The difference between the API and Neve sound. Fun and Enlightening. - Page 2

drmmrboy · 15th November 2005, 10:34 PM

A lot of guesses here as to what is what.
Fun(ny) and enlightening... Sure is...
But hell, we're getting some straightened out.

I mean.. Jimmy Page only played.. uh.. Les Pauls.. right..
So, Zep must be the.. um.. Les Paul sound...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by u b i k

my take, for what it's worth:

NEVE -> superfine .0000 steel wool dipped in orangeblossom honey.

API -> black framed large format ansel adams original print, lovingly hand-tinted a muted cocoa brown.

This is great!

Not one direct reference to phat, thick, open, tight, punchy, etc...

drmmrboy · 15th November 2005, 10:42 PM

Wow! I sound so jaded in that last post.
I was trying to make a point, but I came off angry, and bitter.
I better start checking myself, or I'll end up hating everyone, and everything.

Andrew

And yeah, I know Page wasn't all Paul's.
That was part of my angry little point...

max cooper · 15th November 2005, 11:46 PM

Neve:

max cooper · 15th November 2005, 11:46 PM

3rd world order · 15th November 2005, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u b i k

iNEVE -> superfine .0000 steel wool dipped in orangeblossom honey.

API -> black framed large format ansel adams original print, lovingly hand-tinted a muted cocoa brown.

I agree. I've always described the Neve sound as "solid steel" and API as "warm, brown." ADATs to me were always "green" in a bad way.. as in NOT the rainforest.

I have suspicions that Depeche Mode's "Violator" had a lot of API in the chain but I've never found proof... unfortunately, Flood doesn't do a lot of interviews.. tho i found a hilarious picture on the NIN site many years ago. it's suitable for cropping into an avatar for sure.

3rd world order · 16th November 2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmmrboy

I mean.. Jimmy Page only played.. uh.. Les Pauls.. right..
So, Zep must be the.. um.. Les Paul sound...?

the story i heard was Teles.. but only in the studio..

max cooper · 16th November 2005, 12:09 AM

Most of the time:

I'm sure ol' "Led Wallet" had plenty o' geetars to choose from.

Billy Gibbons (AFAIK) played Les Pauls live and mostly Strats in the studio before the Eliminatone days.

drmmrboy · 16th November 2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

the story i heard was Teles.. but only in the studio..

Yeah, that was part of my blurby point in the last post..

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmmrboy

And yeah, I know Page wasn't all Paul's.
That was part of my angry little point...

LRRec · 16th November 2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

I love 'Oh Mercy' by Dylan, deffinately my favourite album 'artistically' of all time and probably one of my favourite sounding records of all time also. Interesting to know the kit used on it.

I agree with you about "Oh, Mercy". It is a wonderful album.

I remember reading an article at the time (I think it was in MIX) about the recording of it. The vocal chain was a Sony tube mic, Neve 1081 and an LA2. On Dylan's ac guitar they had a soundhole pickup that went to a little amp in another room to get isolation. The preamps were various Neve and API but the mixing board was a TAC Matchless.

kats · 16th November 2005, 01:46 AM

I thought it was tele's on Zep1 then LP's for most of the stuff on later albums. Of course he used a strat on ITTOD on occasion and his Danelectro on the freakier stuff.

papawhitehead · 16th November 2005, 02:36 AM

Somebody said recently that if they were peanut butter.....
Neve = creamy
API = crunchy
A lot of food references.....This my be because most of us are in between meals

Igotsoul4u · 16th November 2005, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I think the majority of the Police stuff was all tracked Neve..
listen to Outlandos d'Amour,Reggatta de Blanc,etc for "that" sound.

i think the Police mixed on an SSL so I tend to think the SSL sound dominates the Police sound. It's to clean to be neve. I also think the bottom end on police records lacks that thick neve thunder. I would love an official answer if anybody has one.

RoundBadge · 16th November 2005, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

i think the Police mixed on an SSL so I tend to think the SSL sound dominates the Police sound. It's to clean to be neve. I also think the bottom end on police records lacks that thick neve thunder. I would love an official answer if anybody has one.

I think we're both right actually..
I said tracked :Neve
You said mixed:SSL

..Gotta love the old Google search..
I think for some albums this was true..
I did a quick Police/Neve console google and found this..
From a mix article
Good article BTW....
check it out..Hugh Padgham talks about all aspects of tracking "Every Breath You Take"

http://mixonline.com/recording/inter..._every_breath/

"Padgham says that the outboard effects were minimal: “In those days, there weren't 4 million digital reverbs. We recorded on an old Neve console, so it was all recorded through those lovely, old, Class-A mic pre's, and recorded onto MCI 2-inch machines. I'm pretty sure we used 30 ips, and we might even have used Dolby on some tracks, as well. I had an obsession about tape noise at the time, and on some of the quieter Police tracks, I was worried that people would accuse me of being a bad engineer if there was any noise,” says Padgham, who adds that his assistant engineer on Synchronicity was Renata, who ended up marrying Elton John. “I think the whole album was done on 24-track analog, which most albums were then, and you'd never think of attempting that now with loads of harmonies going on,” says Padgham, adding that they mixed the album in Canada on an SSL."

RoundBadge · 16th November 2005, 05:51 AM

I know this was discussed on an old thread...
http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=16757

love this Band:
The Soundtrack of our Lives from Sweden..Love and own an older 80 series Neve

I was talking to one of the bandmembers out here a while back about tracking down cool old gear in LA..I believe his name was Kalle...
a total vintage gear o'phile

Sqye · 16th November 2005, 03:13 PM

I'm actually trying to locate a desk that LOOKs like a Neve and SOUNDs like and API - any ideas, guys?

Are there any folks here who do internal API part swapping on Neve consoles? Obviously, it would help me out a lot if the unit SMELLs like a Trident, and FEELs like an SSL. I'm probably asking too much, though

Of course, if it would TASTE like some of those food jammies you guys mentioned above, I'd be willing to pay extra.

softwareguy · 16th November 2005, 05:26 PM

I love this thread!

"Oh, Mercy" is one of my key references as well (in fact I bought a chopped, blackface pro reverb that was used on it off of ebay, sounds amazing). I am interested to hear that there was API involved in the making of it, I had always thought that it was a straight Neve endeavor. However, I must say that the most striking aspect of it is the richness and dimensionality of the sound, which is a consistent trademark of Lanois work on whatever equipment he uses, from Joshua Tree to Mercy to Wrecking Ball and on and on.

One of my key API references is the "Purple Rain" album which to me is Prince at the top of his game, creating some really amazing sonics (just check out the kick drums). It also demonstrates API's capacity for drive and punch in a big way.

A key Neve reference for me is Bryan Adams "Cuts Like a Knife." Classic Neve fatness and dimension, relatively early Clearmountain effort. Sounds like it was painted on black velvet, but in a good way. Shelly Yakus talks about it in a Mix article as one of his reference disks.

And speaking of Yakus, a really interesting comparison is his production on Tom Petty's "Damn the Torpedos" (a Neve effort) to Tom Petty's later "Full Moon Fever" which was recorded on the custom API in Sunset Sound's Studio 1. This board has been discussed here and elsewhere as having had nickel transformers installed, as well as having had a number of 990 op amps installed downstream, especially in the summing buss, for a clearer sound. I haven't asked but it's probably a good guess that this board is the inspiration for the Shadow Hills Gamma "Nickel" setting, inspired by a "California custom console."

RoundBadge · 17th November 2005, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by softwareguy

. This board has been discussed here and elsewhere as having had nickel transformers installed, as well as having had a number of 990 op amps installed downstream, especially in the summing buss, for a clearer sound. I haven't asked but it's probably a good guess that this board is the inspiration for the Shadow Hills Gamma "Nickel" setting, inspired by a "California custom console."

Yes ,you are excactly right..
The custom Alan Demedio in Sunset #3..Great sounding console
The Wallflowers ..Bringing Down The Horse..ect.

narco · 17th November 2005, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

to me the API sound is Daniel Lanois.... U2's Achtung Baby..

i always thought that was recorded on U2's own emi neve

narco

wallace · 22nd November 2005, 10:01 PM

sorry to break out this old thread, but does anybody know what they used to record Bob Marley, "Survival"? Was it API?

"Full Moon Fever" was API, really?

softwareguy · 1st December 2005, 05:32 PM

If you go on the Sunset Sound Studios site, www.sunsetsound.com, they list Full Moon Fever as one of their reference albums for Studio 1, which is a custom modded API, that I understand to be very similar (nickel trannies, 990's) to the Studio 3 modded API that Roundbadge discusses in an earlier post. It's an interesting site to look through for "LA Sound" references as well as for the Neve/API thing.

benelli · 29th January 2006, 06:16 PM

I did a quick session at Kingsway in New Orleans in 1999. It was the most massive API console I've ever seen, even though I've only seen a few. I mean, it was HUGE. I think the eq's were 560's - they were graphic, at least. Mackie monitors. The sound of the console, I dunno how to say it any other way, but it was TOUGH.

I think a console like this would win an armwrestle with a classic Neve or something like that. But at the same time, I think the Neve would win in a debate over foreign policy or healthcare.

WOW - I know also, being from New Orleans, that at some point, Nicholas Cage bought Kingsway studio - at least - that was the buzz in the music world. This would have been years ago. I wonder what the hell happened to that console? The only corroboration about Nicholas Cage being invovled in a transaction was something that my father read in the paper at the time. Does anyone know what happened to that console, if that studio is still funtional, if it was ever sold? It's a great and very atmospheric building - old, not necessarily decayed, but - mystical somehow.

Again, please forgive the thread hijack.

best to all,

_J_
www.telefontelaviv.com

Also - please forgive my thread hijack, folks - they had Reich-era Neumanns there, replete with swastikas. I don't think they used them; I would assume they were there for collector's value.

Marjan · 30th January 2006, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benelli

I think a console like this would win an armwrestle with a classic Neve or something like that. But at the same time, I think the Neve would win in a debate over foreign policy or healthcare.

danbronson · 27th June 2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper

API:

Hmm, okay what preamp sounds like this?

blim · 27th June 2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danbronson

Hmm, okay what preamp sounds like this?

I don't know, but I don't think I'd want a preamp that sounded like an overpriced yellow car for rich middle-aged men.

Newcleardaze · 27th June 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danbronson

Hmm, okay what preamp sounds like this?

You mean all thin and whiney but with a quick response when it's rapped out??? Why that would have to be a Focusrite Octopre.

Sigma · 27th June 2008, 09:16 PM

even if you were there 33% of stuff said about sessions is generally BS or drug blotted memories

you should hear the stories about what was supposed to been used in our rooms during sessions

bottom line on the session engineering or the production money i'd want to ride on... all the best equipment in the world and a mediocre song and a 4 track tascam recorder,crappy board and a hit..i'd take the tascam...normal people listen to the song..we are the geek squad..err at least some

all i think about when someone says neve or api in the most general sense ..is scapel or chainsaw..

rackdude · 27th June 2008, 09:23 PM

I think someone has to have a shootout thing between an API and a Neve. Listening Sessions?

danbronson · 27th June 2008, 09:23 PM

Heh, I meant modern, with ridiculous performance specs. Neves and APIs are pretty old. What (high quality) preamp sounds like 2008?

Sigma · 27th June 2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rackdude

I think someone has to have a shootout thing between an API and a Neve. Listening Sessions?

what ? a shoot out is basically which is better

a boat works better on water and a car on land

what pray tell would your criteria be.. and then how would it relate to the creative element in mixing?

msmith · 27th June 2008, 10:10 PM

This is a grey area to me because, for me, its more about how the unit responds. I mean , they both have a very different signature that they impart on the source, but that doesnt necessarily become that apparent in the final mix. What makes the difference of these items obvious to me, is the way that they respond when Im working with them. Good tools, and great varied results...

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15th November 2005, 11:46 PM	#33
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	Neve: Attached Thumbnails

15th November 2005, 11:46 PM	#34
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	API: Attached Thumbnails

16th November 2005, 12:09 AM	#37
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	Most of the time: I'm sure ol' "Led Wallet" had plenty o' geetars to choose from. Billy Gibbons (AFAIK) played Les Pauls live and mostly Strats in the studio before the Eliminatone days. Attached Thumbnails

16th November 2005, 02:36 AM	#41
papawhitehead Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin Posts: 146	Somebody said recently that if they were peanut butter..... Neve = creamy API = crunchy A lot of food references.....This my be because most of us are in between meals __________________ I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate! ------------------------------------------------------ Robert Whitehead TweaK FreQ StudioS Austin, TX

15th November 2005, 10:42 PM	#32
drmmrboy Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Philadelphia PA Posts: 1,608	Wow! I sound so jaded in that last post. I was trying to make a point, but I came off angry, and bitter. I better start checking myself, or I'll end up hating everyone, and everything. Andrew And yeah, I know Page wasn't all Paul's. That was part of my angry little point...

16th November 2005, 01:46 AM	#40
kats Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,326	I thought it was tele's on Zep1 then LP's for most of the stuff on later albums. Of course he used a strat on ITTOD on occasion and his Danelectro on the freakier stuff.

16th November 2005, 05:51 AM	#44
RoundBadge Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Los Angeles ,Ca. Posts: 5,548	I know this was discussed on an old thread... http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=16757 love this Band: The Soundtrack of our Lives from Sweden..Love and own an older 80 series Neve I was talking to one of the bandmembers out here a while back about tracking down cool old gear in LA..I believe his name was Kalle... a total vintage gear o'phile

16th November 2005, 03:13 PM	#45
Sqye Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: undergound railroad Posts: 5,472	I'm actually trying to locate a desk that LOOKs like a Neve and SOUNDs like and API - any ideas, guys? Are there any folks here who do internal API part swapping on Neve consoles? Obviously, it would help me out a lot if the unit SMELLs like a Trident, and FEELs like an SSL. I'm probably asking too much, though Of course, if it would TASTE like some of those food jammies you guys mentioned above, I'd be willing to pay extra. __________________ Sqye (sky) *wired planet new music CREDITS link directly above ipod player *wired planet *fallen planet "he who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death" .... Thomas Paine

16th November 2005, 05:26 PM	#46
softwareguy Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 390	I love this thread! "Oh, Mercy" is one of my key references as well (in fact I bought a chopped, blackface pro reverb that was used on it off of ebay, sounds amazing). I am interested to hear that there was API involved in the making of it, I had always thought that it was a straight Neve endeavor. However, I must say that the most striking aspect of it is the richness and dimensionality of the sound, which is a consistent trademark of Lanois work on whatever equipment he uses, from Joshua Tree to Mercy to Wrecking Ball and on and on. One of my key API references is the "Purple Rain" album which to me is Prince at the top of his game, creating some really amazing sonics (just check out the kick drums). It also demonstrates API's capacity for drive and punch in a big way. A key Neve reference for me is Bryan Adams "Cuts Like a Knife." Classic Neve fatness and dimension, relatively early Clearmountain effort. Sounds like it was painted on black velvet, but in a good way. Shelly Yakus talks about it in a Mix article as one of his reference disks. And speaking of Yakus, a really interesting comparison is his production on Tom Petty's "Damn the Torpedos" (a Neve effort) to Tom Petty's later "Full Moon Fever" which was recorded on the custom API in Sunset Sound's Studio 1. This board has been discussed here and elsewhere as having had nickel transformers installed, as well as having had a number of 990 op amps installed downstream, especially in the summing buss, for a clearer sound. I haven't asked but it's probably a good guess that this board is the inspiration for the Shadow Hills Gamma "Nickel" setting, inspired by a "California custom console."

22nd November 2005, 10:01 PM	#49
wallace Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	sorry to break out this old thread, but does anybody know what they used to record Bob Marley, "Survival"? Was it API? "Full Moon Fever" was API, really?

1st December 2005, 05:32 PM	#50
softwareguy Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 390	If you go on the Sunset Sound Studios site, www.sunsetsound.com, they list Full Moon Fever as one of their reference albums for Studio 1, which is a custom modded API, that I understand to be very similar (nickel trannies, 990's) to the Studio 3 modded API that Roundbadge discusses in an earlier post. It's an interesting site to look through for "LA Sound" references as well as for the Neve/API thing.

29th January 2006, 06:16 PM	#51
benelli Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 87	lanois I did a quick session at Kingsway in New Orleans in 1999. It was the most massive API console I've ever seen, even though I've only seen a few. I mean, it was HUGE. I think the eq's were 560's - they were graphic, at least. Mackie monitors. The sound of the console, I dunno how to say it any other way, but it was TOUGH. I think a console like this would win an armwrestle with a classic Neve or something like that. But at the same time, I think the Neve would win in a debate over foreign policy or healthcare. WOW - I know also, being from New Orleans, that at some point, Nicholas Cage bought Kingsway studio - at least - that was the buzz in the music world. This would have been years ago. I wonder what the hell happened to that console? The only corroboration about Nicholas Cage being invovled in a transaction was something that my father read in the paper at the time. Does anyone know what happened to that console, if that studio is still funtional, if it was ever sold? It's a great and very atmospheric building - old, not necessarily decayed, but - mystical somehow. Again, please forgive the thread hijack. best to all, _J_ www.telefontelaviv.com Also - please forgive my thread hijack, folks - they had Reich-era Neumanns there, replete with swastikas. I don't think they used them; I would assume they were there for collector's value.

27th June 2008, 09:16 PM	#56
Sigma Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: phallicdelphia Posts: 2,445	even if you were there 33% of stuff said about sessions is generally BS or drug blotted memories you should hear the stories about what was supposed to been used in our rooms during sessions bottom line on the session engineering or the production money i'd want to ride on... all the best equipment in the world and a mediocre song and a 4 track tascam recorder,crappy board and a hit..i'd take the tascam...normal people listen to the song..we are the geek squad..err at least some all i think about when someone says neve or api in the most general sense ..is scapel or chainsaw.. __________________ I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem - the most important of all human problems"....alberta weintsein " Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats." http://www.myspace.com/miketarsia http://miketarsia.com

27th June 2008, 09:23 PM	#57
rackdude Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 689	I think someone has to have a shootout thing between an API and a Neve. Listening Sessions? __________________

27th June 2008, 09:23 PM	#58
danbronson Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 519	Heh, I meant modern, with ridiculous performance specs. Neves and APIs are pretty old. What (high quality) preamp sounds like 2008?

27th June 2008, 10:10 PM	#60
msmith Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 59	This is a grey area to me because, for me, its more about how the unit responds. I mean , they both have a very different signature that they impart on the source, but that doesnt necessarily become that apparent in the final mix. What makes the difference of these items obvious to me, is the way that they respond when Im working with them. Good tools, and great varied results...