Warming the warmth? How much euphonia can you take?

[Jules]

I dunno.....

Presently I mix using the Tape & Pentode process of the Cranesong Hedd on my mix A/D. (I've weaned myself off it on the recording / tracking side)

Then I may add futher 'enhancing' with the Sony Dynamic plug ins 'warmth' function during my own mastering

(Sometimes a little TC Electronics 'Digital Radiance Generater' gets in there too)

So that is two or three times I suppose....

How often are YOU warming the warmth?

[jazzius]

a can of (warm) worms, this one.....

.......maybe we first need to define "warmth" (yeah, right!)

Distortion?

bass?

any device with the word "warm" im its name?.....PSP Vintage Warmer.......Drwarmer DS201 gate?

[covert]

Originally posted by Jules
How often are YOU warming the warmth?

Depends. I prefer to start with fire, and then not need additional heat.

[Jules]

.......maybe we first need to define "warmth"

Any device / effect / trick / plug in to cheer up digital audio

OK?

Running through say, telefunken line amps would count for example or via tape,

[jazzius]

for me, the main element that gives warmth is the way the frequencies are sitting in the track....

......specifically the bass end of the spectrum..........and particularily how the bass is sitting in things like the vocal, guitars, keys or anything else in the midrange.....

...giving these elements enough bass is key (2 me) to warmth...

..also making sure there is good sub-bass (circa 50hz) is important........anything on top of this is a bonus.....

[jho]

I also use the HEDD but unlike Jules I prefer it in the tracking stage, therefore I can reserve it for the instruments of my choice instead of the mix buss blanket statement. Of course HD sounds better than mix so that could also come into play. I Love it on lead vocals to set them apart. I'll dial in different settings with diff. mics for diff. singers. I really don't like too much of the HEDD effects dialed in during mixdown; it seems to blur things too much for me. I like a little....like somewhere in the 1-3 settings but that's about it.

My main way to get warmth in PT is to avoid boosting many frequencies. I cut cut cut wherever I can and reserve that space for who needs it. Sony Oxford EQ, filterbank and Ren EQ mostly.

Since digital is so accurate it seems like there can just be too much sound. The clarity and low end warm really comes from separating those bad boys.

I used to use analogue channel alot, but I've really cut back. Maybe I'm not worried about warmth as much because I'm getting better sounds on 'tape'...

[nkf]

Originally posted by jazzius
a can of (warm) worms, this one.....
.......maybe we first need to define "warmth" (yeah, right!)
Distortion?

Exactly ... I guess that people are talking about a lot of different things. IMO all this 'warmth' blahblah started as tries to cover the faults of early digital implementations for certain production needs. Now after years it's purely ideology and a gigantic sales pitch for the industry. The more analog - digital hybrids/transfers exist the more people are trying to cover the problems with more 'warmth'.
And maybe simpler ... a lot of people coming from the analog world never felt really secure in digital. (?)

So I don't use any of these 'warmth' thingies ... but I don't know if the WAVES Renaissance series fall for some guys into this category.

[Gie-Sound]

Originally posted by nkf
So I don't use any of these 'warmth' thingies ... but I don't know if the WAVES Renaissance series fall for some guys into this category.

I like to use Tube-Compressors some times... I use it when it sounds good or at least cool, but some people may accuse me of "warming the signal".... I don't know?!

[jho]

Originally posted by nkf
Exactly, IMO all this 'warmth' blahblah started as tries to cover the faults of early digital implementations for certain production needs.

I definetly was covering far more brittle digital sounding faults on my mix/888 setup than HD.

Originally posted by nkf
but I don't know if the WAVES Renaissance series fall for some guys into this category.

The Ren EQ is definetly colored, not in a bad way but man...since Sony EQ (I can't stop raving out it) it's not getting used much...

[bassmac]

Warming devices can mask some of the brittle sound you get from bad math, but I don't think it's as needed once you get into the better systems.

IMO, there's a fine line between warmer and duller. And if you find yourself adding lots of HF to a mix - you may have crossed that line.

[RKrizman]

Lawson 47 to Phoenix DRS-2 to Cranesong STC-8 to HD 192. What's not warm?

-R

[jho]

Originally posted by RKrizman
Lawson 47 to Phoenix DRS-2 to Cranesong STC-8 to HD 192. What's not warm?

-R

thumbsup

[Mike Tholen]

I using these TAB U73b's for most warming/distortion duties, not on the mix though, unless ofcourse it calls for it.
and My best warming device is a pair of Studer J37 1" 4 track tube tape monsters.

[Coldsnow]

QUOTE
"Lawson 47 to Phoenix DRS-2 to Cranesong STC-8 to HD 192. What's not warm?"

Yea, L47Mp to Phoenix to Cranesong. To make it even better run your recorded vocal signal line out from your recorder to the Phoenix mic input, engage the pad, and crank the gain to about 30-35db and set the output as desired, then run to your mixer. I think the Phoenix is even better the second time around. Sounds awsome.

[Renie]

I feel like I've got devices tempting me with their warmth all over the place.

It makes me nervous.

I know it's 'faulty thinking' but I tend to think of anything emulating tape (which is what this warmth industry is based on eh..) as a cop out of some description that will enchant my sounds but with a price.

The price is a 'smudging' effect and the delusion that the sound was OK to start and just needed 'warming'. Maybe.

There is something about the 'warming' concept- I can't quite see it as a legitimate effect, it makes me think 'something's wrong', which is not how I see any other kind of digital processing..

I do use them.

[Your Add Here!]

I've been getting mine by tracking through a Manley tube preamp and the Meek SC2 compressor. This signal path always sounds "warm and focused" to my ears.

Than I use the DUY tape plug in PTs. Deductive EQ.

I'm pretty satisfied with the sonics. I'm not one who sees much of problem these days on this subject.

Finding great songs, performance and a budget - that's another issue.

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by Coldsnow

Yea, L47Mp to Phoenix to Cranesong. To make it even better run your recorded vocal signal line out from your recorder to the Phoenix mic input, engage the pad, and crank the gain to about 30-35db and set the output as desired, then run to your mixer. I think the Phoenix is even better the second time around. Sounds awsome. [/B]

Thanks Cold, I'm gonna try that. Into the mic input, not the DI? Hmmm. Are you doing this in a +4 system?

-R

[jmusic3]

I often like to send something through a Massive Passive to boost the highs then send it through a FATSO to keep the boost from being fatiguing. This combo is Frickin' Amazing! From there I occasionally may use DaD Tape to mildly tame the highs a little further. I also use AC-2 on my master fader.

-John

[NathanEldred]

I'm at a very happy place to be with the sounds I'm getting. I like things to be "tepid" I suppose. They aren't so warm that the highs are muted (as if the whole recording was ran through a bandpass filter) or distortion is obviously dripping off the recording, but they aren't so clean that things don't come off as being rich sounding. I'm a spoilt gearslut though, I definitely have strong opinions about what I think is shit, just "ok", and really great. I'll tell you what though, I'm really over a lot of vintage pieces. I think new designs from guys like Dan Kennedy and Dave Hill have moved us into the future and into a selection of gear that allows, at least me personally, to get what I'm looking for without much effort at all. There is a lot of multiple generation refinement going on in a handful of new designs, instead of only holding a candle to the past.

[Jules]

Interesting isnt it?

The combos used...

Right now I am sending my analog mix through

Cranesong STC-8
Cranesong Hedd @ 96k 24 bit Tape & Pentode each at 7
Finalizer adding touch of DRG (2)

My mix is flipping the Foofighters "Monkey Wrench" the bird. As I A/B using the toggle switch on the DAC-1



But I know if I switch any of the above out, I will be unhappy, they are ALL playing their part.

Within my mix I have used the Sony Dynamic plug in to tame a cold metalic snare sample...

[jho]

Originally posted by Jules
Within my mix I have used the Sony Dynamic plug in to tame a cold metalic snare sample...

What do you think of it Jules? Will it make me as happy in land as the Sony EQ did in frequency land?

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by RKrizman
Thanks Cold, I'm gonna try that. Into the mic input, not the DI? Hmmm. Are you doing this in a +4 system?

-R

So I tried it, and the results weren't what I would have expected. The tone became brash and on the verge of distortion--very transistory sounding, for lack of a better word. Tried it in the DI and got less of the same, a little easier to control. Could be useful for highlighting a track or adding aggression, but very different from the warm L47/DRS-2 combo that was already there.

Maybe I need to run it through a Fatso now! <g>

Anyhow, thanks for the idea.

-R

[Jules]

The Sony Dynamic has about the best quick release action of the PT plug ins, and the Warming fuction is excelent...

More Euphonia for your Euro!

Very cool for use in Mastering!

[littledog]

My variation of the Lawson "warmth" path:

Lawson L47mp —> Tube Tech MP-1A —> Millenia Media TwinCom (tube path)
—> HEDD Converters —> ProTools HD192

[jmusic3]

I forgot that combo I mentioned above usually includes a Vari Mu in the middle. Very pleasing stuff.

-John

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Jules
Interesting isnt it?

Cranesong Hedd @ 96k 24 bit Tape & Pentode each at 7

Tape and Pentode at 7?

[jho]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Tape and Pentode at 7?

Here come the fuzz

Here come the fuzz

[juniorhifikit]

I haven't found two situations that allowed me to use the same settings/combinations of gear. Every time I try that, I'm disapointed and have to something else. I have found that I'm using less plugins and less corrective stuff in general. Which might suggest that I'm addapting to the ProTools environment, and getting it right on the front end.

That said, rock drums are still not quite right to me processing in the digital domain. Transients get "edgey" and seem to benefit from analog distortion a la 1176/Distressor/SSL comp. I wish I could find the digital equivalent. I also wish Digi could figure out plugin delay compensation. Oh well. Back to work - calculating offset delays...

[Coldsnow]

QUOTE
"So I tried it, and the results weren't what I would have expected. The tone became brash and on the verge of distortion--very transistory sounding, for lack of a better word. Tried it in the DI and got less of the same, a little easier to control. Could be useful for highlighting a track or adding aggression, but very different from the warm L47/DRS-2 combo that was already there. "


That's odd. It really sounded full and open when I tried it. What you are describing is the sound it gave me without the pad. You did use the -20 pad didn't you? The one I used is the single channel model, I don't suppose it's different.

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by Coldsnow
QUOTE
"So I tried it, and the results weren't what I would have expected. The tone became brash and on the verge of distortion--very transistory sounding, for lack of a better word. Tried it in the DI and got less of the same, a little easier to control. Could be useful for highlighting a track or adding aggression, but very different from the warm L47/DRS-2 combo that was already there. "


That's odd. It really sounded full and open when I tried it. What you are describing is the sound it gave me without the pad. You did use the -20 pad didn't you? The one I used is the single channel model, I don't suppose it's different.

Sure I used the pad. What were you coming out of? Coming straight out of an HD 192 into a transformerless mic input would seem like an anything-goes impedance scenario, and I wasn't surprised at how it sounded.

-R