The difference between the API and Neve sound. Fun and Enlightening.

[Jonk]

I thought it would be a fun post, especially for those who don't know, like myself, or who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Neve and API in a an A/B comparison (I might be able to do this, but again, I'm not slutty enough to be overly confident that I can) . . . but. . .here's the rules.

(I also aknowledge that this could lead to a lot of speculation, but I still think it's a worthwhile thread)

If you know of two records, for sure, that were tracked/mixed on API and Neve consoles respectively, then you would say, for example:

The Clash's "London Calling" was tracked/mixed on a Neve, while the Stones' "Some Girls" was tracked/mixed on an API.

I have no idea whether I'm right on either of these records, but for people who have a vast knowledge of different records that everyone knows, it would be fun for the rest of us to hear from you.

So, let's have at it.

Doesn't matter what records you want to mention, just might be nice to know about ones that lots of people are familiar with. Hopefully this will be fun and enlightening.

[3rd world order]

to me the API sound is Daniel Lanois.... U2's Achtung Baby..

one of my favorite sounding recordings for API/tape/pultec goo is "the man in the long black coat" which Dylan did with Lanois on an obscure record called Oh Mercy in the 80s.

we used to use that to warm up the Wilson/Levinson setups... it sounds GORGEOUS.



a good example of the Neve sound is Meat Beat Manifesto's "Actual Sounds and Voices", at least for synth/sampler music. Viva Jack Dangers!

[djui5]

Muse: Absolution = Neve like none other....

[RoundBadge]

Some girls was tracked on an EMI TG console if i remember correctly
Stevie wonder Talking Book[Superstition,etc] API..actually he owned an API..
AC/DC back in black,Lennon solo stuff,early Cars stuff ..Neve I beleive..
Bowie ..Rise and fall,Queen.. Bohemian ..A range?
When I was at Lanois' place in Oxnord CA a bunch of years back.... it was a Neve 8068 doing most of the tracking ..Dylan..Chris Whitley..etc
I think he had an API in New Orleans after that?
..Dunno..
I bet Flecther probably knows a lot of this stuff...

[robmix]

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

to me the API sound is Daniel Lanois.... U2's Achtung Baby..

Really ? Do you have a source for that ? Everything I've read has credited Neve consoles though with Lanois' gear collection I'm sure API was in use as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994...bbieadams.html

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by robmix

Really ? Do you have a source for that ? Everything I've read has credited Neve consoles though with Lanois' gear collection I'm sure API was in use as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994...bbieadams.html

I'd be curious to know that as well..
When I was at his place in Oxnard it was Neve,Studer madness..
BCM's,Melbournes,etc,etc..absolutely immaculate stuff.
I brought a buddies BCM up there for them to check and possibly buy.
his engineer Mark Howard checked it out and passed because it had a few little srcatches on it..
I'm really glad he passed on it..I talked my buddy into keeping it and we use the modules on every session.


Hey Rob..How's a bout that new Daking console!!wink wink,nudge,nudge..

[3rd world order]

In the late '80s, Lanois moved to New Orleans, where he set up his own studio, Kingsway, a rather funky place located in a large 19th century house. Very little, if any, acoustic treatment was done, an API mixing desk was deposited in the living room, Lanois spread out his guitars and amps and all kinds of other instruments in the house, and recordings take place anywhere, in the living room, in the hall, in the kitchen -- wherever the mood of the musicians flowers best. It all exemplifies the performance-based philosophy for which Lanois became famous.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994...iellanois.html

i've heard that somewhere else before too, this was just the first link i could find.

[Jules]

Yes this is innaccurate.. "The Clash's "London Calling" was tracked/mixed on a Neve, while the Stones' "Some Girls" was tracked/mixed on an API."

[robmix]

Yeah, I knew he had API as well as Neve. At Teatro there was the Neve and an API sidecar. I was mainly asking about the Achtung sessions.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Hey Rob..How's a bout that new Daking console!!wink wink,nudge,nudge..

I'm thinking about starting a thread about the new console . . . . .. kind of waiting for a few things to fall into place this week. I've got to take some good pics !!!!!!

[3rd world order]

Lanois tends to get more lyrical when talking about vintage gear. One example of this is his API desk, which graces Kingsway's front room: "The desk came out of the Record Plant in New York. These consoles have a really good and punchy bass. They also have wonderful equalisers. Each channel has a very musical 10-band graphic with great bottom and top end. I like graphic EQs because they're quick to use. You can make a musical change on them in three seconds, whereas with a parametric it's fiddly, and you might be messing around with something for two or three minutes and still wonder whether you've improved something or not. The graphic is quick and it's visual. You can look at 40 channels in one glance and see what you're doing.

on 8 tracks...

"I don't know what the big deal is about ADAT, do you?" The answer, that it offers digital sound quality in a multitrack at a price previously unheard of, didn't make much impression on him. Lanois became impatient, scathing almost: "Oh, come on man, I have a clunky 8-track Studer with dbx and it sounds ****ing great. It kicks ass, it makes great records. People go on about sound quality as if it's now just all come around the corner. That's a bunch of shit. An 8-track is an 8-track. Those one-inch reel to reel 8-tracks kick ass, they have great bottom and a very sweet top end. It seems to me that things continually appear that we had all along and that people treat them like they're something ground breaking, whereas they're not."

on 1/2" & DAT

"I will generally use analogue machines, though for vocals I will occasionally use digital. I do mix to digital, to DAT, but I assemble on half-inch two-track with Dolby SR. I'll often take stuff that's been mixed to DAT, bounce it back onto the half-inch and do some edits. What happens in the transfer is that a little bit of the loudness curve of the half-inch is picked up and the result is a better bass, a better top end and the mid-range crunches down during hard hitting transient passages, which is a very musical effect."

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Jules

Yes this is innaccurate.. "The Clash's "London Calling" was tracked/mixed on a Neve, while the Stones' "Some Girls" was tracked/mixed on an API."

I dunno Jules..seems some conflicting info floating around
the thing is, the record actually sounds like an EMI TG was used..
Maybe tracked TG and mixed API?
Dunno for sure..
Maybe my info is wrong but this TG mixer site says otherwise
[check in the pictures section ..under EX: Pathe-Marconi]:

http://www.tgmixers.co.uk/


Quoted from the TG site:

"Pathe-Marconi - A desk with a history.

Originally from EMI Pathe-Marconi studios in Paris, this Mk3 console is installed in songwriter/producer Terry Britten's "State of the Ark" studio in Richmond, southwest London.
While in Paris this console was used to record the Rolling Stones Grammy nominated album "Some Girls" and several tracks of the follow ups, "Emotional Rescue" and "Tattoo You" , notably the classic "Start Me Up", with Engineer Chris Kimsey."

[borau]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I dunno Jules..seems some conflicting info floating around
the thing is the record actually sounds like an EMI TG was used..
Maybe tracked TG and mixed API?
Dunno for sure..
Maybe my info is wrong but this TG mixer site says otherwise
[check in the pictures section ..under EX: Pathe-Marconi]:

http://www.tgmixers.co.uk/


Quoted from the TG site:

"Pathe-Marconi - A desk with a history.

Originally from EMI Pathe-Marconi studios in Paris, this Mk3 console is installed in songwriter/producer Terry Britten's "State of the Ark" studio in Richmond, southwest London.
While in Paris this console was used to record the Rolling Stones Grammy nominated album "Some Girls" and several tracks of the follow ups, "Emotional Rescue" and "Tattoo You" , notably the classic "Start Me Up", with Engineer Chris Kimsey."

This article http://mixonline.com/recording/inter...art/index.html
Discusses the recording of the song "Start me up" which infact was recorded during the "some girls" sessions. It mentions the EMI TG as the desk being used.

[Jonk]

Jules was actually quoting me and saying I was inaccurate, which I assumed I had a good chance of being. I was merely mentioning (Londing calling and Some Girls) hypothetically to set up the thread. I knew it probably wasn't true. I could have used any two records, but I don't really know.

I meant to simply suggest a good form of answer:

So and So's _______ was tracked on a Neve, while So and So's________ was tracked on an API.

[RoundBadge]

I think the majority of the Police stuff was all tracked Neve..
listen to Outlandos d'Amour,Reggatta de Blanc,etc for "that" sound.

[Musiclab]

Kingsway had the API from the record plant in NY w the api 560s in it. I worked on that console at the record plant. Teatro had Neve stuff stuck together.

[wallace]

Re: Some Girls, from Mix Online:

"The console was an old EMI 1962-era desk with quadrant faders that just had treble and bass on them; very basic 16-track, no outboard, nothing. Mick had done this deal where he got the studio for a pittance to rehearse in, but when we got in there, the sound that was coming through that desk was so good — they had amazing microphones; a collection of wonderful [Neumann] 47s and anything you could imagine — I didn't really want to move, and Keith agreed. We were supposed to move next door to the studio with a giant Neve desk, but we didn't; we stayed in the demo studio, and that's where we remained pretty much for the next two years.”

[Messiah]

Bohemian Rhapsody= Classic API ('British Sound'?)
Pink Floyd, Anything off Dark Side= Classic Neve

Naturally, both contain a heap o' engineering and mixing and performing talent.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Messiah

Bohemian Rhapsody= Classic API ('British Sound'?)
Pink Floyd, Anything off Dark Side= Classic Neve

Naturally, both contain a heap o' engineering and mixing and performing talent.

"British sound?"....To my knowledge, API is and always was an american made console..
..I think Queen used a Trident A range[that is indeed british] on a lot of stuff

Pink Floyd, Anything off Dark Side=Classic TG
Dark side of the moon[actually used to market the Chandler "TG" line of products] was recorded on an EMI TG desk:

http://www.tgmixers.co.uk/

Again Quoted from the TG site:

"the Abbey Road Mk4 Custom console in Studio 2, around 1971.
This console was used for a number of major recordings during the 1970's and early 80's, amongst which was Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon." The desk remained in studio 2 until the summer of 1983.

Now owned by producer Mike Hedges, and used recently for recordings by The Manic Street Preachers, Travis, Texas and A1. The console is currently installed in Mike's North London studio. "

[kats]

He did sound convincing though.

[SLy_drums]

How do you compare the Neve sound to the API sound ? Is happy darker ? Neve clearer ?

This would be very interessant to have audio extracts posted, recording the same sources with 2 different pres (Neve and API), the same for comps and EQ.
I'm overall interested when it comes to the drum sound !
I love APIs but never had the chance to try Neve stuff.

[Messiah]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

"British sound?"....To my knowledge, API is and always was an american made console..
..I think Queen used a Trident A range[that is indeed british] on a lot of stuff

You've misunderstood me... API is, of course, American.
What I meant is that there would be a lot of people consider Bohemian Rhapsody to be quintessially 'British', whereas it was actually recorded on an API desk.
I've worked on the API desk in question at Rockfield (....or should I say the channels that they kept from it, the main desk is now a Neve VR Legend) and recorded the piano too.

It may well have been mixed on a Trident, certainly tracked on an API though.


I heard a story that Mike Hedges got the Mk4 when he intercepted Abbey Road techies about to put it in a skip round the back of the studio...

There is another Abbey Road/Pink Floyd Neve desk living in Great Linford Manor Studios in pieces (now closed because the owner has become a football chairman)...

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Messiah

You've misunderstood me... API is, of course, American.
What I meant is that there would be a lot of people consider Bohemian Rhapsody to be quintessially 'British', whereas it was actually recorded on an API desk.
I've worked on the API desk in question at Rockfield (....or should I say the channels that they kept from it, the main desk is now a Neve VR Legend) and recorded the piano too.

It may well have been mixed on a Trident, certainly tracked on an API though.


I heard a story that Mike Hedges got the Mk4 when he intercepted Abbey Road techies about to put it in a skip round the back of the studio...

There is another Abbey Road/Pink Floyd Neve desk living in Great Linford Manor Studios in pieces (now closed because the owner has become a football chairman)...

Where's this Great Linford Manor joint?
that Neve needs liberating

[TornadoTed]

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

to me the API sound is Daniel Lanois.... U2's Achtung Baby..

one of my favorite sounding recordings for API/tape/pultec goo is "the man in the long black coat" which Dylan did with Lanois on an obscure record called Oh Mercy in the 80s.

we used to use that to warm up the Wilson/Levinson setups... it sounds GORGEOUS.



a good example of the Neve sound is Meat Beat Manifesto's "Actual Sounds and Voices", at least for synth/sampler music. Viva Jack Dangers!

I love 'Oh Mercy' by Dylan, deffinately my favourite album 'artistically' of all time and probably one of my favourite sounding records of all time also. Interesting to know the kit used on it.

[Messiah]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Where's this Great Linford Manor joint?
that Neve needs liberating

Great Linford's Classic Neve

[Messiah]

hit submit too soon....

there are quite a few video clips of the desk in question.

I'm sure Neve buff's 'll dig it...

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Messiah

hit submit too soon....

there are quite a few video clips of the desk in question.

I'm sure Neve buff's 'll dig it...

Cool link..
..that thing is pretty sick..

[Volodia]

Originally Posted by wallace

Re: Some Girls, from Mix Online:

"The console was an old EMI 1962-era desk with quadrant faders that just had treble and bass on them; very basic 16-track, no outboard, nothing. Mick had done this deal where he got the studio for a pittance to rehearse in, but when we got in there, the sound that was coming through that desk was so good — they had amazing microphones; a collection of wonderful [Neumann] 47s and anything you could imagine — I didn't really want to move, and Keith agreed. We were supposed to move next door to the studio with a giant Neve desk, but we didn't; we stayed in the demo studio, and that's where we remained pretty much for the next two years.”

The demo studio had an EMI TG desk and a Studer A80 16 tracks as well as access to the mic collection of the big brother ( 200+ microphones 10s of 47,49,C12s ,67s etc..) .
The reverb was an EMT 240 and the delay was a Revox tape machine . .
When they "improved " the studio they put a TAC Matchless in place of the TG with a 3M 24 tracks to replace the Studer (horrible) !

[u b k]

i'm guessing the original poster is probably more confounded now than ever about what is api and what is neve. djui5 called it, that muse album positively reeks of all things neve turned up to 11.

my take, for what it's worth:

NEVE -> superfine .0000 steel wool dipped in orangeblossom honey.

API -> black framed large format ansel adams original print, lovingly hand-tinted a muted cocoa brown.


gregoire
del ubik