Gearslutz: What is the Best Sampler and Why?

[The Greening]

I'm not sure if this is the best forum to place this, so if you know of a forum dedicated to sampling, redirect me.

I'm looking for a good sampler that can be used for

A.) programming drum patterns in home environment
B.) triggering live sequences or sound effects on stage
C.) sending midi information to a computer to control host software (like BFD, Guru, etc)
D.) is straightforward and intuitive in it's programming

So far, most people I've encountered talk up Roger Linn machines (MPC 60, MPC 3000). However, I see that the MPC 2000 is often much less expensive, and seemingly can produce the same sounds. What are the differences between the machines? Is transporting WAV files from a computer to any of these samplers easy, or is it necessary to convert to some proprietary format?

Are there any underdogs who don't have the legacy of the MPC, but are equal or surpass?

In general of all hardware samplers when acting as a MIDI controller, are the drum pads the only acting MIDI triggers, or do any of the knobs/sliders also transmit data (I'm doubting it, but maybe).

Thanks,
Will

[Relax]

MPC all the way, wait about a month for the new 2500 to come out or go with a 60/3000. 4 midi outs is a huge plus as compared to the 2000.

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by Relax

MPC all the way, wait about a month for the new 2500 to come out or go with a 60/3000. 4 midi outs is a huge plus as compared to the 2000.

Until 2004 when Roland released the MV8000...dubbed the MPC killer...
MPC is a classic no doubt...The Roland does Classic and adds lot more modern juice to the mix...plus gives you VGA and mouse...analog bass...COSM..Roland effects etc.(Oh yes and it does read write all AKAI samples also)...

Not to mention excellent updates and upgrades...
The MPC is a classic original, it deserves it's respect and more hits have been written on it than any other machine. It just isn't the first choice in hardware sampler / sequencer anymore amongst beat makers anymore.

Respect,

[Relax]

Originally Posted by The Greening

D.) is straightforward and intuitive in it's programming

IMHO the Roland is not straightforward and initutive.

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by Relax

IMHO the Roland is not straightforward and initutive.

With a VGA screen and mouse...you take a puny rectangle and exchange it for a full 17" monitor and use a mouse for navigation...not much learning curve...

But we each work our own way...and I can totally respect that.
But whoo-hoo the MV is hot...!

At the least we now have modern alternatives to the MPC series...it was way overdue and refreshing.

AKAI just sat stagnant on development for too long, someone like Roland was bound to sweep in with all of the original AKAI requests already implemented...

Respect,

[3rd world order]

A fully loaded Akai S6000 would be my choice...



you can get one for about $800 these days... USB, ADAT lightpipe, 18 outs, 256MB, 128 voices, hard disk recorder, playback sequencer, lots of filters..

oh, and the whole front panel is a remote... slick as a mofo

[Bishbashbosh]

Personally I LOVE my MPC60..... I also own a 2000XL.... VERY different beasts....!
I got the 2000XL because of the increased memory size, and the fact that it samples at 44.1 16bit (the MPC60 is 12 bit at 40kHz!!!! not massively compatible with much stuff!!)

I use the 2000XL for live, and it works great.... massive MIDI memory, big enough sample memory etc. etc.
But if you want it for creating cool drum loops, and gritty sampling then the MPC60 (or the 3000) are the way forward.... MUCH better feel in my opinion, and I love the sound of the squished sampling.....

In my experience, the coolness of the MPC's was lost when Roger Linn stopped working with AKAI (after the 3000).... the 2000, and the 2000XL are solid, but don't have that MOJO. The 4000 is IMHO a bag of shite.... Used one on a couple of records, and felt it was way over-complicated (that's coming from an experienced MPCist) and had lost all that was good about the MPC..... it was like using Logic with a Z8 rather than an MPC (not what I like, but YMMV!)

In my experience with both Yamaha and Roland's attempts to get in on the MPC's market, they've both kinda missed the point.... yes their machines have a great spec, but don't really cut it (especially the Yamaha.... can you say 'terrible timing!?')

If it was me doing it over again, I think I'd probably go for a 3000..... best of all worlds!!!!

[Angus_FX]

You could also consider going "all-software" on the sounds side and using a simple MPC-like controller box like an M-Audio Trigger Finger, in conjunction with a software sampler / programming environment like GURU.

[mikesilence]

I like the Fairlight CMI III... tight as hell and the sound can only be described as WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Greetz,

Mike

[The MPCist]

MPC all the way!!!

But soft samplers are getting there -- Kontakt, etc...

I still like the MPCs though.... more of a 'living back in da good ole days' type thing though... ee

Also nothing beats having a machine that can perform flawlessly without any dumb OS crashes, etc....

For a sampling forum, try out MPC-tutor....

[baggysound]

i love my s6000 (the "standard" european version, that i have, is the "studio" version in the US), i have it maxed out with ram, harddisk and such, but to be honest, if he wants to trigger other devices, then it's completely out of the question...

for triggering sounds live on stage and/or sequencing i'd suggest either an mpc (4000 or 2000xl.. not so much the regular 2000, or maybe the 2500) or a mv8000.. (i have an mp-7, that's great for sequencing and controlling other devices, but it doesn't have a sampler.. that's why i have the s6000 and a s950 for, and the combo's even better, but that's a chain of devices and not portable)

[Tom Sigmond]

I think the quality of your samples are way more important then your sampler.

You can have a fancy sampler like an s6000 or mpc 3000/4000 but if you have good samples, a softsampler with a good audiocard/converters is all you need.
And besides that you can do way more in the computer with your samples (plugins andalike) and much faster as a hardware box.

Or you want some special timing or converters from some hardware sampler. Then its a specifiek choise.


gr. Tom

[warhead]

Whitman's.

War

[3rd world order]

i love my s6000 (the "standard" european version, that i have, is the "studio" version in the US), i have it maxed out with ram, harddisk and such, but to be honest, if he wants to trigger other devices, then it's completely out of the question...

I disagree. it does have a playback sequencer (you'd have to write the sequences with something else but it'll play em back) and it has enough RAM/voices/HD tracks that triggering other devices live might not be necessary... oh, and that playlist screen could fit the bill too. it's got a few things that are useful for stage cues and whatnot.... and way more capacity than anything but the newest MPC boxes.

it really depends on the style of the user.. but i could definitely "make it work".

the manual is here: http://www.akaipro.com/archives.html

see: Virtual Samples (HD tracks) in v121, Playsheet Function in v130, MIDI song file player in v200 & v210

the S6000 is cooler than you think..

[audioalchemy]

I have an MPC1000 ($999.99) and I love it. It's great for some basic sampling and sequencing. I can use it to play drums in reason etc. Plus the small fottprint makes it great for stage use. It's definitely limited comapred to some of the larger/higher priced MPC's, but for basic stuff it rocks.

[The Greening]

So, is the Roland MV8000 an MPC killer? That's a nice sentiment, but how goes programing on it's LCD say (assuming I didn't have access to a monitor)? Is it intuitive in that the manual is not needed at every turn? Is it more straight forward than an MPC 2000?

Personally, I'd like an MPC 60 for it's limited sound, an MPC 3000 for it's upgraded sound (I assume you can't adjust it's sampling frequency to get the lofi 60 sound when you want it, right?) and ease of programming, and a MPC 2000 for it's smaller footprint.

However, I'd love something that has it all. Why hasn't a company repackaged an MPC 3000 considering it's reputation?

Thanks for the views thus far. The rackmounted samplers are not that ideal for stage use, as it'd be much easier when holding a guitar to reach over and tap a pad, rather than bend down and squint to find a button.

Will

[rectifier]

Originally Posted by audioalchemy

I have an MPC1000 ($999.99) and I love it. It's great for some basic sampling and sequencing. I can use it to play drums in reason etc. Plus the small fottprint makes it great for stage use. It's definitely limited comapred to some of the larger/higher priced MPC's, but for basic stuff it rocks.

the mpc1000 is about to get much cooler with the v2 software as well, almost a new machine.

[largeunit]

a laptop with ableton live

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by The Greening

So, is the Roland MV8000 an MPC killer? That's a nice sentiment, but how goes programing on it's LCD say (assuming I didn't have access to a monitor)? Is it intuitive in that the manual is not needed at every turn? Is it more straight forward than an MPC 2000?

The LCD is large and easy to work...alot of cats do it like that.
More straight forward? That is impossible to say...Roland has a particular architecture and flow to all of thier machines. AKAI has thier own. I suspect since you aren't used to either of them, either of them will be a quick learn.
I appreciate the way Roland lays out gear...it is thoughtful.

Originally Posted by The Greenhornet

Personally, I'd like an MPC 60 for it's limited sound, an MPC 3000 for it's upgraded sound (I assume you can't adjust it's sampling frequency to get the lofi 60 sound when you want it, right?) and ease of programming, and a MPC 2000 for it's smaller footprint.

With the MV8000 you can down-sample to 8 bits....Honestly you are going to find it difficult to find a request that hasn't been implemented. This Sampler had a direct market Intent and it was on mark.

However, I'd love something that has it all. Why hasn't a company repackaged an MPC 3000 considering it's reputation?

Roland did...it's called the MV8000 No but seriously...The MV can read all of the 3000 samples, grooves etc... Plus there is way too much more features and way too much info to be had from Roland and AKAI. Make the comparision yourself.

This is the Internet...There are countless MV vs. MPC threads. Hunt them down and make an educated choice.

Good luck Will,

Respect,

[Art]

Hi all,


How does an S6000 compare to the MPC4000? Advantages of each model?

Art

[baggysound]

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

I disagree. it does have a playback sequencer (you'd have to write the sequences with something else but it'll play em back) and it has enough RAM/voices/HD tracks that triggering other devices live might not be necessary... oh, and that playlist screen could fit the bill too. it's got a few things that are useful for stage cues and whatnot.... and way more capacity than anything but the newest MPC boxes.

it really depends on the style of the user.. but i could definitely "make it work".

the manual is here: http://www.akaipro.com/archives.html

see: Virtual Samples (HD tracks) in v121, Playsheet Function in v130, MIDI song file player in v200 & v210

the S6000 is cooler than you think..

i was referring to the very first posting.. see part C (C.) sending midi information to a computer to control host software (like BFD, Guru, etc)) and that the s6000 is simply not capable of, that's why i meant it's out of the question

you say the s6000 has enough ram/voices/HD that triggering other devices might not be necessary, then you simply might not have other devices, that need to be controlled (if that's the case, then the s6000 should work fine)

i have 2 sampler and 3 sound modules, that i need to control, and there is no way, that this job could be done by only the s6000, and the sounds/possibilities of the other devices could not be "left aside" (at least when it comes to my setup)

i'm not saying the s6000 is a bad machine.. no not at all, it's an incredible device, but it's not a one-in-all solution (if you don't mind carrying multiple devices i'd suggest it hands down)

Originally Posted by Art

Hi all,


How does an S6000 compare to the MPC4000? Advantages of each model?

Art

the mpc is rather a sequencer/drum computer with an integrated sampler, the S6000 is a dedicated sampler.. they're completely different machines and usually you shouldn't compare them two.. (look at pics of them both and you'll realise right away.. that's without looking at the specs, which clears it up even more)

when it comes to sampling i prefer the s6000 but the mpc has the advantage of the pads and the sequencing..

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by rectifier

the mpc1000 is about to get much cooler with the v2 software as well, almost a new machine.

I was thinking of buying an MPC1000 secondhand. But I have some doubts about that the pads can only have 4 different velocity layers...

What does the v2 software add to the machine?

[Charlie-O]

I love my mpc 4000. I came from a 2000xl so learning it took a bit of time. it is truly diffrent from the older mpc's. This machine is basically a Mpc and a akai z8 in one! A Monster to say the least! It does jusr t about everything you need.

[Relax]

Originally Posted by GvdB

I was thinking of buying an MPC1000 secondhand. But I have some doubts about that the pads can only have 4 different velocity layers...

What does the v2 software add to the machine?

http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=38015

non akai os:
http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=38046

[Mario-C.]

YAMAHA A5000 and A4000, I loooooooooooove them ...

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by baggysound

you say the s6000 has enough ram/voices/HD that triggering other devices might not be necessary, then you simply might not have other devices, that need to be controlled (if that's the case, then the s6000 should work fine)

i have 2 sampler and 3 sound modules, that i need to control, and there is no way, that this job could be done by only the s6000, and the sounds/possibilities of the other devices could not be "left aside" (at least when it comes to my setup)

if you don't have any other setup to write sequences with, you're right... but the original poster said he had a computer for soft synths... so i assume he has some kind of usable sequencer. if you have a computer/sequencer to make a standard midi file then the s6000 will play it back fine. that was my point. I'm assuming this is just a "live" setup and there's a sequencing computer in the studio somewhere. it's not much of a leap.

ALSO, the 6000 has hard disk tracks, as many as your hard drive will support, so you can use it as a triggerable DAT machine and leave the other hardware at home. Again, this assumes you have a proper sequencer in the studio to record the tracks to begin with.. but the 6000 will play them back. the advantage here is that you can trigger them from the front panel and wouldn't need a sequencer.

my point about not needing other boxes live was that all the things other boxes do could be sampled or arranged in the studio and just played back by the 6000. 256MB is a heck of a lot of RAM... 128voices are a heck of a lot.. and the hard disk tracks have nothing to do with RAM.. they're played straight from the disk so they don't eat your RAM/voices.

again.. the original poster might not wanna work this way at all.. but it's STILL a viable alternative...

I am still blown away by the amount of stuff in this box... i'm surprised they're not more popular.

Here's another bonus.. the whole front panel is a REMOTE.. you can chain up something like 10m of serial cables and walk around with the remote triggering stuff... or sit on the couch in the back of the studio.. or.. try that with an MPC

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by Mr daisy

Hey dude. The s5000 an s6000 do not compare soundwise to the s3000 series.

Number of hit records made on s3000 series. Lots. S5000/6000 Not a lot.

maybe using the S6000 is what caused Curve to breakup then..

I think they sound great... but then again I like the sound of S1000s too. if you hate the sound, that's what the ADAT lightpipe is for. use any D/A you want or track 8 at a time right into Pro Tools. sound is one thing i've never heard anyone complain about with the 6000... buggy operating system for the first few years, yes..

honestly, if the 6000 doesn't sound as good as a 3000 I don't care. it's not like it's an Emu e64... now THERE's a horrible sounding sampler. or a K2000, which i think sounds like crap generally... even tho I have ways around that. And if i did have a problem with the sound I wouldn't recommend it.

i am addicted to the OS tho. it's so easy to drag samples from the mac desktop straight to the 6000 and keygroup em it's stupid. so call me LAZY, but not deaf.. I sent the S1000s out the door and now i relax on the couch with the 6000. Grand total for swapping out two S1000s for a fully loaded 6000: $500 & about 1000 fewer OS headaches.

I dig old samplers.. I was crazy enough to use an Emulator III rack (not the xp, the one with analog filters) for years (now try keeping that thing working properly).. and I just bought an MPC60II with the Linn software update... but the thought of storing everything on floppies scares the hell out of me... and I really don't wanna pay Roger Linn $300 so i can use a zip drive, which isnt exactly the most robust data storage format in the world.

As for your comment about hit records.. I just read something about Wyclef only using the digital out on his MPC3000 because the analog outs sound "too grainy". I dig grainy tho & who cares what Wyclef says. if I wanna get pristine I can.. because I also have a Crane Song HEDD.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a pissing match.. just wanted to clarify what the 6000 can do and why it might be more desirable to trigger hd tracks than worry about midi live.