Can You Tell The Difference? ART vs. Great River!

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

EDIT: The secret has been revealed! The preamps are revealed on page 3.

(NOTE - Before the big "reveal", the votes were 75% for the cheap ART preamp. Since the reveal, the votes are still pouring in for some reason, but in favor of the Great River. Why are people still voting??)

As a follow-up to my ART vs. Pre-73 test, I decided to take things up a notch, as I promised. This time I put the ART Tube MP ($29) up against the Great River MP-2NV ($2275). Crazy? We'll see.

I recorded 3 tracks (acoustic guitar, bass, and vocals) through one preamp. Then did the same tracks again through the second preamp. A U87 was used for guitar and vocals.

Yes, I know this is not a "perfect" test, because each take has its own subtle variations. But this is good enough to determine the sonic differences between these two pres. If cheap pres are as awful as folks claim, there should be no need for a "perfect" test to hear the quality difference. It should be obvious.

With that being said, here are the links to the mixes. I picked "Free Fallin" since it's a simple tune and I knew the chords on guitar (I'm mainly a bassist). Sorry for the mediocre performance. This was done in a hurry in 2 takes.

So which preamp do you prefer?? Place your votes above.

Preamp "Orange": http://www.atkinsonbasses.com/storage/orange.wav
Preamp "Apple": http://www.atkinsonbasses.com/storage/apple.wav


And just to prove I really tested the gear claimed:

[Dean Roddey]

Orange, at least on my crappy bedroom speakers, sounds a bit richer and more saturated. Since that's kind of a characteristic of the GR's, I'd guess that Orange is the GR. But neither of them sucked or anything, and of course it could just be difference in the performances that created that apparent difference where there really isn't one, I dunno. And it could be that what I'm hearing as richer and more saturated is just some high end rolloff, hard to say.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Orange, at least on my crappy bedroom speakers, sounds a bit richer and more saturated. Since that's kind of a characteristic of the GR's, I'd guess that Orange is the GR. But neither of them sucked or anything, and of course it could just be difference in the performances that created that apparent difference where there really isn't one, I dunno. And it could be that what I'm hearing as richer and more saturated is just some high end rolloff, hard to say.

Thanks for the input. Keep it coming, slutz!

[norman_nomad]

Gah!

Hosa YXM121 Y-Cable XLR female to two XLR male, 6" | Full Compass

I know you already gave the caveat, but a single performance would have made this test air tight... (also would have saved you from having to perform the song twice)... as is, no matter the results, people will discredit it based on the separate performances. Sucks...

Anyways... since you went through the effort, my guess is that Orange is the GR. It sounds 'rounder' and softer... Apple sounds scooped and generally less pleasant. This was my immediate gut impression.

[rkopald]

I suck horribly at these blind tests but I also liked the Orange..

[eascholz]

I'll go ahead and say that I noticed a VERY large difference. Usually, this big of a difference in sound is attributed to two separate performances. Oh, wait...

But this wouldn't be any fun if I didn't risk making a fool of myself so here goes: Orange is DEFINITELY the Great River. Happy?

[CT1]

The apple sounded much less pleasant to my ears. Especially on the vocals transients.

Never used either pre's but I would say that apple is the cheapo and orange is the GR. If the apple is the GR I'll definitely be putting that on my list of things to stay away from.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

Gah!

Hosa YXM121 Y-Cable XLR female to two XLR male, 6" | Full Compass

I know you already gave the caveat, but a single performance would have made this test air tight... (also would have saved you from having to perform the song twice)... as is, no matter the results, people will discredit it based on the separate performances. Sucks...

Yeah, I know. But I didn't have one of those cables laying around, and I didn't care enough to buy one.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by eascholz

I'll go ahead and say that I noticed a VERY large difference. Usually, this big of a difference in sound is attributed to two separate performances. Oh, wait...

Thanks for the feedback. Like I said: I know this is not a "perfect" test, because each take has its own subtle variations. But this is good enough to determine the sonic differences between these two pres. If cheap pres are as awful as folks claim, there should be no need for a "perfect" test to hear the quality difference. It should be obvious.

Keep the votes coming!

[otobianki74]

macbook pro speakers...

"orange" sounds richer and is overall more pleasing. "apple" sounds brittle, thin, and crisp on these monitors.

oto

[ARIEL]

Hmmm I may say apple is GR it has that hi end clarity , I have used both , not at the same time - Orange being a bit thicker . Just shows you can use either for this kind of music . The difference in pre amps really comes through when you are tracking a full band etc.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by ARIEL

The difference in pre amps really comes through when you are tracking a full band etc.

That's the common claim. However, I fail to see the logic. If anything, a single solo'd track would be best. The more stuff you have stacked, the less nuance and detail you can discern. If you can't hear the difference with 3 tracks, you won't hear the difference with 30.

[robertshaw]

I gotta tell ya, I like grapes......... but peaches are my fav....

I don't like ART or GR

but you have a good voice


crank up that UA unit, is that 6176?

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by rkopald

I suck horribly at these blind tests but I also liked the Orange..

there's no wrong answer!

[basskater87]

gonna vote orange for my favorite for this one!

[Nu-tra]

Orange! I say that apple is the art because it is making my speaker rattle like the other guys art test.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

there's no wrong answer!

lol, yeah there is if you paid 1000 for a GR and you like the ART......

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

lol, yeah there is if you paid 1000 for a GR and you like the ART......

lol. good point.

[JAMaudiorec]

Be easy on me guys, I'm fairly new to Gearslutz but, I'm voting for APPLE.
It seems to have more air to it. I also think the vocal gives it away because you come across really clear and present with smooth bottom (now it sounds like I'm hitting on you). Orange seems to be muddied slightly with some squashiness to it. Anyways, will you PM the "correct" answer anyways

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

lol, yeah there is if you paid 1000 for a GR and you like the ART......

Originally Posted by otobianki74

lol. good point.

?

More expensive pieces of gear don't -ALWAYS- sound better than lower priced pieces of gear.

So its possible some may prefer the ART over the GR in this particular circumstance... probably one of the other 10 things that matter more than the preamp that made the difference anyway. (Probably the performance )

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

?

More expensive pieces of gear don't -ALWAYS- sound better than lower priced pieces of gear.

I agree, PTHD hardware is proof of that

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

?

More expensive pieces of gear don't -ALWAYS- sound better than lower priced pieces of gear.

So its possible some may prefer the ART over the GR in this particular circumstance... probably one of the other 10 things that matter more than the preamp that made the difference anyway. (Probably the performance )

obviously dude. robertshaw's point being that if you paid more for a great river and liked the ART that would suck as you could have saved some dough.

[The Spark]

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

obviously dude. robertshaw's point being that if you paid more for a great river and liked the ART that would suck as you could have saved some dough.

huh?

I don't think you see the point... if you liked the ART more it means that you like the ART more with this guitar, with this player, in this room, with this mic, in this position etc etc etc

Change a variable and your taste in pre might change.

It certainly doesn't mean that you wasted your dough on something like a GR.

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I agree, PTHD hardware is proof of that

I am not sure why people around here think I am emotionally attached to PT. I could care less.

Well I guess I am a -little- emotionally attached to something that makes me thousand upon thousands of dollars.

Its pretty unbelievable the amount of referral gigs I get because other people DON'T have PTHD.

'Better' to me means what makes me the most money.

If the ART makes me cash, then its welcome in my session.

Any other opinion seems a bit bush league to me.

[MaTr1x2051]

I also prefer the orange clip... but I couldn't tell ya if that's because of the preamp, or because of a shift as small as 1 cm in mike position from the apple clips or different off-axis response... hence the need for a split signal from a single source.

I also agree with Mike above and would add:
Merely changing the mike position with the same player, same instrument, same room, might also change your preamp choice

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by The Spark

nice.....love it

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

I am not sure why people around here think I am emotionally attached to PT. I could care less.

Well I guess I am a -little- emotionally attached to something that makes me thousand upon thousands of dollars.

Its pretty unbelievable the amount of referral gigs I get because other people DON'T have PTHD.

'Better' to me means what makes me the most money.

If the ART makes me cash, then its welcome in my session.

Any other opinion seems a bit bush league to me.

I was agreeing with you..... I didn't know you used protools . And just because you do use protools does not mean you use their converters. I mean why would anyone?. No big deal. I like lots of inexpensive gear. I use lots of shure mics and often use the preamps in my bands midas. Price tag really means nothing to me. Since I would not use an ART anymore than I would a GR. Though I like this guys tests. we'll see which is which, should be fun. I can't tell


peace man

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

huh?

I don't think you see the point... if you liked the ART more it means that you like the ART more with this guitar, with this player, in this room, with this mic, in this position etc etc etc

Change a variable and your taste in pre might change.

It certainly doesn't mean that you wasted your dough on something like a GR

I do see your point, but I was pointing out that your statement wasn't really relevant to robertshaw's and my responses. I took it as a joke, i.e. in this specific instance where if rkopald had preferred the art assuming he owned a great river he might get his panties in a bunch being that he shelled out more for something he liked less.

performance and placement aside, which I agree will affect the sound of a recorded source, preamps do impart a distinct sound. I would guess the OP attempted to play similarly (distance and performance-wise) to get in the ballpark for this comparison test. he certainly sounds capable enough to do it.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

I would guess the OP attempted to play similarly (distance and performance-wise) to get in the ballpark for this comparison test. he certainly sounds capable enough to do it.

+1

I think he did a great job, they are as close as anyone would be able to get. Very consistent

[RiKi]

never heard the ART pre but owner of GR.
I haven't use it on a u87 nor I heard it so I'll give it try.
my shot is apple being the GR more clearer/focus sounding. Should I say it's grittier than orange(ART) which sound pretty good for this application, but I'll stay with apple on this test