixibg..Plays all sorts of instruments...Great drummer as well
And he has all of his pop's amazing old gear in his place too.[I'm Just a jealous Bastard ]

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by djui5

He is right

I was sorta kidding. Making fun of "do it all producers" that seem to be popping up everywhere these days.

"I'm producing, recording, mixing this entire record, and writing drum parts, then actually playing drums and bass on the album! Who cares who plays bass on the record anyway?"

...How dare anyone be talented or experienced enough to do that...!!

Actually some people enjoy the creative process in all of those areas...and ...they are often the best choice for the job.

And then you have those who argue that the individual processes 'suffer' because someone is wearing too many hats...then the flip coin is that the person enjoys wearing the hats and can pull it off because love it, they are skilled and they are happy with the results ...but someone then complains or argues that the individual process suffers because someone is wearing too many hats...

...then the flip coin is that the person enjoys wearing the hats and can pull it off because love it, they are skilled and they are happy with the results...but someone then complains or argues that the individual process suffers because someone is wearing too many hats...

...then the flip coin is that the person enjoys wearing the hats and can pull it off because love it, they are skilled and they are happy with the results...but someone then complains or argues that the individual process suffers because someone is wearing too many hats...

I personally wouldn't ever discourage anyone wanting to experience the process of several creative roles if they had a vision and the moxy to see it through There is just too much talent in the world....(despite the sentiments of some)

If you do use outside help you better find the right folks for you....I have recently had material mixed...and material mastered by 'professionals' in thier field...it was a genuine waste of time and cash. All of it needed to be redone and taken to someone else or do it ourselves to get it done right.

The bottom line for me is that there just isn't one right way to do anything...and if you are locked into a set of unmoldable standards you will suffer in your rigidness and find yourself with less clients and less options.

I eat at home everday for all meals because I love my own cooking and most restaurants fall short of my expectations... I know just how much seasoning I like.

But on occassion I want something unique or something I can only get from an outside cook of another's experience.

Sure there alot of 'do it yourselfers'...but I wouldn't judge too harshly Randy, this is a small world bro and there is a ton of cool folks in it.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

...How dare anyone be talented or experienced enough to do that...!!

Actually some people enjoy the creative process in all of those areas...and ...they are often the best choice for the job.

And then you have those who argue that the individual processes 'suffer' because someone is wearing too many hats...then the flip coin is that the person enjoys wearing the hats and can pull it off because love it, they are skilled and they are happy with the results ...but someone then complains or argues that the individual process suffers because someone is wearing too many hats...

...then the flip coin is that the person enjoys wearing the hats and can pull it off because love it, they are skilled and they are happy with the results...but someone then complains or argues that the individual process suffers because someone is wearing too many hats...

...then the flip coin is that the person enjoys wearing the hats and can pull it off because love it, they are skilled and they are happy with the results...but someone then complains or argues that the individual process suffers because someone is wearing too many hats...

I see your point.

I personally wouldn't ever discourage anyone wanting to experience the process of several creative roles if they had a vision and the moxy to see it through There is just too much talent in the world....(despite the sentiments of some)

I agree, but not all at the same time. "don't bite off more than you can chew", "My eyes are bigger than my stomach"
I have seen it many times, producers trying to do too much at once. It's a lot of work to focus on production (even if you've done proper pre-production) in the studio while doing all the Engineering, then mixing the record (a lot of producers are great at mixing, I'm not discrediting them), and even possibly mastering it too? Then I've seen some play parts on the record, re-write songs or re-arrange songs. They don't just do it on one session, but every record they deal with. It's sickening to me personally. It's one thing if your doing everything in your bedroom studio making demos or getting started, but making professional records this way? I disagree. It's too much work and one looses focus on the important things. I personally think it does more harm than good.

Then it gives this "producer" leverage for not only his producer points, but engineering fee's, mixing fee's, songwriting credits and mechanical royalties, publishing rights, studio rental fee's if the producer owns his/her own studio, storage fee's, mastering fee's. See the greed? That's what annoys me. It's just plain greedy.

I can understand the love and passion for the industry. I have it too. I'd love to play drums, play keyboards, play percussion and bass guitar, record and mix, and be a producer on top of owning my own studio. For God sakes, find a place and stick your butt there. There's no way I could do all those tasks, and do them at my best. I don't see the sense in half assing something just to get a lot accomplished. Not only is it bad for me and my stress level, but it DOES NOT serve the client/record well in the end.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we need someone to do every little nitpicking thing in a studio. A band, a producer, an Engineer and his assistant is all you really need to make a record. I never fully understood the Pro-Tools op position as the Engineer should be ample for this task, but whatever. It's a throwback to the old tape-op position which is somewhat understandable.

If you do use outside help you better find the right folks for you....I have recently had material mixed...and material mastered by 'professionals' in thier field...it was a genuine waste of time and cash. All of it needed to be redone and taken to someone else or do it ourselves to get it done right.

This happens, quite often in this industry, and it's always sad to hear about it.

The bottom line for me is that there just isn't one right way to do anything...and if you are locked into a set of unmoldable standards you will suffer in your rigidness and find yourself with less clients and less options.

I agree entirely. Breaking the mold if envigorating and advances technology, techniques, and the human race entirely. What I'm talking about is taking on more of a workload than one person should, not whether that person should pursue alternative avenues of work. I think it's great to "explore your options". I certaintly have done my fair share of different job titles. Cook, drywall finisher, painter, auto-mechanic, building computers, building web-sites, playing instruments, handyman duties, and now I'm a Recording/Mix Engineer. I found that focusing on one thing, and doing that one thing the best you can is what works for me personally.

I eat at home everday for all meals because I love my own cooking and most restaurants fall short of my expectations... I know just how much seasoning I like.

But on occassion I want something unique or something I can only get from an outside cook of another's experience.

Sure there alot of 'do it yourselfers'...but I wouldn't judge too harshly Randy, this is a small world bro and there is a ton of cool folks in it.

There are a ton of cool folks in it. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just making a point. I think it would serve the industry well if these "do it all" people focused a little more on one or 2 tasks at a time. Who is really benefiting from someone who does everything on a record? Certaintly not the artist or the album IMO. It's all about the producer doing it. It's their "big night on the silver screen".

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by djui5

I see your point.

I agree, but not all at the same time. "don't bite off more than you can chew", "My eyes are bigger than my stomach"
I have seen it many times, producers trying to do too much at once. It's a lot of work to focus on production (even if you've done proper pre-production) in the studio while doing all the Engineering, then mixing the record (a lot of producers are great at mixing, I'm not discrediting them), and even possibly mastering it too? Then I've seen some play parts on the record, re-write songs or re-arrange songs. They don't just do it on one session, but every record they deal with. It's sickening to me personally. It's one thing if your doing everything in your bedroom studio making demos or getting started, but making professional records this way? I disagree. It's too much work and one looses focus on the important things. I personally think it does more harm than good.

Maybe we aren't talking about the same here? You seem to be 'upset' or disgruntled about any one persons 'strong headedness' or ego getting in the way of the project vision...and sure that is easily understandable. I am talking about one person successfully producing, playing and engineering to a large degree on a record. Most definitely different topics.

Then it gives this "producer" leverage for not only his producer points, but engineering fee's, mixing fee's, songwriting credits and mechanical royalties, publishing rights, studio rental fee's if the producer owns his/her own studio, storage fee's, mastering fee's. See the greed? That's what annoys me. It's just plain greedy.

Again...you seem to be talking about greed and ego here Randy, ...not passion, neccessity or skill. They are as far apart as vanilla and chocolate.

I do know artists that do it all...and damn well...yes they earn every point that they keep. That should be encouraged, not frowned upon.

I can understand the love and passion for the industry. I have it too. I'd love to play drums, play keyboards, play percussion and bass guitar, record and mix, and be a producer on top of owning my own studio. For God sakes, find a place and stick your butt there. There's no way I could do all those tasks, and do them at my best. I don't see the sense in half assing something just to get a lot accomplished. Not only is it bad for me and my stress level, but it DOES NOT serve the client/record well in the end.

My Goodness...that is way too many assumptions happening here...it is insulting to call something half-assed if it is genuine. Just because you don't hire a decorator to furnish your house doesn;t mean your own tastes are 'half-assed'...it just means you like your own taste and don't feel a need for a decorator...
Who cares if a room full of decorators don't approve of the way your room looks??

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we need someone to do every little nitpicking thing in a studio. A band, a producer, an Engineer and his assistant is all you really need to make a record. I never fully understood the Pro-Tools op position as the Engineer should be ample for this task, but whatever. It's a throwback to the old tape-op position which is somewhat understandable.

IMO, you need what you need. And there is no way of knowing what that is until you need it...

This happens, quite often in this industry, and it's always sad to hear about it.

Yes...live and learn.

I found that focusing on one thing, and doing that one thing the best you can is what works for me personally.

The key thing here is the 'works for me' part. You may only be comfortable engineering / mixing...that is cool. Some other folks are comfortable doing many things.. niether way is 'best' as history has shown over and again.

There are a ton of cool folks in it. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just making a point. I think it would serve the industry well if these "do it all" people focused a little more on one or 2 tasks at a time.

Why? Because you assume they will be able to do those fewer tasks better? That has no merit, only judgment.

That is only an another assumption..and it also assumes that when say a bassist decides to play drums or a producer decides to lay down the guitar parts...that he is doing it without focus or intention... That somehow they are doing it 'half-assed'...or worse that somehow the 'quality' was diluted...Why assume that? Because it isn't YOUR path?

Who is really benefiting from someone who does everything on a record? Certaintly not the artist or the album IMO. It's all about the producer doing it. It's their "big night on the silver screen".

Sounds like a huge chip? I encourage you to loosen the reins a bit...

The people who benefit are the people involved in the record...
Geez...It is crazy and mostly just arrogant to assume an artist doesn't benefit from thier own experience of recording an album...That doesn't make sense in the least...because that assumes you..yourself... know what is best for the artist...in every situation. Cmon'..

In my experience if the artist is happy, then nothing else ever matters. If the artist isn't given the respect they deserve...(and that includes how and why they chose to record) they don't expect any respect from them. This is nothing but partnerships...and you Randy can't possibly know the whole story in any situation but your own..

Let me quote Al Schmitt from earlier this month. This is truly the same sage advice to apply to every player in any situation.

Originally Posted by Al Schmitt

People who put down other peoples work usually are very insecure, most of us don't know the problems the engineer faced on the project. He could have been told to do things he wouldn't normally do, or bad musicians or bad accoustics. All of us have C Ds that we are unhappy with one way or another. I don't think I have ever made a record that I've been totally happy with. So remember if you can't say anything nice about a project keep you mouth shut. Al

Cheers.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

Maybe we aren't talking about the same here? You seem to be 'upset' or disgruntled about any one persons 'strong headedness' or ego getting in the way of the project vision...and sure that is easily understandable. I am talking about one person successfully producing, playing and engineering to a large degree on a record. Most definitely different topics.

Again...you seem to be talking about greed and ego here Randy, ...not passion, neccessity or skill. They are as far apart as vanilla and chocolate.

Greed and ego come with the territory. I'm not discussing an artist who does all their own work. That's one thing and I don't have a problem with it. What I disagree with is outside producers doing this. Not a member of the band. Chris Walla produces all of Death Cab For Cutie's stuff, and plays drums on the records, and for all I know mixes the stuff too. Their new single I heard on the radio the other day is f'n amazing. It's great to hear such creative music on the radio again, instead of the polished, slammed to death rock that's been dominating airwaves for the last couple years. I'm all for it IF it's the artist doing it.

I do know artists that do it all...and damn well...yes they earn every point that they keep. That should be encouraged, not frowned upon.

I agree, see above

My Goodness...that is way too many assumptions happening here...it is insulting to call something half-assed if it is genuine. Just because you don't hire a decorator to furnish your house doesn;t mean your own tastes are 'half-assed'...it just means you like your own taste and don't feel a need for a decorator...
Who cares if a room full of decorators don't approve of the way your room looks??

IMO, you need what you need. And there is no way of knowing what that is until you need it...

I'm not assuming anything. I'm speaking for experience that I've witnessed first hand. I've also talked to numerous artists/assistants/engineers who've seen the same thing. Some producer comes in to work on a record, and takes over the whole thing. They're really controlling over the artist and from what I've heard/seen the artist is usually unhappy with the outcome and experience in the studio.

The key thing here is the 'works for me' part. You may only be comfortable engineering / mixing...that is cool. Some other folks are comfortable doing many things.. niether way is 'best' as history has shown over and again.

I agree, and never said what works for me should work for everyone else. It's also true that one person can only handle a certain amount of workload at a single given time. I'm discussing my disagreement of certain work practices shown by producers these days. I don't have a chip on my shoulder, just stating my disagreement with work practices. I've also seen the counter effects and reasoning behind such work habits. It's not always pretty.

Maybe sometimes it works out for an artist. Maybe sometimes a producer records the record, plays instruments on the record, re-arranges songs, re-writes song parts and get's songwriting credits for it, then mixes and masters the album (I'm exagerrating a little bit, but not much), and that works out great. But from what I've seen and discussed with others, most of the time this isn't the case.

Why? Because you assume they will be able to do those fewer tasks better? That has no merit, only judgment.

No, it's not judgement, it's fact that our brains can only process so much information and our bodies can only handle a limited workload at any given time. People are constantly pushing this limit. It's also fact that when most people are focused on a given task, versus multiple tasks at once, they perform better.

My point, is that it's quite difficult to engineer, produce and assist yourself all at the same time. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not the only person who feels this way, and I share my feelings with not only other engineers and the like, but artists as well.

That is only an another assumption..and it also assumes that when say a bassist decides to play drums or a producer decides to lay down the guitar parts...that he is doing it without focus or intention... That somehow they are doing it 'half-assed'...or worse that somehow the 'quality' was diluted...Why assume that? Because it isn't YOUR path?

Again, I'm not assuming anything, but speaking from experience. I'm not talking about a producer playing the occasional drum part, or doing some engineering once in a while, or mixing a record, but rather doing it all, all the time.

The people who benefit are the people involved in the record...
Geez...It is crazy and mostly just arrogant to assume an artist doesn't benefit from thier own experience of recording an album...That doesn't make sense in the least...because that assumes you..yourself... know what is best for the artist...in every situation. Cmon'..

In my experience if the artist is happy, then nothing else ever matters. If the artist isn't given the respect they deserve...(and that includes how and why they chose to record) they don't expect any respect from them. This is nothing but partnerships...and you Randy can't possibly know the whole story in any situation but your own..

Sure, if the artist is happy, then so be it. From what I've seen, this isn't always the case. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite most of the time.

An artist will always benefit from a session, if at the least they learn a lesson on how improperly a session can be handled by one person. I never said I know what is always best for a perticular situation, but that I do know that trying to do everything at once helps no-one in the end.

Let me quote Al Schmitt from earlier this month. This is truly the same sage advice to apply to every player in any situation.

Cheers.

Al's quote does not apply here. I'm familiar with it and share the same belief. I'm not speaking out of insecurity as you imply, but from experience. I'm also only stating a disagreement with certain work habits. Take it for leave it.

[Rodney Gene]

Ok Randy as far as the first 3/4 of your last post I catch your drift...and the topic isn;t really the same. I understand you don't like the idea of a 'producer' taking control..and I agree. I don;t know anyone with even a slice of dignity to disagree..

But for these...

Sure, if the artist is happy, then so be it. From what I've seen, this isn't always the case. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite most of the time.

And why does it continue to happen?

It is always a partnership...always. I get the impression that you honestly believe there is some kind of 'mind-meld' going on here where the producer 'tricks' the artist into some direction that they would never want to go...and at the end of the day the artist is left broke and empty while the producer is laughing all the way to the bank...

Ha...I just don't agree... You more often see the same artists with the same producers..

Shoot...also look the response from GML about Joshua Judges Ruth and his relationship with Lyle...
Who was the vicitm there? (not that anyone was a victim)

Communication can be challenging...and keeping the artists best interest in mind, maintaining confidence and at the same time trying to avoid big mistakes (because the artist has a wild hair) isn't always cut and dry...

I give that respect to anyone in this...

Al's quote does not apply here. I'm familiar with it and share the same belief. I'm not speaking out of insecurity as you imply, but from experience. I'm also only stating a disagreement with certain work habits. Take it for leave it.

Your work habits aren't in question bro...I have nothing but respect for you and I hope we can work together sometime...

However..Al's statement is as valid here as anywhere...You can't always know why a 'producer' does what they do. You don't know the challenges they are up against...this particular gig, the budget, the rooms, the musicians, and most important the artist and what they expect...
You might get 1/2 into a project and the artist changes thier mind, or wants something new, or wan't to re-do vocals, or this or that or etc...

There is just too much in any one situation to judge what is right, wrong, common and otherwise..

Obviously we all know what we we would PREFER to see happen and how we would prefer to work...but that ain't the reality.

Not to mention...the 'changing' of the guard so to speak. The rules have changed...the game is not the same... it is still evolving and with a few simple searches here on GS you can get everyone's perspective on the subject as this subject is not fresh...


Cheers and Respect Randy...

[bunnerabb]

I do 270 live shows a year.

I track remotes and mix records ITB and OTB.

If your ears work, there's not a lot of barriers. I do prefer mixing to tracking.

[indie]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

If your ears work, there's not a lot of barriers.

exactly
thumbsup

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

And why does it continue to happen?

It is always a partnership...always. I get the impression that you honestly believe there is some kind of 'mind-meld' going on here where the producer 'tricks' the artist into some direction that they would never want to go...and at the end of the day the artist is left broke and empty while the producer is laughing all the way to the bank...

Ha...I just don't agree... You more often see the same artists with the same producers..

I don't know why it happens more than once. Sometimes the artist does a record, and decides to find another producer for the next one, sometimes they go back. I'm not them though, so I can't say

It's not just a money thing also, although thats frustrating too. I guess I just wish everyone had the same views as me..haha! Then the world would be boring though..so that's out of the question.

Communication can be challenging...and keeping the artists best interest in mind, maintaining confidence and at the same time trying to avoid big mistakes (because the artist has a wild hair) isn't always cut and dry...

I give that respect to anyone in this...

Agreed. It's easy for things to get out of hand before someone notices or say's anything.

Your work habits aren't in question bro...I have nothing but respect for you and I hope we can work together sometime...

Thanks, and I feel the same for you.

However..Al's statement is as valid here as anywhere...You can't always know why a 'producer' does what they do. You don't know the challenges they are up against...this particular gig, the budget, the rooms, the musicians, and most important the artist and what they expect...
You might get 1/2 into a project and the artist changes thier mind, or wants something new, or wan't to re-do vocals, or this or that or etc...

There is just too much in any one situation to judge what is right, wrong, common and otherwise..

Obviously we all know what we we would PREFER to see happen and how we would prefer to work...but that ain't the reality.

Not to mention...the 'changing' of the guard so to speak. The rules have changed...the game is not the same... it is still evolving and with a few simple searches here on GS you can get everyone's perspective on the subject as this subject is not fresh...

You're right. I'm not always there and don't always know what happens. I just wish people wouldn't act like this. I'm not everyone though..so again, the whole world can't feel the same way I do..haha!

Cheers and Respect Randy...

dido.


1 more post and your at 666 posts...muahhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by djui5

dido.


1 more post and your at 666 posts...muahhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Oh geez...this whole last had me fn' spilling shit all over the keyboard...I can't stop laughing!!




"....Ruuunnnn tooo the hiiiiilllllllss"" Runn foror your llliiiifffee"....

Cheers bro.

[skygod]

Originally Posted by cc1

Allot of music production today has engineers on the recording side -and a different group on the mixing side. Has this always been the case? -or was there a transition to this type of production? when? kind of like pitching in baseball: years ago pitchers would throw a complete game every time -today if a pitcher gets into the 7-8th inning he's done and someone else comes in to finish...

Webster Online:

Main Entry: 1en•gi•neer
Pronunciation: "en-j&-'nir
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English engineour, from Anglo-French, from enginer to devise, construct, from engin
1 : a member of a military group devoted to engineering work
2 obsolete : a crafty schemer : PLOTTER
3 a : a designer or builder of engines b : a person who is trained in or follows as a profession a branch of engineering c : a person who carries through an enterprise by skillful or artful contrivance
4 : a person who runs or supervises an engine or an apparatus

Mechanical: Requires MS in Mechanical engineering

Design: Requires MS in Electronic engineering

Aerospace: Requires MS in Astrophysics engineering

Engineering Technology: Requires MS in Technological engineering

Electrical: Requires MS in Electrical engineering

Mechanical: Requires MS in Mechanical engineering

Civil: Requires MS in Civil engineering

Pro Audio: Recording/Tracking or Mixing Engineer came from the motion picture industry. Educational requirements include a certificate of completion, or OJT, or AAS or BS in Audio something. So all are all technically ‘technicians,’ because there is really no such thing as a ‘Pro Audio Engineer.’ Just another bloated industry made-up anomaly, because folks don’t like to be considered ‘technicians.’ And the term producer? That came from the motion-film industry as well. I guess it doesn’t bode well on the credits at the end of a movie to have been ‘recorded, mixed, and mastered’ by Joe Shitthetechnician Devry AAS/BS graduate lol.



~skygod~

[dbbubba]

I have to say that it is almost always the label people that want to jack with stuff and do things like have Mr. Cookie-cutter mix a project.
They just want a feather in their cap.
Justification for being promoted from the mail room.

Zero artistic vision beyond selleing a bunch of CDs or what-ever.

Everyone wants to have THAT SUCCESSFUL SOUND, but doesn't it just make everything sound pretty much the same?
I mean sure, some guys like the Lord-Alge Bros. make things sound like "records" but it is all kinda' the same sounding.
The personality gets sucked out a bit.

Going back to the record biz people...
In all of my years I have met only a VERY small handfull of label people that were in the same league musically as most of the people I know.
They just always seemed like a band member's relative who sold insurance who came by to visit a studio session.
Their "suggestions" were almost always arrogant and out-of-step with what was going on.
Often it seemed like they said stuff because they felt that they should "contribute" or "call some shots."
Things like "turn the kick drum up one db."
"Do you like compression on the vocals?"

Granted there are talented people with a artistic vision, but more often than not it was always, "Is that F*CKER gone? Is he out of the building? Warn me before he comes back. Man! I need to take a break now."

Of course, as a band you feel that you have to follow their lead and be the good label band.

I once worked with a group that "played the game" with a major label up until shortly after the record was finished.
It was the shittiest sounding example of the band ever put to tape, but it was too late.
The steam-roller was chugging along!
It probebly could have been mixed by someone better than the "name" guy that produced/engineered the whole thing.

After the record came out the band a had a hit with a bullet on Billboard, so that kept everyone playing along.
After a few videos that cost a ton and which MTV barely played the band started realizing that the folks in L.A. were groping in the dark.
The band decided that they were just going to be themselves and this freaked the label out.
The label folks were in L.A. and had no idea what the reaction was to the band's true sound/show. In the end a great band was just lumped in with a bunch of other lesser bands and it all faded away.

Labels don't always make the greatest decisions with the material that they have in front of them!