How to? Nickleback/ 3DD Guitar tone?

[Rogervandeberg]

Hello all,

I've been reading this forum for the last 5 months and it has been very helpful to me! I just registered so as a first post is would like to dicuss a topic which i couldnt find after searching the forum. I really want to know how the (imo) killer Nickleback or 3 doors down guitar tone is made.

I am mixing some own projects, but my experience is solely on acoustic material. Now am doing this project which really askes for such a distorted guitar tone and i was wondering how to get such a tone. Is it the amp? external EQ or compression?

I have a Line 6 Vetta (lots of Mesa, Fender and Marshall models in it, as well as boutique amps) and a collection of low and high output gibsons and fender guitars. So i have some choice regarding the starting point, the gear . I mix in Cubase SX with some external compressors and a TC Powercore MKII.

Does anyone has any suggestions?

Thanks in advance and greetings,

Roger

[C/G]

Depending on which album but the last N.B. album that came out before the latest one, they used Stevenson guitar amps while recording, even though they were sponsored by Mesa. I know because I know Mark Stevenson. Those dicks actually had the balls to ask for the amps for free after the session. Mark said fuuck

[T_R_S]

The more money you make the more free stuff you get from people who want to be your friends cause your famous.
Sorry off topic a bit ..
3 D gtr tone

Well how about one guitar being played through 6 different amps. Then double it , then do that again.

Use the same five chords on all of your albums. On every other album, use the same chord progression.

Use Drop D and C tuning.

Layer.

[everybody's x]

Ill spare you the sarcasm

with your gear your going to want to use the Gibson and the boogie models on the vetta
track them with a 57 at least two tracks on each side TIGHT doubles

back the gain down slightly as your doubles will accentuate the white noise

when you get pretty good at that you'll realize you want a real amp
buy an old marshall when you do thumbsup
have fun and welcome

[mogWai]

Originally Posted by Lowdbrent

Use the same five chords on all of your albums. On every other album, use the same chord progression.

Use Drop D and C tuning.

Layer.

LOL

Funny and true!!!

[everybody's x]

Originally Posted by mogWai

LOL

Funny and true!!!

yep but change it to E tuning and then you have the AC/DC sound
Nashville tuning the rolling stones sound

blahblah blaf

[Rogervandeberg]

Originally Posted by everybody's x

Ill spare you the sarcasm

with your gear your going to want to use the Gibson and the boogie models on the vetta
track them with a 57 at least two tracks on each side TIGHT doubles

back the gain down slightly as your doubles will accentuate the white noise

when you get pretty good at that you'll realize you want a real amp
buy an old marshall when you do thumbsup
have fun and welcome

Thanks for the tip, ill give it a try!

[Gregg Sartiano]

It's the amp, mostly. The hardest thing to fix in the mix is a weak distorted guitar tone.

Have your guitar professionally intonated and use fresh strings. Gee, I already said this in one topic tonight, but it's sooooo true.

Less is more with distortion. ev.x got that right. Less is also more with amps. How come the DSL Marshall kick a$$ over the 3-channel TSL's, just as the 1-channel JCM 800's are classics but the 2-channels are wack pieces of s^&t? Get rid of your dang pedals, by the way, at least for basic rhythm tracks -- don't even put 'em in between your guitar and your amp. I've seen that stupid white Boss Chromatic Tuner ruin more guitar tones...dammit, just hook it up to the line out, BUT KEEP IT AWAY FROM THE AMP'S INPUT!

Having a $$$ A/D converter will help on the recording side. Distorted guitar waveforms are verrrrry complex, and lackluster conversion really hurts you down the line with distorted guitar sounds. I'd take a Mackie and a Rosetta over an $$$ pre and a Digi for heavy guitars, but that's just me. If you have access to well-maintained $$$ gear all around (guitar, amp, mic (57's are cool, though), pre, A/D), you'll be halfway there already. And I must say a lot of the other half is TUNING and TIMING.

[84K]

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier. That is definitely the amp they and every other band that has 'that sound' uses today.

P.S. NB did use the Mesas in the studio. It is all over their albums.

[Rogervandeberg]

Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano

It's the amp, mostly. The hardest thing to fix in the mix is a weak distorted guitar tone.

Have your guitar professionally intonated and use fresh strings. Gee, I already said this in one topic tonight, but it's sooooo true.

Less is more with distortion. ev.x got that right. Less is also more with amps. How come the DSL Marshall kick a$$ over the 3-channel TSL's, just as the 1-channel JCM 800's are classics but the 2-channels are wack pieces of s^&t? Get rid of your dang pedals, by the way, at least for basic rhythm tracks -- don't even put 'em in between your guitar and your amp. I've seen that stupid white Boss Chromatic Tuner ruin more guitar tones...dammit, just hook it up to the line out, BUT KEEP IT AWAY FROM THE AMP'S INPUT!

Having a $$$ A/D converter will help on the recording side. Distorted guitar waveforms are verrrrry complex, and lackluster conversion really hurts you down the line with distorted guitar sounds. I'd take a Mackie and a Rosetta over an $$$ pre and a Digi for heavy guitars, but that's just me. If you have access to well-maintained $$$ gear all around (guitar, amp, mic (57's are cool, though), pre, A/D), you'll be halfway there already. And I must say a lot of the other half is TUNING and TIMING.

Thanks! I recorded the guitar dry without any affects into my sequencer, and go to reamp it. The guitarwork is and quality of the guitars are very good btw, so i am going to try some different converters while reamping! I was going to use a motu traveler, so maybe i'll use some others. Thanks for the info!


Roger

[tubehead]

One thing you can do if you really want that sound and if you have friends who'll lend you their amps.... Is borrow a Marshall JCM800 and a Mesa Dual Rectum Fryer, split your guitar signal to both record both to separate tracks. When you are done pan them away from each other in the mix, try left and right, then smile.

I have a Bogner XTC 101b, it's a 3 channel amp and sounds fantastic.

[slaves666]

All the mention of amps, and no mention of cabs and guitars. Well, Mesa Triple Rectifiers are the way to go for a head. Mesa Cabs or anything loaded with Vintage 30's speakers. Mic with a 421 and a 57. Guitars are Paul Reed Smith or Les Paul. That is the tone. Track two identical tracks and pan fairly hard.

This tone has been overused as of late. All the records have the same guitar sound. I picked up a Fender Tonemaster a few months ago and it kills. Better tone, less buzz in the top like the Mesa has. Its hand wired point to point. Cost me 1k and worth every penny. I also have a soldano and Bogner JCM 800 and Sovtek mig 60. Variety is the way to go for guitars. Also check out the Demeter ISO cab. I have one with a vintage 30 in it. Great for tracking without the bleed and produced a TIGHT sound.

[Kestral]

As other people mentioned, Stevenson amps, I've used one from a friend who has produced albums for bands that sound a lot like Nickelback (you can probably guess which ones, hint: they're Canadian and sold over 2 million records).

In any case, there are a number of amps that can pull off that time: Mesa Boogie Triple Rect is the "main" one, Stevenson does it, so does the Bogner. My friend recently switched to Diezel amps. It takes that Triple Rect crunch tone to a whole new level. For a cab it's a vintage Marshall with Celestion greenbacks.

The other thing is the micing. What I see happening is a mix of SM57 and Royer going into Neve 1073's into vintage 1176's.

And of course the single guitar parts are doubled and panned on each side.

Since we're on the subject, I'd love to know, is there a way to get that sound in a smaller combo amp? I'd love to get that sound at home without borrowing friends' gear but I like small combo amps (for example, my main amp is a Vox AC15).

[Rogervandeberg]

Thanks for the tips, ill defenately try out the tips u guys mentioned!

Originally Posted by slaves666

This tone has been overused as of late. All the records have the same guitar sound. I picked up a Fender Tonemaster a few months ago and it kills. Better tone, less buzz in the top like the Mesa has. Its hand wired point to point. Cost me 1k and worth every penny. I also have a soldano and Bogner JCM 800 and Sovtek mig 60. Variety is the way to go for guitars. Also check out the Demeter ISO cab. I have one with a vintage 30 in it. Great for tracking without the bleed and produced a TIGHT sound.

Yes i agree the tone is a bit overused, But i'd like to be able to make it myself! Especially non-musical people seem to be amazed with that sound. Making other sounds like the famous EVH "brown sound" is in my eyes easier and for the music i sometimes do much more beautiful, but
1: this track askes for a modern sound
2: non-musical people miss the punch
So im going to try the mesa/marshall/diezel/bogner thing!

Originally Posted by Kestral

The other thing is the micing. What I see happening is a mix of SM57 and Royer going into Neve 1073's into vintage 1176's.

And of course the single guitar parts are doubled and panned on each side.

Since we're on the subject, I'd love to know, is there a way to get that sound in a smaller combo amp? I'd love to get that sound at home without borrowing friends' gear but I like small combo amps (for example, my main amp is a Vox AC15).

I also discovered the healing powers of a 1176, love it!

As small amps are concerned, maybe you can give a try with a mesa Mark II combo amp. It is very small and has nice big punch!

[mogWai]

Originally Posted by everybody's x

yep but change it to E tuning and then you have the AC/DC sound
Nashville tuning the rolling stones sound

blahblah blaf

Indeed.. but seriously -

Roger, the guitar sound you are talking about is all about layers.

I would start off with 4 tracks of drop tuned guitars on a nice thick amp sound, maybe not using the treble pickup on the guitar - Pan these 4 tracks Hard L and Hard R.

Then try different amps, guitar/pickups and get a slightly more trebbly sound, create another 4 tracks and pan these inside the 'heavy wide ones'.

then any solos or riffs you can add in there with another sound - but make sure you double up every part so it doesnt stand out or.. get lost.

Oh, and when double tracking timing is really important. Try and decide on your rhythm part and stick to it.

In the mix I like to scoop out the trebblies and thicken the fatties or vice versa - depends on the tone you are after - but if you have grouped all the double tracked parts together its real easy to get a balanced guitar sound on 2 or 3 faders.

[fuzzface777]

Fellow above is right, nickleCRACK did use Mark Stephenson's amps:
stephensonamps.com

His amps are class A, use dissimilar power sections and Kevin O'Connor's power scaling (like a variac). Other a sweet amp, SPEAKER's are dang important as they WILL make huge differences on the EQ, mixing, recordings dependent on style, voicing and quality, wattage, and size (12-15 inch). Pickups are ALSO very crucial to the core sound. Nickleback and the like need High output pups (ceramics or even EMG's) for extra gain and diode-like crunch and easier playability. Mark makes a STAGEHOG class A 1 rms class A watt amp / OD-dist. tube pedal. It is base on his amps, and it does every sound. I know I have one. I think Mark is a huge fan of the old magic plexi Marshall's, but they are damn hard to find. Line 6's and the like sound pretty good infact, to degree can imitate the aforementioned. However, the last piece of info, and definitely IMO 40 % the reason, is picklecrack (sorry) and other big acts have pro studio sessions. Which means, Neve consoles, many expensive mic's, mic eq's or pre's can add color or even some cool distortion to the overall sound. Take a look at mark stephenson's webpage, to see Mutt lang's cab !!! IT is mic'd to hell and back. Mutt lang recorded ac/dc for years, is married to Shania Twain and of course produces her work.

[everybody's x]

Im sorry I thought we were telling him how to approximate this sound with his gear.

PRS>TRiple REC>Vintage 30's>57,421,royer>1073>1176>2" 6 or 8 times split wide

dump to PT

send tracks to AW, there you go SIMPLE!

[oldswirlo]

There are many ways to get the sound you desire. You've already received a lot of good advice. From my experience, if you are going to start stacking guitars (doing more than a double) they better be extremely tight. You have to take great care with each track and make sure that rythms are dead on. The second thing is that the amp matters a ton! You should look at Mesa Rectifiers, Marshall JCM 2000s, the DSL, not the TSL, and many of the Randall MTS modules can be totally amazing. Third, use a guitar with humbuckers, especailly Les Pauls and SGs and others like a really nice Iceman or something. 4th as far as mic positions and mic choices go do what ever you have to do to get amazing midrange. Most of these amps are dangerously powerful in the low end and in the sizzle. Too much of either of these, especially the sizzle will kill your guitars in the mix. I get a lot of distorted guitar tracks to mix that sound like a guitar mixed with someone blowing a hair dryer in your ear. Those big guitars you like live in the midrange they have to be awesome from 150hz to 2-3k. Almost everytime I'm tracking a Les Paul Mesa Rectifier set up, it usually looks something like the following (always adjust for the song and the part and the player).

Les Paul treble pickup>Mesa Rectifier> Modern setting with solid state rectifier and the bold setting, Master at about 9 o'clock, presence at about 10 o'clock, bass at about noon, mids about all up, treble around 1 o'clock, gain at about 1 o'clock. Going into a Marshall Cab with 25 watt greenbacks (careful you can easily blow these speakers with setup, I usually set the volume as loud as I can to the point where the speakers are on the edge of being pushed too much, its actually not that loud. These speakers have the aggressive mids that you want.) I usually start with a 57 about two inches away from the grill cloth pointed right where the dust cap meets the cone. I also use another close mic like a 409, 609, u87 or u47 up close. I take great care to make sure that they are totally phase aligned down to the sample. I also always record a room mic that is sometimes used in the mix. I'll record one set of tracks panned hard left, with the room mic hard right, and one set of tracks hard right with the room mic panned left. I often use a different high gain amp for each side, as well as a different guitar for each side. Whammo huge sound.

Sometimes I add third and fourth doubles for key moments. But only a little. I hope this helps. For a really simple song example that uses this technique, check out this band. These are not quite final mixes, we're in the middle of making this record.

www.myspace.com/linusrock Check out "Time to Go" and "Red".

Hope this helps.

[everybody's x]

nice work swirlo

those are big

[oldswirlo]

"Red" is a les paul into a recto on one side and a different les paul into a splawn modified super lead on the other.

And thanks!

[Axiz7]

Originally Posted by oldswirlo

"Red" is a les paul into a recto on one side and a different les paul into a splawn modified super lead on the other.

And thanks!

Yeah, definitly nice sounding stuff OS...And the rest of the inst. were tracked how, to what?...PT's ?

~thanks

[oldswirlo]

Scratch tracks and drums to PT at www.wirerecording.com Everything was tossed except the drum tracks, all overdubs and mix was done in Nuendo in my home studio. Thanks for checking it out.

--Will

[Rogervandeberg]

Originally Posted by oldswirlo

Scratch tracks and drums to PT at www.wirerecording.com Everything was tossed except the drum tracks, all overdubs and mix was done in Nuendo in my home studio. Thanks for checking it out.

--Will

Mogwai, fuzzface and oldswirlo, Thank u very much for the tips!

Today i'm going to expiriment with diezel and mesa stuff, with the greenback caps! I hope ill get a killer tone, just like on that very nice song "red" !!


roger