Any alternative HD interfaces out there ?

[HEDDcase]

I'm new, tried searching but can't with HD being under the minimum number of characters. So if this has been discussed please point me to the threads.

I'm ready to go to HD, but would like to know what alternatives there are to the Digi 192 I/O.

Does anyone make a cable that's AES/EBU on end and DB-25 on the other so that I can use my existing A/Ds ?

Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

[mdbeh]

For the most part, you're stuck with buying at least some Digi hardware. You can get a Digital 192, which has 16 channels of AES, TDIF, and ADAT i/o.

Also, I believe Prism has reverse-engineered the Digi spec, so you can hook up their converters directly to an HD rig without another interface.

[JBlake]

There's the MOTU HD192. I've read good things about them. Someone posted a file either here or on recording.org that A/B'd the HD192 and the Lucid AD 2496. The MOTU unit sounded significantly better to me at least.

[HEDDcase]

Originally posted by mdbeh
For the most part, you're stuck with buying at least some Digi hardware. You can get a Digital 192, which has 16 channels of AES, TDIF, and ADAT i/o.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I realize I need their hardware to some degree, just wondering besides Prism who is 'reverse engineering' for HD.

I have some great Benchmark converters, I think they're better sounding than the HDs. I'd like to be able to track in HD and use them but they output to XLR AES and the Digi 192 has DB25 connectors for AES. Maybe it's just a cable thing, or maybe there is more to the format change than that. I don't know.

[HEDDcase]

Originally posted by JBlake
There's the MOTU HD192. I've read good things about them. Someone posted a file either here or on recording.org that A/B'd the HD192 and the Lucid AD 2496. The MOTU unit sounded significantly better to me at least.

Yes, MOTU is making some great stuff, but I need to run HD with PT, that's what clients are asking for. And yes, I would agree there are a number of systems that sound better than HD.

[Jules]

If you buy the cheaper digital only i/o interface "Digi i/o" you can hang whatever 44.1 / 48 / 96 converters you like off it

[jazzius]

I think the way PT monopolize the hardware side of things is ridiculous......

...the digi 192 costs around $4000 for 16 digi outs........compare this to around $2000 for 96 channels of digi i/o using 4 RME Hammerfall's on mac or PC........

................the only possible justification for this price descrepency is that someone needs to drive an extremely nice car!

Of course, the digi 192 has waaay more features than a hammerfall card, but i reckon most people, given the choice, would go for loads of cheap ADAT i/o running to converters of their own choice.......

on the other hand....maybe it's this closed system/industry standard mentality that has made PT so popular.....people can turn up to a place they've never been before and know exactly what they're gonna be dealing with.......not having to pfaf around with some ADDA box they've never seen before...........

............oh, bollocks to that, it's just a big rip-off, aint it?

[Thermionic]

Jazzius, you got the nail on the head! Digidesign's marketting is something else . Never before (to my knowledge) has a vendor of studio hardware attained such a grip on the industry's psyche...The way they manipulate the media defies description.

9/10 "industry" folk I speak to want PT. When asked why, they state "Because it's best, everyone knows that, they can't all be wrong"...

PT has some cool features, but doesn't Gigastudio or DP?

I put the whole thing down to clever marketting. Currently my studio is for my own projects, but if I was to start engineering for clients again, I suspect there would be no option but to purchase a PT setup...Why? Media brainwashing perhaps?

................the only possible justification for this price descrepency is that someone needs to drive an extremely nice car!

Or maybe a nice house/boat/pair of loafers...

Of course, the digi 192 has waaay more features than a hammerfall card, but i reckon most people, given the choice, would go for loads of cheap ADAT i/o running to converters of their own choice.......

They would if they weren't bullied by Digidesign's sheer marketting aggression and control-freakery...

............oh, bollocks to that, it's just a big rip-off, aint it?

HEAR HEAR!

For the record, associates of mine have developed peripherals for PT. When asked about Digi's business-ethics, the term "cut-throat" was mentioned several times...

[JBlake]

Ahhh. I didn't know you were using ProTools. You could use the Mytek converters. They've got an expansion card that will connect to a PT system. I've heard good things about these too. Only 8 channels of 24/96 per unit though.

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by JBlake
Ahhh. I didn't know you were using ProTools. You could use the Mytek converters. They've got an expansion card that will connect to a PT system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Mytek's PT direct connect option was ever released.

So your options on HD are:
1. PT's convertors
OR
2. PT's digital dongles (w/whatever)
OR
3. Prism's 8 ch. Dream units (@ $10k a pop)

While I'm sure the Prisms are wonderful, personally speaking, if I were looking to drop $30-40k on friggin' convertors, I'd rather have a whole rack of Spiders and/or HEDDs for way less money!
I honestly can't think of anything thats guaranteed to depreciate faster than dfegaddigital convertors...

Originally posted by HEDDcase
Does anyone make a cable that's AES/EBU on end and DB-25 on the other so that I can use my existing A/Ds ?

Fairly standard config. Try any of the 'snakemakers': Hosa, Rapco, Proco, etc...[B]

[BattleAngel]

"While I'm sure the Prisms are wonderful, personally speaking, if I were looking to drop $30-40k on friggin' convertors, I'd rather have a whole rack of Spiders and/or HEDDs for way less money!"

Amen. Or Spiders with 192 like the HEDD... ;-) (I wish)

[blackcatdigi]

I really, really wish Dave Hill would make us a convertor only box.
Like 24 ch A/D & DAC in a 2-4 ru. Maybe even reverse engineer Digi's proprietary interfaces. That would be the shit.

Dreaming On...

[BattleAngel]

There's a lot of stuff that if Crane Song were to do it, I'd be a 100% Crane Song guy. As it is, it's the only company I swear allegience to. I'd love multiple tracks of CS 192 AD/DA. Even just 16 would suit me fine. And 16 channels of compression, eq, etc. ;-)

[HEDDcase]

Amen. Or Spiders with 192 like the HEDD... ;-) (I wish)

If only the HEDD really could do 192, it's currently limited to 96K. I spoke with Cranesong last week and Dave Hill still has yet to find chips that sound good at 192K.

[BattleAngel]

really! Well I haven't played with it- but I'm a fidelity nut (which is probably the lamest thing in the world especially because my acoustics aren't terrific) so I want him to find those damn chips! lol

[MIKEHARRIS]

The Prism is the only alternative...and during our testing it has revealed an apparent deficency in the AES inputs of PTHD. One of our clients recently returned the Spider as being just ok...when he left AES into his PTHD AES inputs...both Neve Capricorn and PTHD clocked by AArdsync. Prior to the release of the new PTHD direct card...one studio tried the Prism ADA-8...into PTHD via AES...and was not impressed by the Prism...yet when used with the direct PTHD card...clearly was superior. Maybe some techie should look into the AES implementaion of the HD192

[MIKEHARRIS]

BTW DB25's to XLR using digital cable should not be a problem...whose pinout config is the question

[HEDDcase]

Originally posted by MIKEHARRIS
BTW DB25's to XLR using digital cable should not be a problem...whose pinout config is the question

Thanks Mike, I didn't know if there was more involved in the format change.

I would be going from the AES XLR outputs of myBenchmark A/D to the input on the Digidesign HD 192 digital interface.

[atticus]

Digidesign makes the Dsub to XLr connector you need. It is listed in the perephials section of the Pro Tools HD section of their web page. Thanks for using our converters, and let me know how it works out for you.

[HEDDcase]

Originally posted by atticus
Digidesign makes the Dsub to XLr connector you need. It is listed in the perephials section of the Pro Tools HD section of their web page. Thanks for using our converters, and let me know how it works out for you.

Awesome, that's the best news I've had in a long time.

I've heard the Digi HD converters and they're good, but I still prefer the Benchmark at 96K, it's just much more musical.

Thanks for the help!

[Jules]

For MIKE HARRIS

Can you be more specific as to the AES issues?

I appreciate your in the trenches reports but that was kind of a vague outline of problems experienced....



One PITA for example would be if using 3rd party interfaces with the normal conversion delay times

To shake my digital voodoo witchdoctors stick, I would say two things.

1) There might be clashes with the self clocking method Digidesign invented when interfaced with 3rd party interfaces, after all, it was designed to be used ONLY with preparatory hardware.. 3rd part devices aren't recomended..

2) Any device that re-clocks incoming signal adds delay...

3) I really don't fully know what I am talking about, at all.

[HEDDcase]

Originally posted by Jules


1) There might be clashes with the self clocking method Digidesign invented when interfaced with 3rd party interfaces, after all, it was designed to be used ONLY with preparatory hardware.. 3rd part devices aren't recomended..

2) Any device that re-clocks incoming signal adds delay...

3) I really don't fully know what I am talking about, at all.

Atticus what do you think, will my 240896 have these issues with the Digi HD interface ?

[7rojo7]

proprietary?
I'm having this dilemma: I want an interface that will work with PTHD and OTHER PROGRAMS, this would mean the Prism. The 192 owners manual specifies PTHD program as a requirement for the functioning of the unit, they're not very nice; are they? As for sound the 192 will do, but I need 16 outs forcues and 8 for monitors and I don't want to commit to a box I won't be able to use with another program/computer. Is the Prism really 10k (dollars or pounds) a pop?

[atticus]

I think Jules might be talking about using an interface straight into the PT card, not into the described digital in. I wouldn't think that they would build an interface that doesn't give you usable digital ins, but I have been wrong before. My only personal experience with using our converters with a DIGI interface was when I took some of our DAC-104's to Dave Martins place. They were use in place of the 888's outputs, simply run off of the AES outs into his console. So latency problems wouldn't be an issue. I know that they are used in a lot of PT rigs and I haven't heard of any problems. Thanks.

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by HEDDcase
If only the HEDD really could do 192, it's currently limited to 96K. I spoke with Cranesong last week and Dave Hill still has yet to find chips that sound good at 192K.

BTW, did he happen to mention anything about the DACs for the Spider?

[MIKEHARRIS]

Jules...i really dont have a proper explanation...just puzzling situations.
1. The same Prism 8ch ADA...when connected to the HD192 via AES...yeilded unimpressive ressults...adding the PTHD card ..and bypassing the HD192..gave dramatic improved results...superior to every other converter tried incl the DBtech and HEDD...(but they were using AES)
2.Crane Song Spider is returned from evaluation with a "just OK"...hooked to a Neve Capricorn and PTHD. Is there any reason a Spider is "just OK"
Dont know what's goin on...but sumthin is

Jules...you know how to find me

[BattleAngel]

My crane song sounds way better than "OK" to my ears anyway!

[MIKEHARRIS]

I should get a PTHD direct card to Dave Hill.....best of both worlds...imagine..a Spider replacing a HD interface

[MIKEHARRIS]

I Know it does !!

[BattleAngel]

Mike... do it, and I'll be set for life ;-)