Schools!

[AgonizingpaiN]

I just got accepted into the UCLAextension recording engineering program!!! They claim that it's mainly proffessional training, and thats wut I want. Does anybody know if it's any good? Is it worth the money? I start this winter.

[Jules]

Congrats!

[Fletcher]

From what I've seen... the kidz that come out of it are better than most... couple that with a 'general assistant' gig at a real studio and you're probably well on your way to getting somewhere [or not].

[audioguy111]

HI,
Does anyone know of some good recording schools? Full Sail want ALOT of money.
I heard of one in Canada www.pacificav.com it is not expensive and in CAN dollars. Cold there though.
Advice anyone? Can I make a living as a engineer coming out of a school?

thanks
Guy

[Bloodz]

Yo dude its Vancouver, British Columbia. Its a wicked city and doesn't get very cold there. I'm contimplating going to school there myself.

[ixnys]

I went to the Los Angeles Recording Workshop. It's located in North Hollywood, CA. However I think they might be upgrading to a bigger facility this summer located somewhere else...still close by though. I wold reccommend this school to anybody interested in recording engineering. I believe it's very similar to Full Sail, but it's 6 months long (if I remember) with a 3 month internship. Depends whether you go full or part time. You get great experience with Neve, Oxford, and SSL consoles. You learn all the fundamentals about sound and audio engineering. It seems nowadays, if you want to get work as a recording engineer or start interning at a studio it helps to have a certificate from one of these audio programs.

Try visiting the site to get more info. www.recordingcareer.com

[fishtop_records]

Originally posted by audioguy111
Can I make a living as a engineer coming out of a school?

Unlikely.
No one is making money in the studio
business these days, except
the biggest and best. Small and
medium sized studios are closing and
selling out right and left.

Do yourself a favor, go to
some studios and ask them if they
care about schools, what they
want in a new hire, if they are hiring,
what do they pay, etc.

When you can rent a professional
studio with SSL console,
24 track tapes, LA2a and neumanns, with an engineer for $40 an hour,
how much do you think they pay
the engineer?

[Dot]

audioguy, here's an article on engineering as a career.
http://www.digitalprosound.com/2003/...ing_career.htm

[smoothmoniker]

If you want the experience without the bread, out here in LA there's a pretty hip program at a Junior College in Glendora (NorthEast of LA by 30 minutes or so) called Citrus. They build a couple of million dollar rooms, picked great gear! and have a monster mic locker. They've become industry tracking rooms (Buena Vista/Disney do a lot of tracking there), and the students all A2 on the sessions.

And, being a JC, it's like $60 a unit, or something like that.

-sm

[audioguy111]

Bloodz, You are right. It is in Vancouver. I hear they call it "vansterdam" and pot is legal there. It is on the pacific ocean next to the mountains so you can swim and ski there but its not too cold. I called and they will pay for your travel to visit if you sign up. Not sure if I could live a year in Canada though.

[Bob Olhsson]

Getting a great job is entirely about who knows what you know.

I'd look for schools that are CURRENTLY turning out successful artists and go THERE!

[e-cue]

I'd suggest going to the cheapest you can find. The Conservatory has pumped out some good peers and seconds and is much cheaper than the school I went to. Think of your 1st year out of school as an extra year of school; getting food runs, making coffee, scrubing toliets... Thanks where you really learn if you are eager and inquizitive. Good luck.

[jameslugo]

There is still $$$$ to be made in the recording business if you know how to sell! I'm living proof. I started a studio 2 years ago with no money, no credit, no experience and no formal education. I started with a digi001, an octopre and a Rode NTK. I now have a location on Hollywood Blvd. employing 3 engineers and running most days 24 hours a day.

My father was a successful car dealership owner in New York City for 30 years, made a fortune. He was a poor immagrant with a 5th grade education but he know how to sell and he had the biggest set of balls you could imagine, he's 80 years old and still a pisser!

People in LA talk about how you can't make any bread anymore. The equipment list on this page was bought and paid for in full in cash in the past year while I also supported a business, a wife, 2 kids, 3 cats, a mother-in-law, 1 dog, 3 lizards etc...
http://www.jameslugo.com/recording_studio.shtml

If you know how to get clients you will always come out on top. Salesmanship is where the $$$$ is, knob turning is just what I do between making bank deposits. lolol We all have a bright future if we choose it. Good luck, if there is anything I can do to help you just ask. -James

[fifthcircle]

Originally posted by smoothmoniker
If you want the experience without the bread, out here in LA there's a pretty hip program at a Junior College in Glendora (NorthEast of LA by 30 minutes or so) called Citrus. They build a couple of million dollar rooms, picked great gear! and have a monster mic locker. They've become industry tracking rooms (Buena Vista/Disney do a lot of tracking there), and the students all A2 on the sessions.

And, being a JC, it's like $60 a unit, or something like that.

-sm

If you take advantage of their beautiful facilities there, a lot can be offered at Citrus. However, I've met far too many graduates who don't even know basic signal flow and micing... They do know "Pro Tools" though.

If you want to go to school in LA, the only place I'd recommend is USC's music industry program. Not only do you get a good education on the sound end of things, but you have great musicians that you can record there (put together good demos for you and your friends), and you have many people at the top of the industry coming through there. In this business, it is just as important to have the contacts as it is to have the ability behind the board.

The program at USC is very expensive, but you get a full college education in it, not just some specialized training. My friends that have gone through the program are all doing quite well...

--Ben

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by fifthcircle
...If you want to go to school in LA, the only place I'd recommend is USC's music industry program...en

I'd almost say that's the place to go if you want to go to school period! I went to SSL "school" there and was very very impressed.

[stealthbalance]

pardon me , but i need to say this. for the most part , id forget about schools.
get a job at a studio as a runner and just work your way up. befriend people , come in on the weekend and record a friend band - and hang occationally with some mixer who is big league and happenning. you will learn so much more than any school will teach. bu the time you are ready to become a staff 2nd engineer, you will be able to just bypass all that bs and just go independant. put your own room together with a 002 or hd2 or something and build your own carreer. whether you are sitting behind a ssl k or behind a pro tools rig , the process is the same. recording or mixing , its the same. unless you really want to know alot of technical facts and are plannning to design gear and stuff , i would forget school. go be someones personal runner for free that you really respect. you will learn more than you ever could in school.
MVHO
s

[ixnys]

word

[entropy]

I'm with Stealth on this one.

The only one who benefits going to a school is the dude who owns the school.

Get in somewhere at the sharp end, do it for free, get on some real sessions and keep your head down. Work like a bastard, don't sleep and get friendly with those who use the joint, they just may request you on the next session.

good luck

[fishtop_records]

Originally posted by entropy

The only one who benefits going to a school is the dude who owns the school.

hush. Don't let the secret out.

You can spend big bucks to go to school
and then get a "job" that will pay
nothing or next to nothing while
you learn the trade, or you
can get a job that pays next to nothing
while you learn and network.

Next: secrets of making big
bucks in your basement studio.....

[GearGuy]

Full Sails recording students are generally some of the stupidest people I've run across. Sorry that this seems harsh, but most don't have a clue about engineering, mics, and general equipment knowledge outside of how an SSL works... so basically they can monkey a recording console.

On the flip side, I know of one guy who is pretty smart about audio to begin with, who started attending Full Sail. I'm baffled as to why he would spend the money... he thinks he needs this to get a job apparently. We'll see who is "better" when he gets done!

[grahluk]

Originally posted by stealthbalance
pardon me , but i need to say this. for the most part , id forget about schools.
get a job at a studio as a runner and just work your way up. befriend people , come in on the weekend and record a friend band - and hang occationally with some mixer who is big league and happenning. you will learn so much more than any school will teach. bu the time you are ready to become a staff 2nd engineer, you will be able to just bypass all that bs and just go independant. put your own room together with a 002 or hd2 or something and build your own carreer. whether you are sitting behind a ssl k or behind a pro tools rig , the process is the same. recording or mixing , its the same. unless you really want to know alot of technical facts and are plannning to design gear and stuff , i would forget school. go be someones personal runner for free that you really respect. you will learn more than you ever could in school.
MVHO
s

That is the best way to learn and by the time you know what you would have learned in one of the audio schools you will already have spent some time in the "real" world of clients and business. in addition you won't be coming to the situation thinking you already know what's up. Most individuals out of the schools are full of enthusiasm and are somehow deluded to their real prospects. There is then the learning time as an assistand or intern where you realize it's not exactly the way you figured it would be out of school. So what if you know the automation system of a SSL J series or are a chop suey protools editor. This reeducation period can be hard on people. You spent all this money, learned the concepts of a trade and now you're someone's do this and fetch boy.
Now here's the pisser. While stealthbalance's advice has the most merit unfortunately it is the old model. That sort of arrangement is getting scarcer. Pre protools and up to a few years ago commercial studios extravagant and modest were the hives and incubators of the trade. You had all strata of the profession under one roof so you could come in at the bottom and learn. When I say scarcer I mean there are less of these operations around. All but the most savvy or lucky mid level studios are drying up and most of the big name studios are trying all sorts of tactics to survive. Taking their place are a decentralized hordes of pro, semi pro, and amatuer individuals like those that inhabit this board. Myself included. Now those of us who have gotten our skills and contacts under the old model have to readjust to a more dispersed industry. That's fine. Hustle and carve out your niche. I'm concerned about those that are just now jumping in. There almost seems to be an inverse relationship between schools opening up or offering audio related courses and entry level positions available. So I'll second stealth's advice. I wouldn't wait 2 years and tens of thousands of dollars to try and get a runners gig. That money can be better served supporting you and obtaining a modest protools Mbox for your home to tinker on. The time is even more important. Who knows what the lay of the land will be in a couple years. A safe forcast would be that many more mid level and a couple world class studios will bite the dust. Of course there will still be some around, but only enough to supply the needs of the dispersed audio professionals working out of houses and basements.

[damon]

I went to college to learn for a year..........i think i learnt more my first week in a proper studio environment . Good luck which ever route you take !

[7rojo7]

I had a girlfriend that went to a recording school, she got a job as a studio manager. I went to school with her a couple of times and I read all her books. I'd already been working in studios for a couple of years as an assistant and doing recording projects for my bands and some friends bands.
You have to make the best out of any situation you can find.
At a school you can get your hands on some gear right away, I don't know if this is good though. Whatever you do you have to listen to those who know and really assist, be ready for anything, prepare two or three things in advance and not get upset if the engineer picks a fourth or fifth method.
Don't worry about money, just enjoy yourself and learn how to do this. I would choose a real school over a specialized recording only facility. You could get an associates degree that you could apply to your credits if you choose to study later in life.
Fredonia has a good program, Coral Gables, Berklee in Boston. With a degree you could most likely find work in the Film or TV industries more easily, they tend to look for stable people who know how to complete a project (like finishing a course). I know engineers who never went to school, some of them are good and some a little less good. A good buddy of mine went to Fredonia and he's pretty successful now. I've found that the people who are really the best really love what they do and that love gives them the enrgy to study everyday and always improve. Unfortunately you can also find some very frustrated people with strange ego problems. break a leg.

[Bloodz]

Hey guys,

I'm considering a move to Vancouver for school. I have obtained a Marketing diploma and now look to pursue some formal training from the pros of the audio world. Hopfully, after all my debt has settled, and my brain swells with recently gained knowledge, will I then have completed a diploma in Audio Engineering and a Degree in Marketing. I love Vancouver, this could almost be an excuse to move there. I would like to pursue this field properlly, could you please recommend an institue offering a solid recording program in the Vancouver area? My top choices so far are the Art institute of Vancouver(Burnaby) and PAVI in mount pleasant. Are there any others worth considering?

havn't posted here in a while, hope all is well with everyone!

Mucho grassy ass,
Bloodz

[Travl]

Ive acually just applied at the Art institute in Burnaby, for Visual Effects. I start July 6th. But I did check out their audio facilities because I will have full access to their studios 24/7. They have 2 main studios, one with a surround sound setup and a pro-control and the other with a bigger analog board. Studio 1 with the analog board had 2 iso rooms and a nice looking live room. Studio 2 has a smaller isolated live room that I think is mainly used for folley. I didnt get to see what kind of board was in studio 1. I think possibly soundcraft BUT>> They told me that they are putting in a brand new mixer very soon which got me excited. My admissions person had no clue as to what kind of mixer though. If they put in a J series SSL I'll be in heaven(keep dreaming). Id say its worth a check out if you really are looking at getting into audio engineering. I like the fact the studios are open 24/7 for bookings. The school is VERY expensive however. I am basically justifying my expense for this because of the free studio time(+ a job after im done). Anyway, if you have any more questions you can email me at moog@shaw.ca or PM. I can also put you in contact with someone at the school if you are interested further. Hope this info helps you out a bit in your quest. Talk to you soon.

Ben

[Jose Mrochek]

www.fullsail.com


but then again.. do this only if you plan to intern/assist at a high end commercial facility. If planning to open up you're own home studio PT setup, save the money and go gear shopping and learn on your own.

[Henchman]

FYI, there is no music industry in Vancouver whatsoever/ It's one of the most boring cities I've ever lived in.
You won't be able to get any kind of half decent paying job once you get out of school.

Don't waste the almost $20k minimum you'll spend on getting a lame degree from any of the schools.

Go to BCIT, take a Pro-Tools course and an electrronics course so youy can also be a tech.
You'll have more chances of getting a position in a studio if you actually know something usefull, like how to fix gear etc.

Then, save as much money as you can and go to Los Angeles or London, UK, where there's a proper industry.
I know the UK has a special visa for people under 28 who want to live and work there for awhile.

[John_McEnroe]

I agree with henchman, I know several people who have dropped $25,000++ on an audio degree and are now working at Long+McQuade or Tom Lee. I think you would be better spending the $25,000 on gear and just teaching yourself how to use it.


The whole audio school thing is the biggest scam going. Same thing as Vancouver Film School.

[dasbin]

Yup, there's barely any music scene here at all. Frankly you'd have much better luck going to a smaller but more artsy city like Victoria (nicer anyway) or Quebec City (same). Even Calgary whoops Vancouver's ass in terms of sheer number of local bands and shows/venues per night and people with money who want to record.
Anyone here who wants to record is either a completely poor student, or a Top 10 band going to Greenhouse. There's really not much market for the middle ground between $10 and $150/hour here. I'd offer you a job at my $30/hour place but I'm only able to find a paying band like once a month these days.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by dasbin

Anyone here who wants to record is either a completely poor student, or a Top 10 band going to Greenhouse. There's really not much market for the middle ground between $10 and $150/hour here.

Top 10 bands know better than to go to Greenhouse.
And the middle market was destroyed when Greenhouse started renting out SSL rooms for $300,- per day. This started 10 years ago. They singlehandedly wiped out an industry here.