Is anyone familiar with the Amek-Big by Langely? I need advice on a Pre-amp!!!

[jlacck]

Hi everyone, I was just wondering if anyone here has any experience with an Amek Big Console. There was a studio that I used to record in that had this console and I thought it had a really great sound that was perfect for the type of music I like to do (I thought the console was very clean with a very nice tight and punchy sound. I was also quite fond of its warmth). However, the studio upgraded to a different console, and there's no one else near by that uses the Amek Big.

Since I don't want to buy the actual console I was wondering if anyone might know of any pres or channel strips that has a sound thats very similar to the Amek's Big by Langely console (if not dead on).

I would assume the Amek 9890's Mic Pre's and Pure Path CIB are probably similar to the tonal qualities I described considering they are all from the same manufacturer, however, I've never heard any of the Amek pres.

Can anyone with any experiences using either of these units comment on whether these pre's (or any other) offer a simliar quality as the console? I would appreciate any feedback I can get. Thanks

[Jay Kahrs]

The 9098 pre/EQ sounds WAY better then the mic amp on the Big. It's a totally different circuit with transformer I/O and a lot more headroom, more open sounding and generally...just has more 'balls' and the CIB again is more musical and bigger.

But really, if you're looking for something that sounds like the mic amps on a Big, well...pretty much anything will be equal or better. I always thought those desks sounded like a Smackie. Maybe one of those Aphex things would do 'ya well, but I'd look for something better.

YMMV.

[JTR]

Hi jlacck


what Jay said -

I wrote out a long list of its shortcomings, but didn't bother posting, as you aren't in the market for an actual console

having used the Big extensively for the last 6-7 years, I wouldn't use your adjectives to describe the mic pre, or anything else in the desk, for that matter;
any discussion about the Big always includes
"But lots of features for the price"

But hey, beauty is in the eye, and YMMV, so if you like 'em, go for it

but I'd urge you to audition any of the really good mic-pre's available these days, and see if your opinion of the Big still stands.

good luck!

[jlacck]

Jay, thanks for your reply.

I guess I just like how the board sounded when we ran our multi-tracks through it to mix. So in a sense, I guess you could say I liked how its "line inputs" sounded on my music. We never used its Mic Pre Amp. If the 9098 or the CIB sounds just as good or even better, then I should probably look towards one of those units for that purported "Amek" sound that I desire.

However, I'm mostly looking for something to track my synths and drum samples through. And since we do a lot of mixing in the box now a days, I'd like to find a way to impart the character that I want onto my tracks so that I don't have to spend time trying to recreate it in the DAW. Maybe I could buy some sort of summing buss that can give me that tight punchy and warm sound. Is this perhaps a better way to go?

[Jay Kahrs]

Honestly, you'd be better off working on your engineering and mixing skills then hunting for a "magik box" that's going to make everything 'better'. Try to use as much gear as you can, but borrow, rent or use it at other studios and figure out what's working for you and what sucks. The stuff that I like & use might be stuff that someone else hates...none of it matters in the end as long as the music is good and the equipment doesn't get in the way of your work flow.

They're all just tools...a carpenter wouldn't use a screw gun to drive nails, but sometimes he'll use a #2 Phillips and sometimes it's a #0 or maybe the screwgun IS the best tool for the job. For me ITB vs. OTB is more of a work flow issue then a sonic issue.

In your case, maybe you should spend $1000 on a used Smackie 8-bus and get a couple of great preamps to track everything through and put on the back end of it for make-up gain. That's what I would do...but that might not work for you. That's why we say YMMV. Your Milage May Vary. The first time I mixed on a Big I walked away scratching my head and wondering why a console called "Big" made everything sound "small". But hey, if you like it great! Plenty of people use 'em and make good records on them...so whudda I know? Just that IMO, it sucks.

YMMV.

[Mike Lapchick]

9098's 90% of the time at my place. They are fabulous.

[jlacck]

Hello everyone, thanks again for your replies. I respect everyone's opinions of the Big console, and while I definitely don't think it is the "Holy Grail" of consoles, I have to say that its probably the best that I've heard out of all the consoles I've had experience with in the studio's I've visited or recorded in(which unfortunately doesn't include any of the "big boys" consoles). I've recorded and/or mixed on an Alesis X2, a Behringer MX8000, Mackie D8bus and its analog 8bus counterpart. I've also used a Trident console (can't remember which series), a Neotek Elite (or whatever its called) and probably a few other boards that aren't even worth remembering or mentioning. I've also mixed in the box on Pro Tools and I have to say I hated the straight in the box sound of pro tools more than anything (it was way too clean IMO)

As you can see, all of these are typically "project studio" type of consoles, so the Big probably fits within that area of studios. (Now, I can't remember for sure, but I think the studio that had the Big console had the inputs modified on the board. I don't know what modifications were done, but I recall hearing something about the board being outfitted with some sort of modifications. <-- perhaps this contributed to the sound I was hearing maybe? )

In any case, I don't do any mixing; I just track my projects and take them to my engineer for recording vocals and mixing. Now, while I think my engineer is GREAT, and our mixes usually turned out fantastic on the sonic level, I still feel like there's that something that's missing that I honestly think comes from the sound of "what you're putting you're tracks/mixes through". For the pros, this is usually probably the pre-amps and the board that the tracks are running through (for those who still rely on mixing out of the box).

I'm not so much looking for a "magic box" thats gonna do everything for me. What I'm looking for are some opinions on what tools I can use to get me closer to the sound that I'm hoping to achieve. One thing I've learned in my all my experience recording as well as reading these forums is that the mix phase actually starts during the tracking phase. In other words, I guess approx. 75% of how a mix will sound is dictated by how the song was tracked. So that leads me to believe that if I want my mixes to sound the way I hear it in my head, then I need to track it like that (at least in terms of having the sonic characteristics that I want the individual tracks to have. So, if the Big is frowned upon in these circles, what would you guys recommend as an alternative to achieve a warm but tight and punchy characteristic for tracking.

[jlacck]

>>>9098's 90% of the time at my place. They are fabulous.<<<

By the way Mike, you used the 9098 90% of the time... what pre's are you using the other 10% of the time?

[JTR]

Ahh, the stealth "what mic pre?" question again!

there's a link at the bottom of the thread page which might steer you to some info -

And yes, it's possible you were hearing a Big with a modded master section
with the exception of the Neotek, which is in a class above all the other boards you listed, most of those fall into the "mid-fi" range of audio gear
Tridents are hit or miss, depending on the model

but back to your point;

I suggest doing a few searches here on frontend options for tracking, get a sense of the whole topic, and currently popular (or unpopular) models -
and then, if possible, rent or otherwise audition possible choices available in your locale.

you seem to be as yet undecided about whether to look into frontends or summing boxes; best to take your time, & figure out what will help you the most, given your budget.

or just go out and drop 8k on a pair of Neve reissues

and have fun with your search!

[jlacck]

JTR- I'll probably leave the summing box option to my engineer since he pretty much does all of my mixes (at least the stuff I plan to release or send to the label reps). But if I happen to stumble upon a box that gives me the sound I'm looking for, I'll probably purchase it and have my engineer use it for me when he mixes my material (I think he's looking into an API 8200 or whatever its called for a summing buss).

As for me, I'm definitely working on my front end now. I can probably spend up to $3500 on something, but I want more than ONE sound as I might want my synths or other instruments to have a different sound than my drums and bass. I think the biggest issue for me is that I don't have the luxury of renting and trying out gear like some of the other guys on this forum does. My town (Denver) only has one rental place and its gear list isn't as exotic compared to some places such as the Nashvilles or New Yorks and L.As. In fact, I've heard a lot of the items on this company's list, and most of it I'm not intersted in (they do have some Neve 1073 pres, but when we tried to use em, something was busted on the pres and they sounded like crap!!! The rental guy acknowledged something was wrong and gave us a refund, but we haven't tried to rent it again).

Anyway, my point is, I have to rely on other people's experience here and try to gather from that the information that I think is relevant to my needs. So far, I've noticed a few things that seem to keep being mentioned over and over as excellent units: The Distressor and the Great River Mic Pres and Speck EQ (for those who need a great EQ on a budget). <--- hmmmm...that actually sounds like that would probably make for great front end chain

Anyway, I've never actually heard any of these units, but I'd be a little weary about taking the plunge on things I've never heard before. Looks like I've gots to keep digging through those archives again.

[GPl]

What about Mercenary's? You could start out with a few peices, try them out, send them back, try out out another set till you find that SOUND you are after. Otherwise, something like MY choice in pre's or what I heard in the past on all the great varieties out there isn't going to be the same for you. Doing a search will get you alot of info here also, but I think it's more about what you hear, not what someone else is hearing. Hope that helps some.

Good Luck! thumbsup

[jlacck]

How does Mercenary work? Do I pay for the pieces in full, and keep receiving and sending them back until I find something I like?

[Slipperman]

I love the "Big".

I had 3 of them at one point.

Still got one.

Runs like a top. Chock full of features. Sonics are fine for rock stuff. Pre's included in that assessment.

Milage is indeed varying here at GearSlutz.

SM.

[The MPCist]

jlacck, if you like the BIG that much I would suggest buyng one.. they are pretty cheap these days and probably you could get one for the price of a few outboard units.

[jlacck]

MPCist- if I were going to run a commercial facility I'd probably consider buying a Big console, but I'm not sure if I want that much real estate taking up space in my studio. I just think that considering what I do, it might be a bit of "overkill" to have such a huge thing sitting in my studio. I'm also more or less a private engineer, but definitely a producer first, so I mainly look for tools that help me get certain sonic signatures for the tracks that I produce.

Logically, I would believe that there are outboard gears that sound just as good if not better than the Big; so my goal is to find out and investigate what gear that is. I guess that's pretty much what this thread is about:

"What are some items that are just as good if not better than the Big that can offer the type of sonic characteristics that I seek".

Of course there is no one unit that does it all, but I think if I can find a unit (or units) that offers enough tweakability to allow me to manipulate a wider range of sounds, I'd be off to a good start.

I am kind of curious about the Amek CIB since its made by the same company, but I'm sure the CIB is probably a 1000 times better than the Big. But is this a versatile unit or would I be stuck with ONE sound? Know what I mean?