Login / Register
 
I miss rewinding tape
New Reply
Subscribe
gainreduction
Thread Starter
#1
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #1
Lives for gear
 
gainreduction's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,696

Thread Starter
gainreduction is offline
I miss rewinding tape

I really miss that short break you got when you pressed locate on the tape recorder and waited for the tape to rewind and locate. That was a breath of fresh air in the studio that's gone now. In DAW-land you go back in a second and you hear the damn song all the time, no breaks.

What was fresh about that small down time was that once the music played again your ears and brain was a tiny bit more fresh. And during that down time a conversation may start that makes the break even longer which makes the music even more fresh once you hear it again. I really miss that.

Another thing I miss about tape is that you listened to longer runs of the song, from top to end even a lot of times. Looping a verse 100 times in a DAW makes me puke now. I felt more creative on tape, maybe 'coz it was more limited than a DAW.

Now I'll stop whining and go back to staring at the screen and not listening.

Oh, what I DON'T miss about tape is (when mixing) trying to eq the only hit on the floor tom that's in the song. Gotta love a loop in DAW for that.
#2
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Bishbashbosh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: London
Posts: 646

Bishbashbosh is offline
Try installing an AVID Mojo on your system.....
That should add several seconds break between pressing play and hearing a sound......
#3
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 
thenewyear's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Scotland

thenewyear is offline
I also like the rewind break. Someone else mentioned this magical period of time just recently on GS.

Anyway I am feeling pretty lucky, my computer is totally knackered and without it all my digi hardware is only so much paperweights.

As a result I've been recording onto tape for a couple of weeks now and there is nothing quite like it to inspire creativity.
__________________
neil.
#4
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #4
Lives for gear
 
opentune's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: good ol´germany
Posts: 1,554

opentune is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction
Oh, what I DON'T miss about tape is (when mixing) trying to eq the only hit on the floor tom that's in the song. Gotta love a loop in DAW for that.
Whenever i had to work with tape (1" 24 track or ADAT), i let the drummer
play a long tom pattern on a free piece of tape. So i was able to process
the toms and then i went back to the song to do some small changes.

Try that next time you have to record on tape.

I don´t miss that "short break" when the ADATs ate my tapes...
#5
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,246

Bob Ross is offline
You think *you* miss rewind time, ask the poor schmuck in the booth doing take after take while you keep saying
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
11413
#6
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #6
11413
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
"Let's try that again, rolling."
4 ****ing hours on one vocal line with the BRC and he still sang it flat... ARRRRGH.

NEVER again...
#7
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Jamz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Bucks County/Philly, PA
Posts: 2,377
My Recordings/Credits

Jamz is offline
Personally I do not miss the rewind time. That said, whenever a client whinces over a computer hiccup I am tempted to remind or educate them as to how much time they're saving just by not having to rewind and find locate points .
#8
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #8
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 21,148

theblue1 is offline
Hell... I just remember what an amazing thing it was when I finally got a four track in my home studio with a proper zero-stop. My first four track was an old TASCAM 'knife-switch' (3340?)... you couldn't go from rewind to stop without having a big risk of stretching or even snapping your tape. You had to slide straight from Rewind to FF in order to use the motors for breaking.
#9
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #9
Lives for gear
 
GYMusic's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Santa Ynez, Marxifornia
Posts: 880
My Studio

GYMusic is offline
Noithin' like the smell of opening a fresh reel...
#10
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #10
Lives for gear
 
zarembo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 631

zarembo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYMusic
Noithin' like the smell of opening a fresh reel...

AMEN to that!!
#11
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,246

Bob Ross is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1
You had to slide straight from Rewind to FF in order to use the motors for breaking.
I learned on an ancient Ampex 300 1" 8-track and developed that same practice, such that to this day I've done that on not only every analog reel-to-reel deck I've ever used (folks tell me I can beat on the A800 but force of habit keeps me treating them gently) but also on MDMs & DAWs! Folks look at me like I'm an idiot when I absent-mindedly start rocking the Rew-FF buttons on a HUI!
#12
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
gear is cool's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: seattle
Posts: 880

gear is cool is offline
different strokes for different folks...i love the tape rewind, my sessions go much quicker on analog, i end up not having to edit/cross fade etc. the crap out of everything...and it sounds soooo much better...it's just what i dig and my clients prefer rolling tape...i love the few moments of rewind to talk to the client and maybe tell a joke or 2 just to get his/her mind off of "it" for a sec.

if the poor schmuck does take after take they is getting a lot poorer with each one.... maybe should come back another day when he/she is feeling it or perhaps he/she just plain sux and it ain't my gig to turn schafer into champaine
#13
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #13
Lives for gear
 
yeloocproducer's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: los angeles
Posts: 1,761

yeloocproducer is offline
It's the studio equivalent of taking a drag////
#14
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #14
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Earth, NYC metro
Posts: 5,907
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via AIM to Jay Kahrs Send a message via Skype™ to Jay Kahrs
Jay Kahrs is offline
I dig analog too...it's more then just the rewind time. A properly aligned tape machine has so much depth & dimension it's sick...actually, it just sounds like a record!

I approach a DAW with the same mindset and it's not so bad. Nobody's forcing you to hit play after the 'instant' rewind. Sometimes I'll scrub back through the audio or just wait a couple seconds while I fiddle with something else like a producer panel. On the flip side, sometimes it's great to be able to hit stop and instantly start again. If there's a trainwreak nine bars into the take you can start again instantly while everyone's in the moment rather then hitting stop, rewind...wait 20 seconds for the reels to rock back to zero and then rolling again.
__________________
J. 'Moose' Kahrs
producer|mixer|recordist
MooseAudio.com
mooseaudio.bandcamp.com
Quote:
All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...
#15
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: São Paulo/NYC
Posts: 1,231
My Recordings/Credits

Ricey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
You think *you* miss rewind time, ask the poor schmuck in the booth doing take after take while you keep saying
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."
"Let's try that again, rolling."

yes, rewinding during overdubs is a beeotch and nobody misses that.
but for mixing, i love tape. avoiding the whole "audio quality argument" black hole- the rewind and the lack of a screen are both big points when trying to listen to something.
#16
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,246

Bob Ross is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey
yes, rewinding during overdubs is a beeotch and nobody misses that.
Actually, you missed my point: I think rewind time is a *good* thing as far as the artist is concerned. Otherwise they get no breaks to recompose their thoughts between takes, they're just forced to crank it out instantaneously, take after take like an assembly line.
#17
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 
ImJohn's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,669

ImJohn is offline
Quote:
I really miss that short break you got when you pressed locate on the tape recorder and waited for the tape to rewind and locate. That was a breath of fresh air in the studio that's gone now. In DAW-land you go back in a second and you hear the damn song all the time, no breaks.

So, just defrag your your hard drives often. You don't get as many breaks but a defrag will probably give you a longer one than a tape rewind.

No fresh tape smell though!
__________________
John L Rice
http://www.youtube.com/JohnLRice
#18
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: São Paulo/NYC
Posts: 1,231
My Recordings/Credits

Ricey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
Actually, you missed my point: I think rewind time is a *good* thing as far as the artist is concerned. Otherwise they get no breaks to recompose their thoughts between takes, they're just forced to crank it out instantaneously, take after take like an assembly line.

ah, so. i did miss that! but i do find tracking vox on a DAW helpful, because you can hit record at exacty that moment the vocalist is ready('that' moment being an intuitive thing between each singer/engineer), whether that means waiting a beat or not... also, it's added another lifetime to the transport on my machine
#19
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #19
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 21,148

theblue1 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
I learned on an ancient Ampex 300 1" 8-track and developed that same practice, such that to this day I've done that on not only every analog reel-to-reel deck I've ever used (folks tell me I can beat on the A800 but force of habit keeps me treating them gently) but also on MDMs & DAWs! Folks look at me like I'm an idiot when I absent-mindedly start rocking the Rew-FF buttons on a HUI!
Now that I'm rooting around in my 80's memories, seems I recall a then-old 2" 16 track MCI deck we had to rock. I was there when someone 'panicked' and didn't. It was not pretty...

Them big ol' 2" reels have a lot of damn mass and consequent momentum.
#20
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #20
Lives for gear
 
paultools's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,278

paultools is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYMusic
Noithin' like the smell of opening a fresh reel...
226 was the sweetest
250 was the most toxic
456 was the most common

Wonder if you can get it in a can at a California car wash?
You can find just about anything else there!
__________________
We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them.
#21
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #21
Lives for gear
 
7 Hz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,237

7 Hz is offline
What I want to know is, what the heck happened to varipitch? Between the no-varipitch situation, no rewind break, no start / stop pick-up noises, and digital clocking issues, analogue still seems a more creative, professional medium.
#22
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #22
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 15,852

joeq is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
Actually, you missed my point: I think rewind time is a *good* thing as far as the artist is concerned. Otherwise they get no breaks to recompose their thoughts between takes, they're just forced to crank it out instantaneously, take after take like an assembly line.

But every artist needs a different time break to be ready for the next take. Its true that most want that break, but there are always a few artists who want to go go go - they are hot, they 'almost had it' and if you take too long to cue up the next pass they don't like that either.

The DAW gives you the option of waiting as long as you like to push that button or setting up loop record and letting the artist have at it non stop if that's what he wants.

It _does require some discipline, but there is no reason you couldn't give yourself some rewind time- a little break for the ears and mind- by hitting return to zero and then meditating a bit before hitting play. I have heard of people taking 5 minutes of silence every hour to 'replace' these rewind breaks and rest their ears. Kind of like saving up your sick days.


It would be cool if some programmers could make that a selection in the preferences- a "Tape Rewind" simulation . It would probably be very easy to implement. Hit rewind and it would take a few seconds (proportional to the amount of time being rewound)- and as it went, you would faintly hear the music chipmunking in reverse in the background.
#23
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #23
Lives for gear
 
John The Cut's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,116

John The Cut is offline
Well, you can do that.

Cubase has a jog/shuttle control and you can always hit '-' and wait for it to rewind manually.

But no one wants to do that! Why?

Because waiting for stuff to happen is boring
11413
#24
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #24
11413
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogWai
waiting for stuff to happen is boring
boredom is the precursor to creativity... some of the best mixes i've ever done sprang out of "hating" the song and wanting to destroy it...

destruction is not negative
#25
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #25
Lives for gear
 
John The Cut's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,116

John The Cut is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd world order
boredom is the precursor to creativity...
Ah.. and doing is the er.. way things get done .
#26
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #26
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Earth, NYC metro
Posts: 5,907
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via AIM to Jay Kahrs Send a message via Skype™ to Jay Kahrs
Jay Kahrs is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Hz
What I want to know is, what the heck happened to varipitch?
Beats the hell out of me...but yeah...I do miss vari-speed, that was a highly useful tool from both creative & corrective perspectives.
Guest
#27
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #27
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

I miss the way it ramps in when you hit play.
Nice and gentle on the ears.
Someone should create a plug that does that.

With the DAW it is like WHAM! harsh.

Even waiting for ADAT's to all sync up was better.


D
#28
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Jamz's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Bucks County/Philly, PA
Posts: 2,377
My Recordings/Credits

Jamz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Hz
What I want to know is, what the heck happened to varipitch?
PT + Sync IO provides VSO capabilties.
#29
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #29
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles - Atwater
Posts: 12,671

lucey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction
I really miss that short break you got when you pressed locate on the tape recorder and waited for the tape to rewind and locate. ...
Another thing I miss about tape is that you listened to longer runs of the song, from top to end even a lot of times. Looping a verse 100 times in a DAW makes me puke now.

Like breathing in, and out ... working with a big honkin' tape machine has a rhythm and gravitas (to use the trendy word) that can be used to advantage.


I miss mastering tape, the real performances and band integrity. Right about the time I could afford to upgrade the 2 track, work tailed off.
__________________
Brian Lucey
Mastering Engineer Recent #1 records: The Black Keys "Turn Blue", Ray LaMontagne "Supernova", Chet Faker "Built on Glass", Arctic Monkeys "AM"

Spiral Groove - Studio One - a truly useful nearfield mixing speaker
#30
11th November 2005
Old 11th November 2005
  #30
Lives for gear
 
themaidsroom's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: nyc / los angeles
Posts: 3,614

themaidsroom is offline
i love the smell..........
i use both every day.....

i can now almost picture the respective outlines of the sound in the room,
pre and post conversion, once it's digital, it's definitely coming from
the speakers and the space between them, before the conversion, the
sound seemed to be everywhere.....
the people who have the chops to work with tape are usually
easier to listen to repeatedly........




be well

- jack
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
paully / Geekslutz forum
5
dreamsongs / So much gear, so little time!
8
7rojo7 / So much gear, so little time!
1
Bren / The Moan Zone
2

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.