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Umlaaat
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#1
25th April 2010
Old 25th April 2010
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2 Compressor Questions:

When you set auto release on, does adjusting the release have no effect?

What are the positive values on the threshold for (like on an ssl channel)?
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25th April 2010
Old 25th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
When you set auto release on, does adjusting the release have no effect?

What are the positive values on the threshold for (like on an ssl channel)?
Depends on the tempo of the song, I use auto a lot but there is some times I will bring it down.

Threshold can be to much if over used.
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25th April 2010
Old 25th April 2010
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Most hardware (at least, that I've used) doesn't care where your release knob is set if "Auto" is engaged. Although, come to think of it, most hardware (that I've used) uses the release knob to select "Auto" mode, so you can't really get around that anyway.

I've come across some plugins that seem to pay attention to where the release setting is, even with Auto mode engaged. I think the Waves Rcomp does this (??). Not 100% sure, though; I don't use a lot of plugin compression.

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out on a piece-by-piece basis, though, if you're wondering about specific gear. Pump something bottom-heavy and transient-heavy through, like a kick or a short bass guitar note, and play around. It oughta be relatively easy to hear the release times, or, at the very least, watch the GR meter for changes in behavior.

As for positive values on thresholds, once upon a time, in a dark and distant land before the age of the DAW, 0dB was not the absolute maximum level a signal could reach before clipping. 0dB would indicate nominal operating levels, and the positive values above zero would be your headroom. So, a console like an SSL, which has a good chunk of headroom (what, like +26dB or so?) will need a compressor whose threshold can be set accordingly.
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Umlaaat
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26th April 2010
Old 26th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Most hardware (at least, that I've used) doesn't care where your release knob is set if "Auto" is engaged. Although, come to think of it, most hardware (that I've used) uses the release knob to select "Auto" mode, so you can't really get around that anyway.

I've come across some plugins that seem to pay attention to where the release setting is, even with Auto mode engaged. I think the Waves Rcomp does this (??). Not 100% sure, though; I don't use a lot of plugin compression.

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out on a piece-by-piece basis, though, if you're wondering about specific gear. Pump something bottom-heavy and transient-heavy through, like a kick or a short bass guitar note, and play around. It oughta be relatively easy to hear the release times, or, at the very least, watch the GR meter for changes in behavior.

As for positive values on thresholds, once upon a time, in a dark and distant land before the age of the DAW, 0dB was not the absolute maximum level a signal could reach before clipping. 0dB would indicate nominal operating levels, and the positive values above zero would be your headroom. So, a console like an SSL, which has a good chunk of headroom (what, like +26dB or so?) will need a compressor whose threshold can be set accordingly.

So would you say the maximum positive value would be substitued for 0?
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26th April 2010
Old 26th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
So would you say the maximum positive value would be substitued for 0?
I don't understand the question. What max positive value? And what 0?
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26th April 2010
Old 26th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I don't understand the question. What max positive value? And what 0?
well, normally on digital comps the thresholds range from 0db to lets say -25db.

if the range of the threshold was say +5 to -20, is it as if +5 is the equivalent of 0?

as in, does it really even matter that it goes into positive values because its all just a range from no compression to full compression?
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26th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
well, normally on digital comps the thresholds range from 0db to lets say -25db.

if the range of the threshold was say +5 to -20, is it as if +5 is the equivalent of 0?

as in, does it really even matter that it goes into positive values because its all just a range from no compression to full compression?
No, that's not how it works.
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26th April 2010
Old 26th April 2010
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Think we need to go right back to basics here.

Digital (ie plugin) compressors: Threshold will start at 0 because audio cannot go higher than 0dBFS - ie in digital land 0 = absolute maximum

Analogue (ie 'real life') compressors: Threshold will go above 0 because it refers to 0dBVU - ie 0 in analogue land is a completely different level than 0 in digital land.



To put it bluntly:

0dB in analogue land = -18dB in digital land (depending on who you ask, but there or thereabouts).





Occasionally a digital compressor will have positive values on the threshold but only because it is emulating analogue compressors.
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26th April 2010
Old 26th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple View Post
Think we need to go right back to basics here.

Digital (ie plugin) compressors: Threshold will start at 0 because audio cannot go higher than 0dBFS - ie in digital land 0 = absolute maximum

Analogue (ie 'real life') compressors: Threshold will go above 0 because it refers to 0dBVU - ie 0 in analogue land is a completely different level than 0 in digital land.



To put it bluntly:

0dB in analogue land = -18dB in digital land (depending on who you ask, but there or thereabouts).





Occasionally a digital compressor will have positive values on the threshold but only because it is emulating analogue compressors.

so, regardless of the values it ranges from no compression to full compression...?
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26th April 2010
Old 26th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
so, regardless of the values it ranges from no compression to full compression...?
We're talking threshold, you're talking ratio
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27th April 2010
Old 27th April 2010
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I think the OP kinda has the right idea, but is just wording questions in a strange and confusing way.

Just use your ears, and if they fail then use the meters to see what is going on.
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27th April 2010
Old 27th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb RIOU View Post
We're talking threshold, you're talking ratio

no, i'm talking threshold.
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27th April 2010
Old 27th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple View Post
I think the OP kinda has the right idea, but is just wording questions in a strange and confusing way.

Just use your ears, and if they fail then use the meters to see what is going on.


yes, mebbe it is the wording... what i was concerned about originally was if you set the threshold to a positive value, would it turn into an expander...?

but I'm guessing from previous comments that it is really just a range from full to off.
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27th April 2010
Old 27th April 2010
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If you keep on talking of "full on " and "off", I'll keep on assuming you're talking ratio, or attack.
If you a apply compression at a very low threshold an a even lower signal level, say - 35dBFS Thres setting on a -40dBFS signal, your compressor won't compress a thing.
If you apply the same amount of compression at the same threshold on a -10dBFS signal, then the needle will sure bounce.

Threshold and ratio are relative to the signal you are treating. They're not absolute values. A "full on" setting can pretty much be "off" for a different signal.

As for the positive value, as BGRotto, this is in analog world.
In the computer, it's just cosmetic.
Think of it as the maximum headroom of the device (O dBFS, like you
guessed)

Expanders are a totally different matter. Your compressor will not turn into an expander when you pass 12 o'clock on the pot.

Nor if you feed the compressor after midnite, or throw it in the water.
If you are gentle with it, it might sing though :-)
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27th April 2010
Old 27th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb RIOU View Post
If you keep on talking of "full on " and "off", I'll keep on assuming you're talking ratio, or attack.
If you a apply compression at a very low threshold an a even lower signal level, say - 35dBFS Thres setting on a -40dBFS signal, your compressor won't compress a thing.
If you apply the same amount of compression at the same threshold on a -10dBFS signal, then the needle will sure bounce.

Threshold and ratio are relative to the signal you are treating. They're not absolute values. A "full on" setting can pretty much be "off" for a different signal.

As for the positive value, as BGRotto, this is in analog world.
In the computer, it's just cosmetic.
Think of it as the maximum headroom of the device (O dBFS, like you
guessed)

Expanders are a totally different matter. Your compressor will not turn into an expander when you pass 12 o'clock on the pot.

Nor if you feed the compressor after midnite, or throw it in the water.
If you are gentle with it, it might sing though :-)

ah yes.
cosmetic.

perfect wording.

so as opposed to "full on" and "off", we can say "very little" and "very-a-lot"?

and positive values have no affect other than its cosmetics.. to "emulate" analog compressors..

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