$7600 budget (gear listed), thoughts please.

[Superbass5]

Shit, if your budget was $7630, i'd have some proper suggestions.

I kid.dfegad

Actually, you should just buy whatever poster number 7 suggests, because it'll be perfect for your situation and the music you record. Don't audition whatever he suggests first, though.

If 7 people don't respond, try:

-Great River Preamp (MOOOOOOOOOJOOOOOO!!!) - always lots for sale in the classifieds for a good price. You can push those prices down, BTW. People love them, and hate to sell them, but do.

-Shadow Hills Peptograph w/ Badass Mod (2xMOJOOOOOO!!!) Worth it just for the totally rad user manual. I love that company! So cool, like oh my god. Love the new LED's, rockin' my mixes baby!

-Any Neumann made before Sennheiser bought them and cursed Germany with black magic, rendering all products unusable by any self-respecting engineer. Man, I'm glad I bought that sweet '75 U87 before they turned into shitsticks! Maybe an american company will someday buy the Neumann logo and charge similar prices to what the 50 year old "collectors item" vintage ones go for, plus create a "prosumer" line named after famous swords. Dare to dream.

-DON'T buy a Germanium!!! They were only good for 3 months in 2005! But once they are discontinued, they'll be worth their weight in Fairchilds.

-Mercenary is the exclusive distributor of something that will change your life. BUY IT NOW!!!!

-You can't go wrong with an SM57, anything 500 series (you'll get more cred for 200 series, though), or upgrading your converters.

-Buy a bunch of "Neve" Porticos, then crack them open, and replace the boring, cheapo factory parts with some other parts that are also really cheap but will make them sound MAGIC!!!!

-Remember that any blind listening test is inherently flawed when it involves gear other people own and might feel bad about paying $7600 for, as is a double blind listening test, because I don't know what that is. No 2 performances are alike, and your subject might move a few millimeters, introducing proximity effect, uneven gain, etc, so you shouldn't even bother trying to be subjective. Or objective, for that matter.

-Everything you need to know about buying gear can be found here: Guide to Shopping for New Awesome Gear

Welcome to Gearslutz!

[warhead]

Add an SM7B to your collection, and if your mixes are already translating don't worry about monitors for now if you're mainly tracking vocals. I would want a single great preamp channel, a single great EQ, and a great compressor / limiter for tracking vocals.

That'd be about it.......unless you're solving problems which you do not state that you have any.

War

[a.beck]

Originally Posted by Superbass5

<snip post made of awesome and win>

Hahaha! Classic.

(only three more posts until you have your answer)

[warhead]

Actually, no offense guys but I'm not so sure his thread deserved to have "ridiculing all Gearslutz" written all over it. Funny response, but I think a lot of times people catch a little more hell for posting here than they deserve. I agree there are ideas that float around here that would never, EVER take root in an actual working studio...but if people can't at least lay out what they have and ask opinions about where to go, then nobody's going to come here for help.

Just an observation and not an indictment!

War

[Dubai]

if you make electronic music..(samples & synths) buy Sonic Core xite-1.

if you want the best mic...
nu47.com SWE #1

RME does not sound good, but if you like that, thats ok,
if you cannot hear that... thats another story.
RME has great drivers, and easy DSP mixer.
to improove the RME, buy a better masterclock with silver digital cables.

RME mic pres are too clean... maybe a transformer based mic pre like John Hardy M-1...

to improove the masterclock and everything else... buy a verry good power cable, and a power regenerator.
power regenerator improoves the PC, the speakers amplifiers, etc...

PS Audio Power Plant Premier recomended 100%, that money is not enough for the accuphase ps-1210.

Yamaha hs80m sound transparent,
genelec 8030a sound great.
m-audio bx8/5a Deluxe also sound great.

Originally Posted by producerjay

Do I go digital with the TLM? Or try to upgrade the microphone type all together.
Do I upgrade the monitors? Re-learn how new ones translate.
Do I upgrade the headphones?


I have been looking at the following mics:
- Neumann U 87 Ai (used eBay)
- Neumann TLM 103 D (Sweetwater)
- Josephson C715 (Mercenary Audio)
- Josephson C700A (Mercenary Audio)
- Manley Reference C (Sweetwater)
- Mojave Audio MA-200 (Sweetwater)
- Brauner VM1 (Mercenary)

I have been looking at the following monitors:
- Quested (Mercenary Audio)
- Dynaudio (Mercenary Audio)

[Blue May]

Originally Posted by Dubai

if you make electronic music..(samples & synths) buy Sonic Core xite-1.

if you want the best mic...
nu47.com SWE #1

RME does not sound good, but if you like that, thats ok,
if you cannot hear that... thats another story.
RME has great drivers, and easy DSP mixer.
to improove the RME, buy a better masterclock with silver digital cables.

RME mic pres are too clean... maybe a transformer based mic pre like John Hardy M-1...

to improove the masterclock and everything else... buy a verry good power cable, and a power regenerator.
power regenerator improoves the PC, the speakers amplifiers, etc...

PS Audio Power Plant Premier recomended 100%, that money is not enough for the accuphase ps-1210.

Yamaha hs80m sound transparent,
genelec 8030a sound great.
m-audio bx8/5a Deluxe also sound great.

Is this forum incapable of giving any helpful advice these days?

Ignore this post.. RME ad/da is fine.. not saying its the best money can buy.. but perfectly good enough to make music of release quality. the pre is boring but perfectly useable. and as far as power cables.. that really is really not going to help this guy out at the point he is at! I'm not saying it doesn't make any difference (we don' t need that debate here) but it really isn't necessary in this instance.

I would look at the following areas..

Mic, i would pick up two mics..

Shure SM7 is a good shout for rap duties, its a good workhorse that you can keep using for different applications as your collection get bigger

A hi quality LDC, there are many options here.
here are a few that i would look at for what you want.

Geffel UM92.1s (great versatile valve mic at a good price)
Neumann U87 (classic, will hold value well, not the most exciting sound.. but versatile and undoubtedly proven many times over)
AKG 414 (great all round mic at a good price, again not very exciting but very useable)

i would avoid the tlm range myself.. (YMMV)

I would also look a good pre and compressor.. as you are most likely to only need to track one source at a time.. the most cost effective would be to find one unit that can offer both...

UA 6176 (good valve pre with decent 1176 style comp included.. might be a little thick/saturated for stacked bv's a la mariah)
RND Portico 5015 (good versatile solid state pre and compressor, will stack well)
Avalon 737 (proven rnb channel strip, decent pre.. boring compressor, nice enough eq.. might be a good addition for a little bit of shimmer on the top end for that rnb style.. (stacks well for bvs)

With the rest of the money you could go down a few different routes..
i would suggest either a good ssl style mixbus compressor (Al Smart C1 or C2 would work) these type of compressors (once you get used to using it properly) will undoubtedly help get that tight punch rnb sound.. Or maybe just buy a few additional soft synths / plug ins.. i would suggest the arturia collection of synths.. they are good emulations of vintage synths that can be a great place to start getting ideas for songs.. your probably covered with the waves bundle but i really can recommend the sonnox bundle.. the eq is great and has a smooth top end.. the compressor is brilliant for that really up front rnb/pop sound.. and when your adding all that 16k onto your vocal you may need a great deesser which the sonnox one is!

Hope this helps..

Oh and if you do need a little more weight from your speakers i would suggest trading up to the krk vxt8s as the leaning curve wont be too sharp.


good luck

[amanitas]

I've got a pair of Dynaudio BM5s and I like them - definitely a huge improvement over the MAudios I had before.

Can't go wrong with most of the mics and pres you listed there. You could do a lot worse than a U87.

But I think one channel of super money Preamp is probably your best bet. If you are doing hip hop/rnb the classic go to pre is an Avalon. I have one. I love it on certain things, but not everything. But it's great for vocals, and the EQ is really nice - turning up the EQ at 32k is like the Boys II Men knob or something - just instant classic 90s rnb/hiphop vox with that super sheeny top end.

[jdier]

I do not do the same type of music you do and I am not a superstar recording engineer, but looking at your list the things that I would really like to add would be:

SM7 - Just such a great mic and such a great value.

RNLA - I really like this unit when I am tracking louder vocals with the SM7. I am sure there are much nicer compressors out there, but I have only owned Meek, RNC, Nady and RNLA... and for me, the RNLA was the best for vocals. I like the RNC for drums a lot.

Great River Preamp - I am sure there are loads of great preamp options, but the Great River is my nicest and I sure like it a bunch. After tracking the band, everything else goes through the GR.

If you are still looking for mics, I have found that my Senn421, RE20 and AKG414 provide a great swatch of choices.

I also use RME (FF800) for conversion so we have that in common!

Good luck and have fun.

[manman]

you r bugging you can buy
used gears

RME 800 -900
414 AKG 500
YAMAHA NS10 or/and Dynaudio BM15passive 500+800
amps 300+300 something like bryston 4b etc.
add avalon mic preamp $1200 and you are ready to go.

so far 5500.

[solidstate]

Originally Posted by producerjay

I have read through the threads that came up with similar titles, but the budgets were lower than mine. My current gear is the following:

- KRK V6 (active/pair)
- Alesis MKII (passive/pair)
- Lexicon iONIX
- RME Fireface 400
- TLM 103
- Waves Platinum (API, SSL)
- Sony 7506
- i7Core, 12GB Ram, 2TB, Vista64

My thoughts:
Do I go digital with the TLM? Or try to upgrade the microphone type all together.
Do I upgrade the monitors? Re-learn how new ones translate.
Do I upgrade the headphones?

I produce/record mainly R&B, but occasionally do some hip hop. The tracks I have posted on myspace are recorded with the TLM through an RME. If people hear my music first, they might be able to help me into a right direction to go with the budget.

Jay Carls [Producer] of Badmouth Productionsâ„¢ on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos
www.youtube.com/badmouthproductions

I have been looking at the following mics:
- Neumann U 87 Ai (used eBay)
- Neumann TLM 103 D (Sweetwater)
- Josephson C715 (Mercenary Audio)
- Josephson C700A (Mercenary Audio)
- Manley Reference C (Sweetwater)
- Mojave Audio MA-200 (Sweetwater)
- Brauner VM1 (Mercenary)

I have been looking at the following monitors:
- Quested (Mercenary Audio)
- Dynaudio (Mercenary Audio)

I haven't been looking at Pre's/A/D Converters because the RME sounds good. Whatever ends up left over is being used for promotions, marketing (adding to the pot). I tried to be clear on the equipment I have, my thoughts, and what I have been looking at. My goal is that you listen to my music, and let me know what you think I should upgrade/spend money on to make better. I am still new, and very thankful for your opinions, thoughts, and suggestions.

Jay Carls

Man this list sucks!!!

Where is the room treatment??

Treat your room with some GIK panels and bass traps. Add a sub to the KrK V6. Get a beats by dre studio to make beats(lon pun intended) and a couple of 7506 for mixing/tracking. Get a imac+logic+duet+euphonix controllers if you like the hands on approach. DITCH the 103. Get a 737+u87+realtrap PVB and get over with it! Ditch everything else!! You don't need no manley mic to record a good singer singing a good melody. Nor a neve to record properly. The room tone itself it's far more important! Treat, treat, treat your room!!! Treat the area behind the singer with some GIK screen panels as well.

Check GIK or realtraps websites and get educated on the subject Is fasinating.. And it really helps to make your music sound better!

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by a.beck

Hahaha! Classic.

(only three more posts until you have your answer)

do you start counting at the OP or is the first response counted as #1?

[producerjay]

Originally Posted by solidstate

Man this list sucks!!!
You don't need no manley mic to record a good singer singing a good melody. Nor a neve to record properly.

Thanks for your thoughts. This list reflects the best quality I could afford with the budget I had 3 years ago. My room has treated walls (sorry for not mentioning that). Ditching all my current gear is not a great answer for me, even if it is the reality. The RME might not be the greatest pre- but the A/D converters do the job. I am not a hardware guru, and need something with minimal buttons/switches if I go that route. That is why I purchased the Waves software; I could adjust presets to ear and I'm done. As far as mics go the best I've ever heard was a Neumann. So I purchased the only Neumann I could afford, then I bought an KMS105 for live performances. The $7600 saved was originally for a Sony C800g. But instead of upgrading one component, I was thinking I should ask the pros what they would do to the list I have to make it well rounded for the budget I have now. Next monday the budget grows to $8500. I will continue saving every 4wks, until I read through all of the posts and do research on the gear suggested. I would like to go all digital if possible, so I don't have to mess with hardware as stated above. Thanks SS.

Jay Carls

[AlexK]

+1 for the conversion in the RME. I'm a BIG fan of RME's A/D and D/A (I bought a Fireface 800 mainly due to the sound of the converters in comparison to Apogee).

+1 for room treatment - it's not only a vital part of any recording chain, but it's also a incredibly important in terms of listening (not only for monitoring purposes, but also for listening to music).

I'm a big fan of Adam monitors, and would always suggest you try having a listen to some A7s - there's good reason behind the hype surrounding them.

I've heard the BM5A and the BM6A and really, really didn't like either. In fact I found them quite unpleasant and clouded to listen to.

[Johnny Paez]

Get a u87
a blackface 1176 comp
and a gamma preamp


u can play with this stuff in differents things, voice, instruments and yor loops

regards

[ljt]

You owe it to yourself to at least consider a Pearlman TM1. Beyond that real pre will do a world of wonders. If you could get your hands on a used Pendulum MDP-1 that would rock!

Best of luck with your process!!

[Dirty Halo]

There's going to be endless great suggestions on what best to buy, but more valuable than that, BUY USED!!!

You'll get WAAAY more bang for your buck and you can buy much better gear for your money. I swear by it

(And to the post above, I agree, a Pearlman is massive bang for your buck, a used one even more so... although, that's a tough one to find used.)

-andrews

[anguswoodhead]

MC77 MC77 Limiting Amplifier / Purple Audio, LLC
BeesNeez Jade Bees Neez Microphones
RME is fine but clock it with a BLA Micro Clock II Black Lion Audio | Black Lion Audio Micro Clock mk2 (make sure you buy at least 1 of there premium word clock cables also)
Avalon M5 Avalon Preamplifiers, M5 Specs & Details
Focal Solo 6's Solo6 Be.Focal Professional studio monitor loudspeakers
with a Sub Sub6. Focal Professional studio monitor loudspeakers (we are talking about R'n'B and Hip Hop so you need to hear the bottom end)
UAD2 Duo Flexi UAD-2 DUO Flexi DSP Accelerator Card | Analog and Digital Audio Products and Plug-Ins | Universal Audio (best plugins money can buy IMHO)
ASUS Mainboard with Intel chipset, Intel CPU, 8 Gig of Ram is enough, XP or Windows 7 (not Vista), Enterprise Edition HDD's etc.
Extreme Isolation Headphones EX-29 Headphones (they don't sound the best but the isolation is awesome especially for artists who like there headphones LOUD)

Sell everything else to fund your upgrades - LOL

Oh - I quite like the SSL converters and for the price of 24 I/O capable of 96k nothing else comes close.

Hope that helps.

[solidstate]

Originally Posted by producerjay

Thanks for your thoughts. This list reflects the best quality I could afford with the budget I had 3 years ago. My room has treated walls (sorry for not mentioning that). Ditching all my current gear is not a great answer for me, even if it is the reality. The RME might not be the greatest pre- but the A/D converters do the job. I am not a hardware guru, and need something with minimal buttons/switches if I go that route. That is why I purchased the Waves software; I could adjust presets to ear and I'm done. As far as mics go the best I've ever heard was a Neumann. So I purchased the only Neumann I could afford, then I bought an KMS105 for live performances. The $7600 saved was originally for a Sony C800g. But instead of upgrading one component, I was thinking I should ask the pros what they would do to the list I have to make it well rounded for the budget I have now. Next monday the budget grows to $8500. I will continue saving every 4wks, until I read through all of the posts and do research on the gear suggested. I would like to go all digital if possible, so I don't have to mess with hardware as stated above. Thanks SS.

Jay Carls

Hey no problem JC I just thought i should mention one of the most overlooked topic in project studios.. If you get the room acoustic covered we can start talking about gear. I actually have a C800G and is by far my favorite mic for RnB. T pain use it, akon use it, R kelly use it, mary use it you name it! However you definitely need to pair it with a dark/fat pre(1073 works best IMO).. The only bright pre that actually works in my experience is the 737. You can easily stack 20 vocals and it still sound good. So 1073 for leads and 737 for BVs. The sony works 90% of the times but when it doesn't work or you just want a different tone, you need to have an 87 laying around the studio. With this level of mics you need to have the same level of pre amps, conversion and compression. And no, rme and plug ins won't do any justice to the sony. Apogee AD/DAX, cl1b/1176, neve 10xx, 737 and you definitely need better monitors if you upgrade all the above.. The things is are you making money with your studio..? I mean REAL money not couple of hundreds you got recording your buddy. If you don't, then don't spend all this money in audio gear!! Get U87/737 off ebay, a duet an imac and logic. That's by far the best $$-quality ratio you can get. And don't listen all the haters.. A U87/737 will get you a decent sound on almost EVERY singer/rapper out there! The apogee stuff,even the cheaper duet,smokes the RME any day. Just get a demo of the apogee converters in YOUR studio next to the RME. Let your hears be the judge. Anyway man you got the point. Don't blow your money on a supa xxxxpensive mic or pre or whatever if you are not making money with it.. I hope this help!

[gian]

I am with Angus on the mic choice.

I have owned both TLM103 and Jade.

The Jade wins, by heaps and it is cheaper.

Don't buy the TLM103, I can't say it strongly enough, if all you have to spend is about $1400,

get the Studio or Producer Series Jade
Studio Series
Studio Series - Jade SS - BeesNeez Microphones on-line shopping

OR

the Producer Series Jade
Producer Series Microphones - Jade Tube Microphone - BeesNeez Microphones on-line shopping

OR get the Studio Series Arabella
Studio Series - Arabella GT - BeesNeez Microphones on-line shopping

[producerjay]

Thank you to those who actually gave me helpful advice. I did some more research throughout the past years and purchased the following:

Interface:
BLA mod Liquid Saffire 56

Converters:
BLA White Sparrow MKII

Monitors:
GENELEC S30C

Summing:
DANGEROUS 2BusLT

Isolation Booth:
SE Reflexion Filter
Miktek C7 Condenser Microphone
Avantone CV12 Tube Microphone

Keyboards:
Yamaha MOX8
Yamaha W7

My new budget this year is doubled. I have $15,000 to invest into the company. I know I don't have a really large mic locker, but I'm thinking of buying a 500 series rack and populating it with pres. I would like to hear your thoughts on what I should purchase next. My control room is treated, isolated power etc.

[Sqye]

.

Congrats, man.

You got some nice gear there.

You definitely should be able to make some good sounding recordings.

And congrats on the new budget - hope you're taking on too much debt!

Good luck, and happy recording!


.

[producerjay]

Originally Posted by Sqye

.

Congrats, man.

You got some nice gear there.

You definitely should be able to make some good sounding recordings.

And congrats on the new budget - hope you're taking on too much debt!

Good luck, and happy recording!


.

Thanks. I worked really hard at selling production. Overall I made a really good amount of money this year. I was going to invest it in oil, but decided to invest it back in myself.

[AwTAC]

Originally Posted by producerjay

I was going to invest it in oil

history has left out the part about Grand Funk Railroad making a bajillion dollars and at a moment in time being in the top five of attendance records next to beatles and led zeppelin. They made a mountain of money. A mountain. And their manager/producer invested it in oil and lost it all. Or so the story goes. Still, oil will always make you wonder who shot J. R.

[producerjay]

Originally Posted by producerjay

Thank you to those who actually gave me helpful advice. I did some more research throughout the past years and purchased the following:

Interface:
BLA mod Liquid Saffire 56

Converters:
BLA White Sparrow MKII

Monitoring:
GENELEC S30C
CRANESONG Avocet 7.1

Summing:
DANGEROUS 2BusLT

Isolation Booth:
SE Reflexion Filter
Cathedral Pipes Notre Dame Tube Microphone
Miktek C7 Condenser Microphone
Avantone CV12 Tube Microphone

Keyboards:
Yamaha MOX8
Yamaha W7

My new budget this year is doubled. I have $27,000 to invest into the company. I know I don't have a really large mic locker, but I'm thinking of buying a 500 series rack and populating it with pres. I would like to hear your thoughts on what I should purchase next. My control room is treated, isolated power etc.

[campers]

- KRK V6 (active/pair)
- Alesis MKII (passive/pair)

are not the best monitor for mixing.

I would recommend to you to upgrade real professional monitor, Generec, NS10m, Barefoot etc. You don't need 2 different monitors, instead, what you need is boombox or computer speaker in addition to the serious monitor.

[dubmunkey]

Originally Posted by campers

- KRK V6 (active/pair)
- Alesis MKII (passive/pair)

are not the best monitor for mixing.

I would recommend to you to upgrade real professional monitor, Generec, NS10m, Barefoot etc. You don't need 2 different monitors, instead, what you need is boombox or computer speaker in addition to the serious monitor.

Having owned both alesis and krk v6 i would recommend neither



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