a good sounding hihat recording
Old 16th November 2005
  #1
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a good sounding hihat recording

It's been a while i'm into recording drums, and one thing i find particularely difficult is to get the right hats sound, even more if you record in a non accoustically treated room (which happens sometimes to me).

When listening to top records like Deftones, Meshuggah, Metallica, ... that kind of heavy bands, i can hear the hats are very precise, though they are very back in the mix. I love that sound.

A friend of me who works in a studio, made me listen to a drum track they recorded in the studio, and I was quite amazed by the hats results. I know it begins with good sounding hihats, but that's not the only fact.
He told me they used an SM81 under the hats, ran into an Amek 9098 pre.

This is the topic for the hihat technique !

1) What mic would you use for greats hats ?

2) What high end pre would you use for great hats ?

3) How would you mix it ? (low cut, high pass, de-esser...)

Thanks for all the advices.
Old 16th November 2005
  #2
Gear addict
 

I like this chain:I got a great sound like this:

GOOD drummer (very important!) --> Zildjian MasterSound A Hihats --> Rode NT5.

Pre amp wise, I just used the Soundcraft's DC2000 console pre.

I was very happy with the sound.

When you mic up cymbals and hats, you find that there's of low frequencies (remeber that crash cymbals (for example) contain frequencies well below 1K).

I filtered down to about 800Hz and dipped a couple fo dB around 1.5. I didn't need to boost the top.

I was really impressed with mastersound hihats!

my 0.000002

Gomez
Old 16th November 2005
  #3
Gear Head
 
mesh boogie's Avatar
 

i dont even put a mic on them. i spend more time trying to get them tamed down if i do. overheads are where i get my hi hat sound from.
Old 16th November 2005
  #4
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JonCraig's Avatar
 

yep. no hats mic here, either. if i'm not getting enough of them in the oh's (which has never happened...) i would just tell the drummer to hit the damned things harder.

--jon
Old 16th November 2005
  #5
C/G
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I don't think it is the pre/mic combo that determines the sound but rather the player, how hard he/she hits the hats, uses the tip or side of the stick, technique ect. And of course what kind of hats one is using, med, thick, 13", 14", 15", bright finish, natural finish ect. Most importantly, how the hihat is mixed into the track, granted you are micing them and not relying on just room or overhead mics to pick them up. FWIW, last time we miced hats (just in case) we used a 451E/Ck1 into a presonus M88 pre. All the better pres were reserved for drums, overheads, room mic and hihats were Zildjian 14" mastersounds. Hihats get what is left over for mics or availabale channels.
Old 16th November 2005
  #6
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macr0w's Avatar
 

I know alot of people use a hat mic. But I have not felt(or heard) the need for it. My overheads do just fine.
Old 16th November 2005
  #7
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robmix's Avatar
I usually don't use it in the mix, but I'll always record it. I never know when one of my tracks will go out to a "mixer dude", so I'd rather be safe than sorry. Recently I got a Shure SM-81 and go into a Neve 3405, works great. Sounds like a hihat.
Old 16th November 2005
  #8
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BobbyPeru's Avatar
 

Sometimes using 2 bottoms or mismatched cymbals is cool too.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI
Old 16th November 2005
  #9
Gear Head
 
mesh boogie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmix
Sounds like a hihat.
nice.
Old 16th November 2005
  #10
There is one school of thought that has the Deftones hihat work down as about a weeks work of Fairlight programming - per song..

I can figure it out myself..

It is other worldly for sure..
Old 17th November 2005
  #11
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7 Hz's Avatar
 

'Cool Down Version' on King Tubby's Special, Trojan TRLD 409.

This track is ALL ABOUT the hi-hat!
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 tubby-hat.mp3 (958.3 KB, 592 views)
Old 17th November 2005
  #12
Gear maniac
 

for something like that Tubby track... you gotta be mic'ing the HATS..... err.... MON!

r.
Old 1st October 2006
  #13
Gear interested
 
Losian's Avatar
 

Recording Hi-hats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLy_drums View Post
It's been a while i'm into recording drums, and one thing i find particularely difficult is to get the right hats sound, even more if you record in a non accoustically treated room (which happens sometimes to me).

When listening to top records like Deftones, Meshuggah, Metallica, ... that kind of heavy bands, i can hear the hats are very precise, though they are very back in the mix. I love that sound.

A friend of me who works in a studio, made me listen to a drum track they recorded in the studio, and I was quite amazed by the hats results. I know it begins with good sounding hihats, but that's not the only fact.
He told me they used an SM81 under the hats, ran into an Amek 9098 pre.

This is the topic for the hihat technique !

1) What mic would you use for greats hats ?

2) What high end pre would you use for great hats ?

3) How would you mix it ? (low cut, high pass, de-esser...)

Thanks for all the advices.
High Hats are tough! I know Meshuggah's lastest (catch 33) had sampled drums. Metal recordings are tough on hats - room mics won't keep up with guitars and heavy kicks and such.

1) SM81 is a classic mic for hats. I've seen some engineers use crown PZM's on the hats (pzm's pick up reflected sound so place them underneath or up top facing down) - that's the closest i've heard to that crisp metal high-hat sound.

2) Pre's for high hats have to be bright - any pre that's good on drum overheads will work.

3) Serious low-cut eq-ing is key! I mean extreme cuts - like take everything out under 2k.

Good luck!
Old 1st October 2006
  #14
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tomdarude's Avatar
 

a great thing I learned from michael brauer here:

harsh highs on hihats & cymbals can be perfectly tamed with the "warmth" setting on the fatso!

http://www.empiricallabs.com/fatmenu.html

as can a lot of other harsh, ungentle, peaky sounds, samples, etc.


Old 1st October 2006
  #15
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absrec's Avatar
 

Great stuff! I always have a problem getting hats right. When I put up a hat mic, I don't use it in the mix and when I don't put one up, I find myself wishing that I had one. I also agree with using a HP filter on them. All you really need is the splash part of the sound. I've heard people say that they like to use an SM57 and keep it pretty dark sounding because you're getting the majority of the high highs from the overheads and rooms. That being said, I still don't feel like I've ever gotten it right.

-Aaron
Old 1st October 2006
  #16
Gear maniac
 
tgrokz's Avatar
 

my old recording teacher used to insist on micing the hihats, then when it came to mixiing, he would bring it doown to about -30db. i alwyas found that funny.
when i use the recorderman method with my studio projects c4s (which i love), the hats come in clear and perfect. no need to mic.
Old 1st October 2006
  #17
Gear maniac
 
ribteen's Avatar
 

recently been using a 451 body with a blue cardioid capsule for hat. nice and crisp. the other thing i find very pleasing is using a compressor/gate on the hat while tracking to isolate the hat from the rest of the kit. then in the mix i have so much control. also, good hats are a must!!! zildjian custom dark are great!!!
Old 1st October 2006
  #18
Gear maniac
 
Matt Smith's Avatar
 

Bob Rock uses an SM7 on hats a lot. I've always been curious to try that. Of course, combined with his 8,000 overheads, cymbal mics and room mics, who knows what's adding what to the sound in the end.

Matt
Old 1st October 2006
  #19
lwr
Gear addict
 

i like a shure sm7b into an api 312.

works for me
Old 1st October 2006
  #20
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djui5's Avatar
 

I hope WW dosen't see this thread, it just might cause him to internally combust
Old 2nd October 2006
  #21
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I use the SM7 on hats too...console pre...EQ to taste. Usually high-pass like a MoFo to start with and 80-90% of the time it's 'enough'.

RE/PL-20's...421's are a little too loose for my tastes...sometimes just an SM57 for any sort of "rock" setting. If it's a jazz or fusion/prog rock kinda thing I might go for a small diaphragm condensor...

But usually I'm not putting a mic on the hats at all.

Only if they're either too far off-axis from the overheads or the drummer is doing REALLY hip stuff with the hats and I don't want to miss that detail...like a Will Calhoun/Steve Smith/Bozzio type of 'technical' drummer.
Old 2nd October 2006
  #22
Lives for gear
 

doing a record right now...great hat sound..
reggae/dub..

184-api 3124-massive passive-c2..
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