Correct Use of Samples (Drumagog)

Crushed · 20th November 2005

Hello All,
I have just attempted to use Drumagog for the first time, and the player's dynamics are inconsistant; therefore, the samples are inserted in a very inconsistant manner. I gated the snare to remove all bleed, then triggered from that. I then lowered the threshold of the trigger that it would hit all the notes and follow the player's dyamics. It doesn't seem to have worked, however, as well as I had hoped. Am I missing something? Here's a rough mix of something with an example of what I'm talking about.

T_R_S · 20th November 2005

DrumAgog is far from perfect tool. Drumagog like all sample replacment software will float with dynamics. There is (still) no subsitute for a decent player.

84K · 20th November 2005

I prefer Sound Replacer still. I know I am the only one, but it just interfaces better. 50% of the time, I end up doing air lifts anyway...

69 Sound · 20th November 2005

T_R_S is correct Drumagog or any software is going to have a hard time when a track contains alot of bleed and uneven dynamics.

If you haven't already, you might try using the visual triggering window in drumagog. This will give you a visual reference to set the sensitivity to so it will trigger only on the snare hits. I've found this to be the easiest way.

I might also add that I never use drumagog 100% wet. If you're trying to completely replace the original snare, you might try cloning the original snare to an adjacent track so that you can slip edit it forward or backwards as needed using the original snare as a reference.

Good Luck

NathanEldred · 20th November 2005

There are a couple of ways around this.

1) You can turn off all or some of the multisamples, so you can just have the one 'loud snare' if you want. If it's using all the multisamples and autodetects, sometimes it's too tame when the drummer is inconsistent, depending on the style of music.

2) Go in and actually grab the waveform of the real snare drum and bring it up in level to make it equal to the other louder snares (you'll need to slice/delete around specific hits otherwise you are going to pull up the whole snare file!). This way Drumagog will detect only a 'loud' hit and choose the appropriate sample (see point #1). And if there is still too much bleed around a real soft hit, you can copy and paste a louder hit from the drummer and proceed as above. Takes some work but you can literally get it to a point of perfection (even on rolls, blast beats, snare builds, etc).

CorkyTart · 21st November 2005

Print samples to a diff track and check phase and polarity otherwise it will sound like ass.

Crushed · 21st November 2005

When I originally engineered the drum tracks, I had really good separation on the snare mic. Gating that track was easy. The problem seems to be that, while I was able to get rid of all the high hat from that track, the result was a combination of the snare and hat. It's like the two were at the same frequency or something, cause they just blended together to create a nasty snare sound. I'll try twiddling with a few of the knobs you all suggested.

Thanks a bunch folks,

Allen Butler

RoundBadge · 21st November 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84K

I prefer Sound Replacer still. I know I am the only one, but it just interfaces better. 50% of the time, I end up doing air lifts anyway...

Agreed ..lots of futzing with the triggering on DA.
Just got Drumagog..runs like crap at 96K..hopefully PT7 will help
the samples provided are kinda

some of the Farview ones are decent.
I use mostly my own anyways..
sometimes SR works better[with the odd hand chop here and there...]
... especially @ 96K.

Improv · 21st November 2005

try cloning the track to be drumagogged, as mentioned, but put a channel-strip type plugin before it to shape the tone and dynamics of the trigger source. I use sony dynamics, and with a combination of expansion, compression, and low/high filtering, I can make drumagog follow nice and evenly with enough varioution to be realistic.

Farview · 21st November 2005

If everything is gated well, you can insert a limiter (line an L1) before drumagog. This will even out the dynamics and get the level of the track up so that it triggers the stronger hits. Belive me, I get this problem all the time. If you can process the original hits so that they are as consistant as they need to be, Drumagog will save the day.

20th November 2005	#2
T_R_S Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canuk Posts: 5,163	DrumAgog is far from perfect tool. Drumagog like all sample replacment software will float with dynamics. There is (still) no subsitute for a decent player. __________________ ========== Surplus Sale

20th November 2005	#5
NathanEldred Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Coast Central Florida Posts: 7,130	There are a couple of ways around this. 1) You can turn off all or some of the multisamples, so you can just have the one 'loud snare' if you want. If it's using all the multisamples and autodetects, sometimes it's too tame when the drummer is inconsistent, depending on the style of music. 2) Go in and actually grab the waveform of the real snare drum and bring it up in level to make it equal to the other louder snares (you'll need to slice/delete around specific hits otherwise you are going to pull up the whole snare file!). This way Drumagog will detect only a 'loud' hit and choose the appropriate sample (see point #1). And if there is still too much bleed around a real soft hit, you can copy and paste a louder hit from the drummer and proceed as above. Takes some work but you can literally get it to a point of perfection (even on rolls, blast beats, snare builds, etc). __________________ Nathan Eldred Visit Atlas Pro Audio USA Distributor for Buzz Audio Atlas Recording Studios, Inc.

21st November 2005	#10
Farview Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 387	If everything is gated well, you can insert a limiter (line an L1) before drumagog. This will even out the dynamics and get the level of the track up so that it triggers the stronger hits. Belive me, I get this problem all the time. If you can process the original hits so that they are as consistant as they need to be, Drumagog will save the day. __________________ Jason 'Jay' Walsh Farview Recording - And check out Farview's Rock Drum samples for Drumagog exclusively at the Drumagog store!!!

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20th November 2005	#3
84K Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: right coast Posts: 3,857	I prefer Sound Replacer still. I know I am the only one, but it just interfaces better. 50% of the time, I end up doing air lifts anyway...

20th November 2005	#4
69 Sound Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OC Posts: 158	T_R_S is correct Drumagog or any software is going to have a hard time when a track contains alot of bleed and uneven dynamics. If you haven't already, you might try using the visual triggering window in drumagog. This will give you a visual reference to set the sensitivity to so it will trigger only on the snare hits. I've found this to be the easiest way. I might also add that I never use drumagog 100% wet. If you're trying to completely replace the original snare, you might try cloning the original snare to an adjacent track so that you can slip edit it forward or backwards as needed using the original snare as a reference. Good Luck

21st November 2005	#6
CorkyTart Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a house Posts: 1,378	Print samples to a diff track and check phase and polarity otherwise it will sound like ass.

21st November 2005	#7
Crushed Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 110 Thread Starter	When I originally engineered the drum tracks, I had really good separation on the snare mic. Gating that track was easy. The problem seems to be that, while I was able to get rid of all the high hat from that track, the result was a combination of the snare and hat. It's like the two were at the same frequency or something, cause they just blended together to create a nasty snare sound. I'll try twiddling with a few of the knobs you all suggested. Thanks a bunch folks, Allen Butler

21st November 2005	#9
Improv Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,365	try cloning the track to be drumagogged, as mentioned, but put a channel-strip type plugin before it to shape the tone and dynamics of the trigger source. I use sony dynamics, and with a combination of expansion, compression, and low/high filtering, I can make drumagog follow nice and evenly with enough varioution to be realistic.